Both:

- commence service November 1

- will serve only New York Kennedy and London Stansted

- are all business class


One is MAXjet (www.maxjet.com)

the other is Eos (www.eosairlines.com)

Not for everyone, of course, but I just priced-out fares on Maxjet and most dates through Sept. '06 can be had for $1558 + tx/fees. That's not bad for transatlantic business class r/t.

This is the article where I read about them:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/...on/trfreq7.php

Nice piece o' news, nimrod...

Best wishes,

Rex

The following commentary is only about EOS as I have been following the company since their first announcment earlier this year.

It took them some time to get off the ground and now it appears they will start on 10/18. The original starting date(s) were back in spring of this year, then 2 or 3 more announced dates throughout the summer and now it looks like they finally got it going. If anything I have to give their marketing people lots of credit. All their moves were reported in some paper or on some TV news everytime they thought they were ready.

Will this fly? I doubt it. Many obstacles to cross.

First and foremost. The majors will match their fares to try to "kill" them. The company has some nice cash reserves but nothing that could carry them in a long battle. Second, it's only 1 flight a day. The business person paying business fares wants and needs total freedom and multiple flight choices. If the meeting gets delayed, s/he knows there are more flights to catch without penalties. Airline alliances assure that. EOS on it's own can't. Third, limited number of aircraft. Something goes wrong mechanically with one and the passenger is screwed. Fourth, the fares don't seem that low. EOS has a special, limited, first come first serve fares of $5,000 R/T. That's about average for all the majors, which offer many other perks, including but not limited to, mileage program, status, lounge access, etc.etc.. And finally, the airport(s). Obviously JFK is a good choice, but Standsted for a business person coming across the big pond? don't think so, unless they offer some kind of dedicated transfer system to central London. Somebody paying $5,000 plus does not want to wait and then sit on a train or a bus for 1 hour plus after their long flight.

Just my .02 worth.... YMMV

I do not work in the airline industry, so what do I know?????

"I do not work in the airline industry, so what do I know?????"

A whole lot, obviously. You're one of our more knowledgeable airline experts. Everything you say sure makes sense to me, too.

I just looked at MaxJet and it seems to have a little better business plan IMHO.

EOS is actually a first class cabin throughout, but the fares reflect that. MaxJet is a true business class cabin throughout and their fares reflect that. (about $1800 for the dates I've checked)

Still, the majors will match them, dollar for dollar as long as it takes.

Limited schedule.

Standsted???

and finally, and this goes for both airlines. What about connections? Either their buisness plan is based on the NYC and LON market ONLY or they are hoping for miracles.

and it goes without saying, but the oil prices are driving every airline nuts, and the slow winter season has not begun yet....


but, at least in the case of MaxJet, this will be the perfect test for all the people that were/are posting here tha stated that if business class was only marginally higher then economy, they would be willing to pay. Assuming the average economy these days is around $800, then $1800 seems fair for business class comfort. I want to see all those people stand up and be counted now.

<<Standsted???

and finally, and this goes for both airlines. What about connections? Either their buisness plan is based on the NYC and LON market ONLY>>

Are you kidding?

From Stansted, you can get to virtually every square inch of Europe with one plane ride and a fairly short train rode.

Ryanair, my friend - - and so much more...

Best wishes,

Rex

I don't know that people riding an all-premium service airline to STN are going to be that keen on getting on easyJet to finish their trips to Italy. But STN is not that inconvenient to central London or a lot of reasonably prosperous suburbs north and east of London, or Cambridgeshire or East Anglia. If anything, being able to avoid LHR will be a huge plus to numerous London O/D pax. I think they'll do okay if they're sufficiently capitalized and don't have any big operational problems.

I wish them well.

