Mitch

On the discussion below on Carnival.... <BR>a year and a half or so Sue had a terrible <BR>experience on the oldest Carnival ship...this <BR>understandably colored her opinion of Carnival rather negatively. But as a non emotional observer..let's check the facts... <BR>what line has the most ships, the most passengers, the biggest share of the market.. <BR>well we all know it's Carnival. How can this <BR>be so...because all their cruises are the cruise from hell? Oh, the cruises suck but at <BR>least their cheap...Well, folks...cheap is relative..you can go on a much cheaper cruise <BR>with Commodore....Big Red Boat....Dolphin <BR>Cruise lines...ever hear of those? Carnival <BR>also has the highest RETURN business in the <BR>industry..that's a fact. WHY? Because people <BR>love going on CRUISES FROM HELL??? Logic dictates that in the vast majority of the time, with the vast majority of the cruises.. <BR>Carnival meets or exceeds expectations. That <BR>is simply a fact. Does that mean that Sue was <BR>exaggerating? Of course not.....the Tropicale <BR>was a disaster..and the crew did not handle it well. And if I were Sue, I would never give Carnival my business again...but ONLY <BR>TO PROTEST THIS INCIDENT. To assume that because the oldest ship in the fleet falls apart, that all of the ships, and crews are <BR>like this ("BEWARE CARNIVAL..") simply flys <BR>in the face of logic. <BR> <BR>Mitch <BR> <BR>

Hilary

The funny thing about Carnival is that people either love them or hate them. There is no doubt in my mind that they have seriously improved their product in the past few years, but it will be another few years before I'll venture back to them...my one and only Carnival cruise being less than desireable.

Sue

Thanks Mitch for at least believeing that our cruise was horrible. And yes, part of the reason that we will never sail with Carnival again is in "protest" to what happened to us. There was so much more that happened on that trip that I didn't even write about. The other reason is because of Carnival's attitude when something did go horribly wrong. <BR>I do have to differ with one thing you said, I believe that Carnival is the largest and the heaviest line traveled because they do the most advertising. Just my opinion. <BR>I have several reviews posted on www.epinions.com if you are interested in some reading. Only one of the cruises that we have taken we considered "awful" and that was the one on the Tropicale.

Mitch

Sue, <BR> Have you read about horror stories abaoard NCL, RCCL, even HAL? I have! <BR> As a person who has been involved with <BR>commercial advertising, if your product <BR>generally is poor compared to the competition..you lose...no matter how much advertising you do. And to be quite honest I have seen CCL's competition advertise much more than Carnival lately specifically Disney and <BR>RCCL. <BR> All I am saying Sue (and I sensed you have moderated your opinion a little since your first posting)..to portray your experience as evidence that one takes a big risk of disaster if one sails Carnival is false. It is likely one will have a good experience. And that can be said of ALL the major cruise lines...despite some of THERE horror stories.. <BR> <BR>Mitch

merriem

Mitch, sorry to disagree, but I think Sue is right. Just because Carnival is the biggest does not mean it is the best. Just because Carnival spends the most on advertising, doesn't mean they are right. Just because Carnival has the most passengers, does not mean they are great. Apparently they have carved a spot in the cruising industry that does not appeal to the more experienced cruises. Sue is well within her rights to be upset. And yes, I have heard other horror stories.....don't get me started on NCL. As far as your experience in commercial advertising, it's a know fact "if you have a great product, you don't have to advertise. the world will lead a path to your door" <BR>They can advertise all they want, and I will not take the "chance" of a medocre, vacation.

Sue

Mitch: Have you actually read the original post from the "Beware" Carnival message? If you would go back and really read it, it warns passengers mainly to take care of any problems while still aboard a Carnival Ship, not to go home and think that they will be able to do something about it then. <BR>I also asked potential passengers to please look carefully into the ships before they decide to sail on them. <BR> Yes, I have heard horror stories about other lines, but they are not as frequent as the horror stories about Carnival. Yes, Carnival has more passengers because they have more ships, so it is likely that they would have more complaints. It is the way they handle problems that I totally disagree with. <BR>What other line is there out there that when their name is mentioned, some go into a rage while others go totally into a defensive mode. I have never seen people have such a Love/Hate relationship about any other line, except Carnival. There must be a reason for it! As far as noticeing that other lines advertise more than Carnival, no I haven't noticed that, open any paper, turn on the television and there it is, an Ad for Carnival at a ridiculously low price. Anything, in my opinion that is over-advertised, has some sort of problem, or they wouldn't have to advertise as much. <BR>And thank you Merriem, I appreciate your kind words. Sue

Mitch

To Sue and all others in this thread.. <BR>In the spirit of Peace...Happy Holidays! <BR>We have pretty much trenched out our positions on this Carnival thing...Also, <BR>in the spirit of disclosure..I am sailing on Carnival's Paradise in two <BR>weeks. I have noticed it kind of stands <BR>alone as Carnival's "least carnival" ship (no smoking...slightly older, slightly more upscale..more toned down decor)..at least according to reviews. <BR>When I return I will give as objective <BR>review as I can...including freely listing the negatives. <BR> <BR> Again, season's greetings...and smooth sailing in 2000! <BR> <BR>Mitch

Hilary

Carnival corporation brags that 40% of their passengers return for another Carnival cruise in the future. I wonder what the return rate is for Princess, RCCL, Celebrity, and other lines. Anyone?

