cathies

I'm Australian and I understand the thinking behind these sorts of trips, although I don't agree at all. A friend that other poster is completely nuts, please don't think all Aussies are like her/him .

I know one thing for sure, that before taking on an overseas trip like this, you have absolutely no idea how exhausting it can become. Tstead, you are lucky to have the luxury of quite a long trip with gives you the opportunity to stay put for a week or more in a couple of places. Please do listen to the advice you will receive on this thread, the people posting are experienced travellers (much more than me). If I had as much time as you I wouldn't do less than 4 nights anywhere which gives you time to move from one city to the next, find hotels, check in and then have plenty of time to explore.

Can I also suggest that your plan to have 2 nights in Venice equates to 1 full day. I know others who've been to Venice for one day and without exception they don't like it. Consider skipping Milan and allocate that time to Venice.

So, now it's time to tweak this itinerary and slow it right down. You'll have a much better time.

dreamon

The first time I travelled to Europe I went for 5 months, travelling from the UK to Greece and back again, and had the BEST time. And we moved on every few days, whenever we felt like it (pre-Schengen and pre-internet bookings). Each time we have visited Europe since, we've concentrated on a much smaller area and with longer stays in each place.

I agree with Isabel that using a town as a base is a good idea. You can get up early and get 'home' late without having to pack up and move hotels (remember you can't usually check in until mid-afternoon).

I also would be tempted to have 5 nights in Florence and do day trips rather than split Tuscany into two stops. Much of Tuscany can be visited easily by train and bus. You could throw in an organised day tour if you really wanted. And add a day to Venice.

Have you chosen Milan to break the journey rather than an interest in the city itself? If so, then I'd consider somewhere smaller on the train line.

As an alternative to Nice and Milan, you could consider dropping them and heading to Provence via Switzerland and then head south to Barcelona. However, this would be longer and only worthwhile if you want to visit Switzerland. From where were you planning on flying to Barcelona? If you have a car in Provence, I would prefer a smaller place than Avignon. Agree that St Remy is a good suggestion.

I avoid one night stops if I can but sometimes they just happen.

Have a great time!

janisj

I'd cut you destinations by at least 1/3

Not that you couldn't make it to all those places . . . But every single time you move from one city to the next eats up a minimum of 1/2 a day and often the best part of a FULL day. Do you <i>really</i> want to spend such a HUGE % of your 2.5 months moving from place to place and exploring train stations? You have 25 stops -so that alone will use up nearly 20 days/3 weeks total.

Plus as mentioned above - 2 nights nets you 1 free day, 3 nights = 2-ish days, 4 nights = about 3 days and so on.

If it was me and I had the luxury of 2.5 months - I want to get to know fewer places in a bit more depth and actually <i>remember</i> more. I don't mean staying a week in 10 different places (though I'd personally LOVE that) - but at least 4 or 5 nights in most cities.

On a shorter trip one can handle more 1-3 days stopovers - but in 2.5 months they will all become one big blur.

cathies

Oh my goodness, a correction to my earlier post..... 'A friend' should read Adrienne.

rhon

So tstead, it is back to you. It might help people here if you gave an indication of your age group. e.g. young married couple, empty nesters but still working, retired couple looking to see the world. This can make a difference on what we advise. For example, we are a late fifties couple, DW retired and DH still working with a swag of LSL to use before retirement. So we have time to "slow travel " and hope to be able to do so for a while yet. But young couple " pre family/mortgage" is different.

Lots of people have given you good advice on how to make this a trip to remember. Some have been able to give very detailed tips to " tweak " your trip. I hope you do take some of this advice and slow down your trip a bit. In the end we want you to remember the places you are visiting, not just packing up, getting to the airport/train station, finding the new hotel. Hey we have a bag full of laundry. To day is Monday so it must be...

Good luck and happy travels.

adrienne

cathies - LOL Don't worry - I don't generalize about people/cultures, etc. It did seem funny that there were several threads about Australians zooming all over the continent and wanting to do so, no matter what advice they're given but this type of travel is not limited to Australians.

tstead - no matter where your trip takes you I sincerely hope you enjoy it.

suze

<but this type of travel is not limited to Australians>

No, but it sure does show up often enough on this forum to have formed a 'stereotype' in some people's minds. Often reading overly-ambitious itineraries, I'm thinking 'bet they're aussies' (and turns out to be true -lol)!

jane1144

I would second the advice on slowing down a tad and offer one other suggestion. PACK LIGHT! I would go with carry on luggage only and plan to layer for weather changes. Dragging luggage for a trip of this length will be exhausting. It is easy to do laundry say, once a week, and it offers a chance of meeting a few locals at the laundromat. Packing light was the best advice I got from this board and I was so glad I listened!

lavandula

I would probably agree with the stereotype of Aussies taking extended trips and packing a lot (too much?) in. I'm Australian myself and I think this sort of travel is encouraged by the fact that a) Aussies can get large tranches of time off with generous yearly leave arrangements (usually 4 weeks a year, not including public holidays) and long service leave and b) long school / university holidays between December and January. Many other cultures do not get this sort of leave. Aussies are lucky in that regard.