<<I don't know that people riding an all-premium service airline to STN are going to be that keen on getting on easyJet to finish their trips to Italy...>>

Well, I might be their demographic, or at least previously would have been. As a small business owner, in need of travel to Europe a few times a year, I would have been quite interested in a more modestly priced &quot;premium class&quot; option for the transatlantic segment. I'm not talking about &quot;spending someone else's money&quot; (i.e., an employer - - I <i><b>was</b></i> my own employer) - - I'm saying that people who are spending their own money, but want to make the most of a short trip to Europe.

And lots of boomers will fill these seats as well, even on leisure travel.

The plan sounds like step one towards more innovative business models in transatlantic air travel. Many of them will be successful.

So, <b>Rex</b> I'm a self-employed business owner. My main supplier or buyer is located in Munich. My business is located in Indianapolis. What do I do?

Buy a cheap economy ticket to JFK, pay EOS $5000(just an introductory fare) for a VERY comfortable flight to Standsted, and then buy another cheap flight on RyanAir.....with possibilities of missed connections, luggage problems......

or


do I but a discounted all in one first class ticket with one connection through JFK for about the same total $, get lounge access, earn enough miles for a free domestic trip just from this one trip, or save them for a later, around the world in first class trip on some world class airlines, and be treated as royalty through out the entire trip.....


hmmmm, let's see, what will I do?????

Yup, RyanAir ir is???????????????

$5000 and $1558 are two different things.

I'm not saying it would be the preferred mode of travel for all North American points of origination, nor all europe destinations. Your example points out the logistical difficulty, and many people will have similar disincentives to fly via JFK-STN.

But they WILL get customers, I predict. Their success or failure SHOULD depend on how well they execute, as much as anything.

And for what it's worth - - you and I know this, no doubt, but other readers here may not - - the preferred source for connecting flight info is whichbudget.com and a one-minute check there shows that Easyjet is the carrier of choice for STN-MUC - - not Ryanair.

There are a number of astute investors in both these airlines, EOS and MaxiJet, and I would expect they have done their homework.

A few years ago, my son who was then working for a small public company in the pollution control industry flew twice from Dallas to Paris. The first class flight was $10,000 and business was $7,500. Flights to London would have been somewhat cheaper. The savings from using the new airlines could be 4 to 8 thousand dollars from current rates.

Savings per flight of that magnitude could be used, for example, to lower a bid price to win a contract, brought to the bottom line, shared with the employee, pay the expenses for a day early arrival so the employee would be better prepared or any combination.

Is their success guaranteed? No. But neither was JetBlue, Southwest, Ryan, Easyjet a sure thing.

I suspect that a lot of &quot;business class travelers&quot; are doing so on the company's dollar..perhaps not all of them, but a good many.

I doubt those people are going to fly to Stansted and then take Ryanair or any other &quot;air&quot; to Munich when they can fly business class direct to Munich from new York or elsewhere, and be ready for that first business meeting later in the same late morning.

But I don't work for the airlines, either, so what do I know????..that is these ventures fail they didn't capture the market they THOUGHT was out there.

<b>jsmith</b>,

Wasn't there an all business airline out of Vegas that failed? It was backed up by few of the major casinos. The idea was that the honeymooners, mid-level gamblers would pay to fly in style to the gambling mecca from many major points of US. It failed miserably.

Midwest Airlines, still flying, but their growth curtailed, the all domestic business like cabin failed again.

Your comparison to succesful LCCs is off base. We're not talking about airlines that market to ALL people, we're talking about airlines that NEED a very specialized and THE VERY limited consumer base.

I'm one of the crazy people that still invests in the airline industry, but I would be very reluctant to invest with these 2. A very unproven idea. It may work, but it's a long shot at best.

I'll say it again, MaxJet has a better chance of survival whereas EOS is really a very looooong shot IMHO.

Speaking of high class airlines, what happened to Hooter's Air?

&lt;&lt;Speaking of high class airlines, what happened to Hooter's Air?&gt;&gt;

I think that they are alive and well.

http://www.hootersair.com/destinations/route_map/

I saw one of their planes on the tarmac tonight in Louisville, for some reason. I don't know why.