Lynn

I agree with Hilary's initial comment about Carnival. I, too, had the "misfortune" of sailing with Carnival on my first cruise in 1993 on the Celebration--which was a relatively new ship at the time. There weren't any problems with the ship, it was the attitude and rudeness of the crew, in addition to extras that are not provided by Carnival that leave me willing to pay a little more to sail Princess or HAL. Regardless of whether Sue was on the Tropical or one of Carnival's newer vessels, she deserved to be treated right. Granted, one must do their research when cruising--we won't consider ANY of the older ships, even though we've been tempted by sales and intriguing itineraries on some older ships. However, if a cruise line such as Carnival is willing to put their reputation on the line by continuing to sell vacations on ships in deplorable conditions, such as the Tropical, then I feel they have a responsibility to back up what they advertise and sell by treating the customer appropriately when incidents such as Sue's occur. She deserved at least a response from Carnival. This is exactly why I wouldn't sail them again--after being treated so rudely on my first cruise vacation by their staff, and even after voicing complaints to Carnival in writing not to be taken seriously, listened to or even responded to, I also feel I have a right to inform others of what "my" experience was as a fair warning, regardless of what the statistics say about Carnival's passenger retention rate and number of ships afloat.

Cara

Mitch <BR> with your experience in "commercial advertising advertising" I would think that you would know that Dolphin cruise lines was bought by Premier years ago.

Mitch

Yes, Dolphin was bought some time ago, and I stand corrected..but it really doesn't change the point I made..that there are cheaper cruiselines than CCL so that cannot be the ONLY reason why they are so popular...

boorock

Mass advertising my dear, MASS ADVERTISING. Without it they would NOT be the largest, just the worst.

Mitch

Hmmmm, I can go with the MASS ADVERTISING theory to get these poor passengers on these nightmare ships the FIRST time. Yet these misguided souls, after an awful experience, rebook on the same cruiseline time and again; in fact Carnival leads the way in repeat customers. Perhaps these folks are wandering into the lounge with the hypnotist, an evil plant by corporate Carnival..and they are all turned into mindless zombies.I think there should be a Senate investigation into this..... <BR> <BR>Mitch

judy

Hey Mitch, Maybe these are the same people that "love" the chain restaurants and have no taste. Of course they go back, they find it their level of security. That does not mean it is worth the money. Why are you so protective. Do you do their advertising?

merriem

Remember 6,000,000 people visit Branson Missouri each year.......that does not mean they have good taste! Maybe you should advertise there, you would get a lot of takers.

Kathy

I know lots of people who are frequent repeat guests on Carnival ships. It's the only line they have tried and they have been satisfied with it so feel no need to change. They have no basis for comparison and often feel it's the best in a cruising experience. Quite often, Carnival is a first time cruise experience, as they have the most ships and many feel offer the best prices and obviously have a huge advertising budget. That was the case for me with Carnival. They were our first three cruises and we were satisfied with the experience UNTIL we sailed with other lines. Then we realized that there is quality service, food, entertainment, etc. on other lines that Carnival just can't match. Yes, there is a definite niche market for Carnival cruises - that's obvious by the number of ships they have and the number of repeat cruisers. Personally, after having seen how much better cruising can be than it is on Carnival, I have no desire to return to them. If their style is your thing, go for it but I feel that MOST experienced cruisers are looking for more quality in their cruises. Sure, McDonald's is the largest fast food chain, has tons of stores and can satisfy my hunger but it's surely not MY choice for dinner. There are SO many different lines and ships available today that there is surely something that will appeal to every taste. Different strokes for different folks is what makes life so interesting! If Carnival's your thing, great, but don't forget there are lots of other ships in the sea - try them, you might find you like them just as well! <BR> <BR>

Gary T

Very interesting point comparing Carnival to McDonalds. It is true that one will not starve eating at McDonald's but if one has a chance to eat at The Outback and could afford it why wouldn't he.

Sue

Wonderful responses, I commend the last two posters. I couldn't agree with you more! Sue

Lori

Hi! My first visit to this site, we are taking our 5 year old on the Disney Cruise in 2 weeks, and was just passing through. But reading your posts has got me interested. My husband and I went on Carnival's Fantasy for our Honeymoon in 91' and it was not more than a few years old then. Was very impressed and satisfied, but like mentioned, first cruise, so nothing to compare it to. We then went back on the same cruise (Fantasy, except it switched ports from Miami to Port Canaveral)with another couple in 94', they very much enjoyed it also but it was in January and the weather was not real great and she got pretty seasick. So they won't go on another cruise with us. But anyway, I am looking forward to the Disney cruise to have a comparison for our Carnival experiences.

Melinda Kazmer

Let me put my two cents worth in as well. We just returned from the Dec 12th sailing of the Paradise - a NEW 1 year old ship that is non-smoking. We booked it because of the non-smoking and some of the reviews that we had read stating that the ship was not "typical Carnival". We have been on 12 other cruises and always avoided Carnival like the plague - but since we had had some bad experiences with smokers we decided to take this ship. BAD NEWS!!! We contracted a bacterial infection while on board - the atrium design of the ship makes everyone have to pass in that part of the ship to go to meals and shows and was very crowded. There was really very little open deck space that could be enjoyed quietly - the space around the pool always had either loud piped-in music or a band that played at an ear splitting decibel level. 2500+ people is way too many to crowd on a ship - Carnival, in our opinion, is ruining the experience of cruising. I will NEVER even look at Carnival - we will be on the lookout for small, traditional ships. We had a wonderful experience on Premier's Sea Breeze just last May and we paid very little for that cruise - it was just fabulous! WE have cruised on HAL, Celebrity, NCL, Commodore, Costa, RCCL, Premier in the past - we have never had such a bad experience. We talked to a lot of people like ourselves who had booked becuase of the non-smoking policy and would never come back again - so there are a lot of people who will try it once and not return. For the repeaters - I say that that must be the kind of cruising experience that they want - glitzy and mundane - I do not want to ever be on a "floating hotel" again!