I agree though that maybe a few bases built in to the present trip might allow tstead and spouse an opportunity to catch breath and do laundry (yes, you do have to think about that when you've got extended travels because you can never take enough clothes for 10 weeks). Do build in some breaks. Why not pick a base like Antwerp in Belgium (and really, Brussels is fine in my book), and see the whole country from there? It's small enough that you can do that. Most people only visit the cities and towns in Flanders and they are easily accessible from Antwerp.

Have a nice trip, it's a wonderful opportunity.

Lavandula

dreamon

Without wishing to be argumentative, I think that Australians don't travel any faster when visiting Europe than any other nation (e.g USA, Canadians, Japanese). The difference is that it takes us so long to get there (usually 30hrs of travel time plus) and so much money (minimum $2000 just for the flights over) that we tend to go for longer, staying in more places. When we list those places it seems like we're buzzing around the continent when that doesn't always give an accurate picture.

Of course there's a temptation to see a lot, especially on the first trip, but most people I know restrict themselves to one or two countries or regions when travelling.

I've lost count of the number of itineraries I've seen on this forum and others where people want to visit 4 countries in 2 weeks. They're generally not Aussies. I'm not really keen on this stereotyping.

rhon

As dreamon has said, there are heaps of itineraries on forums where people want to visit several countries in two weeks or do Paris, Normandy, and Provence in a week. And yes, we are very lucky here in Australia as we do seem to have more generous annual leave than other places. And yes we do take longer trips for reasons already stated.

For me, a two or three week trip with two to four night stays in places might be fine, but keeping up this pace for ten weeks would be too much. We would need to slow down. And I think we must be lazy, but the logistics of organising a trip like this - all the transport, the transfers, the accomodation etc would just be too hard for me. But everyone is different. What suits us could possibly [ and probably would ] bore someone else to tears. In the end what really matters is that people come home having had what they consider to be a great trip. Might not be my idea or your idea of a great trip. tstead and partner will probably have a wonderful time and that is all that matters.

crazyfamilyof4

how is the trip planning going so far? If you would like some links let me know but most places we are choosing are for my family of four. But still reasonably priced.

tstead

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your comments, critisisum (constructive) and advice. We both appreciate it very much and will take it on board.

As mentioned above this is our first trip to Europe and we really want to grab a sample of what is on offer, hence the series of short stays in some areas. We are young (both 26) and really want to do this sort of holiday before children etc which is another reason for the fast pace. We have every intention of coming back (probably for a shorter timeframe) and seeing things in more depth. As mentioned by a few people the 30 hour flight and expense of that also plays a part in the craming of so many places into the timeframe we have.

Ive noticed that there isnt much love for Brussels, why is that? It looks absolutely stunning from the research I have done.

crazyfamilyof4

I'm not sure about Brussels but mum came back recently and said Bruge was much better but again she wished she hadn't gone there but had added those days to one of the other places.

I think as long as you have one full day in each place you go you will be fine. exhausted but fine.

I know I am certainly no expert but I thought you had done a great job planning it out! My limited thoughts -

6 nights in Rome - great

3 nights in Florence -maybe combine with the countyside place in tuscany. it's also only 1hr 35min on train from Rome so you could combine it on either side. I loved Florance but was able to see it through day trips etc

3 nights in the Tuscan countryside. (will hire a car to see the countryside)

2 nights in Venice - I'm not the most positive about here . . . so I won't make comment

2 nights in Milan - if you can make this longer - just so you could take a day trip to the lakes . .etc 4/5 days would be wonderful for you

2 nights in Nice - coming from Aus and our beaches you will wonder what all the fuss is about but yes worth a stop off.

6 nights in southern France (split between Avignon and Aix en Provence, will hire a car for this region) - sounds great - we can swap notes - doing the same thing

5 nights in Barcelona - do you have an idea of where to stay - I was told El Born - so I've booked there

2 nights in Bilbao
2 nights in San Sebastian

5 nights in Paris - Great

4 nights in the Loire Valley (will hire a car for this portion) - Excellent

2 nights in Reims - we are just going to do a train trip from Paris instead and stay in paris for longer - just thought ...we really just want to check out the champagnes

4 nights in Brussels

4 nights in Amsterdam - We LOVED it here . . biggest surprise ever . .enjoy!