The cumulative profits of the passenger airline industry since its inception is zilch. Hardly an industry, AAFrequentFlyer, in which to invest. Speculate, yes.

You fault my comparison to the LCCs and say &quot;an all business airline out of Vegas that failed? It was backed up by few of the major casinos. The idea was that the honeymooners, mid-level gamblers ---&quot;. Honeymooners, mid-level gamblers, business airline don't belong in the same sentence. Sounds to me like a flawed model.

Some enlighteded companies today offer employees a percentage of the savings if they fly a lower cost seat to their destination. I daresay many employees would accept an offer of $1000 (25% of a $4000 savings) for a slightly less convenient limo ride from Stansted than from Heathrow or for a connecting flight to Aberdeen for the oilrigs in the North Sea.

Not all innovations work and we won't know immediately if either, both or neither of these are viable. The entrepreneurs of EOS and MaxJet are using their own money. They are not asking for audience participation and government assistance. They are practicing &quot;creative destruction&quot;.

You are incorrect on your assumption about my investments. I do invest and I also do speculate. My investments are usually short term and have been profitable, my speculating is done with some of the US legacy airlines, especially with AA and it has been pretty good to me.

When I said business, I meant business class type seats and roominess.

Apologies for not making myself clear.

My point about the airline had nothing to do with business types, only with the claim by many that if they could purchase a reasonable business class ticket, they would. It has been proven over and over again that we as a whole, became the Wal-Mart/McD society.

We want to make as much as we can, but &quot;everybody else should work for pennies because I hate spending&quot;.

I just don't see too many vacation travelers running to EOS for their yearly European travel needs and very few purchasing a ticket on MaxJet.

Besides, anybody that thinks that all the business/first class seats on the majors go for $5000-$10,000 per, they are very much mistaken. Corporations have deals with the majors. The business seat could be had as low as $1000 up to $3000, depending how much business the corporation is giving the airline and the first class cabin could be had for under $4000. Combine that with the employees earning some perks (as in free vacations), schedule redundancy, so the employees don't have to sit around hotel bars wasting the company time waiting for tomorrow's flight, and very favorable airports to fly from and to, I will stand by my prediction.

EOS(with the current business plan) - a year at best, MaxJet - possibly longer.

Lufthansa has an all business class planes flying between NYC/ORD and Dusseldorf/Munich. The cities are the financial centers for both countries, Lufthansa has the financial means to keep this going, yet, that particular division of LH has not been profitable and it has been about 2 or more years running.

I too wonder how they will survive more than a few years. I've taken many transatlantic business class flights and have never paid more than $3500 (or rather, the company buying the ticket never paid more than that). In the last few years, I've flown biz between Europe and NYC for as little as $1200 RT. This Christmas, I could get a RT biz class fare on BA between London and Orlando for about $3000. (It's tempting given how much cattle class seats cost for that same period--about $1300 on the dates I want--but I probably will split the diff and fly PE). Corporate travel is often arranged through a company's travel agency and they are more likely to go with the established carriers than risk their rep on a newcomer.
There is also the whole FF miles issue.
Is MGM Air still around?

BTilke, when my son flew twice to Paris to connect with chartered flights to an oil refinery in Algeria, there was no wiggle room. His company had to pay the top rate asked by AA and they had to pay $10,000 and $7,500. The $10,000 was because there were no business class available. You can't compare a long planned trip to an emergency. Just try calling to get a flight tommorrow.

That's only true if your son's company has no contract with AA.

For example, AA has RDU-LGW route. You now why? Because they have a contract with one of the biggest UK pharmacautical corporations with US main branch office and research center in Raleigh-Durham area.
Trust me - the company does not pay anywhere near the retail fare for J or F or for that matter for Y.
There are tens, if not hundreds of these type of agreements and as I said, the price these companies pay depends on how much business they give AA.
A one time last minute purchase will make AA very happy as they will charge top dollar. I don't ubderstand why you are having a hard time with the concept?