The rest of your trip I can't really comment on berlin and Prague are the same amount of time that we have allocated for our trip but we aren't going to the other places. I loved Munich for the beer and large clock when I was last there and Vienna I remember being pretty but in saying that I wouldn't be disappointed if I hadn't seen it etc. SO if you were to take off the 12days and just go to Munich and put those days into other places you might find it works better for you.

In my limited opinion ... I love ITALY ...No matter what I have seen I have loved and if I could do it kid free in the Summer I would love to do the South of Italy! It's really not a place you can go to with young kids unfortunately for us so I would suggest you do that while there rather then Vienna etc. To me that part of your trip might be a bit boring in comparison to the rest. OTHERS PLEASE DON'T KILL ME FOR SAYING THAT!

Good luck fellow Aussie! It sounds amazing!


4 nights in Berlin
3 nights in Prague
2 nights in Nuremberg
1 night in Rothernburg (will hire a car for this portion)
1 night in Augsburg (will hire a car for this portion)
2 nights in Fussen (will hire a car for this portion)
3 nights in Munich
3 nights in Salzburg
3 nights in Vienna
2 nights in Dubai

janisj

I'd <u>really</u> reconsider and make a few adjustments.

You have a 30 hour flight, 9 essentially 1 days stops, 2 half day stops, 20 days of train travel, followed by another 30 hour flight. I'm NOT suggesting slowing down to a snail's pace - not at all. But honestly, from about the 7th week you won't know where you are - nor care much. From Prague on it gets especially fast paced. By then you will be dragging. Doesn't matter if one is 22 or 42 - those last 3 weeks are killers.

bethany1

I like it but plan for more time in Dubai, fantastic place to end!!

4 nights in Brussels
4 nights in Amsterdam
4 nights in Berlin

These could be knocked down to:

3 nights in Brussels
2 nights in Amsterdam
3 nights in Berlin

I hope you are young and have lots of energy We are in our young 40's, athletic and in good shape, and I don't think I could handle that long of a trip.

urop14

Another fellow Aussie here, yes, planning another once in a lifetime Europe trip with 2.5 months in a dozen countries...
We are even doing it with two kids (aged 10 and 9)!!
Our kids do travel well: we do monthly 5hr driving roundtrips in a single day or overnight without drama, and have a 10-day, 6,000km+ roundtrip under our belt (Busselton-Broome return). But this is a much longer trip...
We have also factored in a week staying put here and there, after going over what initially turned out to be an insane itinerary. Ours (so far and with much improvement already) is as follows:

1 WEEK in Paris
1 WEEK in Interlaken (or similar area, to cover Lake Geneva, Lake Lucerne and a couple of mountains with a Swiss Pass)
3 NIGHTS in London (at this point we will either buy or lease a car for the rest of the trip, and begin the whirlwind part
1 NIGHT in Yorkshire
2 NIGHTS in Scotland (Loch Ness is the must-see part of this journey)
3 NIGHTS down thru the middle of the UK (Isle of Man daytrip is a must-do)
2 NIGHTS in Cotswolds, then into France
1 WEEK in Loire Valley
5 NIGHTS across south of France, followed by
1 WEEK in Tuscany (to cover Cinque Terre, Lucca/Pisa, Florence and countryside)
4 NIGHTS based outside Rome (hopefully including the Vatican, Colosseum, and a trip down to Pompeii and Amalfi coast - ambitious, I know!)
2 NIGHTS in Venice (Mestre)
1 WEEK in Croatia (husband's family are from the Zadar region)
2 NIGHTS in the Italian Lakes Region
1 NIGHT near Bodensee
1 NIGHT in the Black Forest
2 NIGHTS in Koblenz (including a day cruise and Nurburgring)
2 NIGHTS in the Netherlands
We will then unload the car and fly out of either Paris or London and home...

We have a number of must-see and must-do items, including the really touristy sites that kids just have to see (Stonehenge, Big Ben, Colosseum, Eiffel Tower, etc), and trying to limit the art museums, castles, cathedrals and racetracks (petrolhead husband) to a tolerable level for kids.
We have looked for a lot of unique countryside, open air, hands-on and free museums, as well as walks, bike or canoe hire and other car-free activities.
The single night accommodations will break up long sections of driving and allow us to visit one or two key spots along the way. We don't plan to 'explore' these areas like the week-long stays, but we'll opt for the scenic routes and avoid the cities wherever possible.
It's a big ask, and I know we can't do everything, but the next trip will be on another continent, so this my one chance!
I hate having to skip Ireland and Wales altogether, but it will easily add another week to the trip, and we're on a strict budget as it is. Spain and Austria are other detours we had to drop.

Different stage of life - same crazy trip idea. Good luck with yours!