Disney called the 11/30 sailing

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Dec 9th, 2002, 08:11 PM

#21

Use

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Grumpy as your name so well denotes. If the cruise companies knew there was a risk that their passengers would get sick then they should have: a. warned them of potential risk b. gave them the option to reschedule c. refunded their money in full. As with most dogmatists you skirted around the example I gave you. Why some may ask? Because you can't defend against the it. Tylenol rather then jeopardize their relationship with the public decided it was better to lose some money at the time then suffer the long term affects. What was originally just common sense turned out to be one of the most talked about marketing windfalls in business history. Tylenol has an even better reputation than it did before because it decided to look out for the best interest of its customers and not itself. The cruise lines should have thought of this. And it is not only the money that is an issue but the "oppurtunity cost" involved. that means the lost oppurtunity they could have realized had they explored another vacation had they been properly warned. So do I believe the cruise lines knew about the risks in advance. Yes, by their actions and their fellow cruise lines I think they had full knowledge in plenty of time to warn their patrons. Their greed dictated their actions (with the exception of some smart lines). When you can present an intelligent rebutle I would look forward to hearing it. Being grumpy, old, and pushy does nt work as a counterpoint. Alot of companies are listed on the NYSE that does not mean you can get to them litigiously.

Dec 9th, 2002, 09:59 PM

#22

Paul Therault

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I believe most all agree the cruise lines are doing the best they can. It is an unfortunate circumstance. Why shouldn't the cruise lines believe the virus would cease as it does every year in Alaska? It did not, therefore they are taking the advice of the CDC and are cleaning the ships. They are also offering restitution to the passengers who could prove they became ill with this Norwalk Like Virus. The only other alternative is for all cruise lines to shut down completely. Is this a viable option? I do not hear of any news reports of the ships that have been cleaned. Probably no one will hear, since CNN and others only report sensational bad news. Paul

Dec 10th, 2002, 05:40 AM

#23

Grumpy

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Use([email protected])-- You are relying upon two concepts to further your "evil cruise lines" argument. The first is the legal concept of "adequate notice" and the other is the economic argument of "opportunity costs." Both are too complex to explain here. As to your other arguments, they are covered by the contract we agree to when purchasing a cruise. That the cruise lines did not have a crisis management procedure in place is not arguable. My point is simply no irrevocable damage was done to those who fell ill, and therefore it is only greed that brings the lawyers into play.

Dec 10th, 2002, 08:16 AM

#24

Oh ok

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I see grumpy so being the master of the space time continuim, you can give these people back the vaction that they lost? I see Use's point. You can't offer a resonable counter point so you claim that it is too involved.

Dec 10th, 2002, 09:16 AM

#25

Grumpy

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Oh ok--Your sarcasm is noted. Beam me up Scotty! My thought--I imagine you believe you are entitled to everything because you take up space on this planet. I say absolutely "NO." "My point is simply no irrevocable damage was done to those who fell ill, and therefore it is only greed that brings the lawyers into play." If I had tried to explain the concepts that are involved here, I would have been flamed for being a snob. My assumption is when you use a concept, you know what it means. The initial poster did not.

Dec 10th, 2002, 10:49 AM

#26

Student

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I am a business major and "Use" was right on target. His/her application of the general priciples involved were very accurate. The tylenol example is right out of most major marketing text books. And I don't see how losing your vacation cannot be considered irrevocable. Can you get it back? No! What is so difficult about that concept. If the cruise lines knew there was a risk that their patrons would get ill, then they are responsible. Plain and simple. Maybe Grumpy you need to take a little refresher in Marketing and Good Faith. Or maybe you are just a Grumpy old man like your name denotes. Either way this will give a black eye to crusie lines every where.

Dec 10th, 2002, 11:10 AM

#27

Grumpy

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Hey student--I chose the handle of Grumpy because I become tired of ignorance shown on many of these boards. FYI, I need not a refresher in marketing. I am a VP of Marketing in a Fortune 500 company with over 350 sales persons and 40 marketing team people working with me. Yes, I am over 40, but then not exactly an old fart. I also teach marketing, marketing research, sales management and advertising as an adjunct professor at a major [you know...hard to get into] university. May I suggest you consult your text book on law under the title of "constructive notice" and your finance book under the topic of "alternative opportunity" Then get back to me.

Dec 10th, 2002, 11:21 AM

#28

Ohpulease

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Hey Grumpy, that doesn't mean you know what you are doing, it just means you are good at BS. I have seen many people in corporate and academic positions of high value that have no idea what they are talking about. As far as Fortune 500 companies, most of of you are more criminally incompetent than a someone robbing a donut shop. By the way I teach as well, and I am tired of the ignorance perpetuated by people like you! Hold companies accountable for their inaction/actions. but you wouldn't want that since you are part of the corporate machine/greed that you protest about.

Dec 10th, 2002, 11:37 AM

#29

thewho

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Just wondering how many of the poor deprived-of-their-vacation because of the cruise lines negligence passengers smoke? I personally know a couple who were on a ship that had some allegedly ill people. This couple has bellyached for two weeks about it and have commented on how their health was jeoparized by the cruise line. Funny thing they are so concerned about their health. They both smoke like chimneys. I'm sure the cartons of cigarettes they smoked that week did them more harm than anything else, aside from maybe the booze they filtered through their kidneys.

Dec 10th, 2002, 12:04 PM

#30

Grumpy

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Ohpulease--This is absolute nonsense. Big corporations are not inherently evil. Your comment "that doesn't mean you know what you are doing, it just means you are good at BS. I have seen many people in corporate and academic positions of high value that have no idea what they are talking about" is the thinking of a person who is full of envy. Sour grapes. Further "As far as Fortune 500 companies, most of of you are more criminally incompetent than a someone robbing a donut shop" is just plain stupid. Where do you think the money comes that pays your salary? Jobs created by the evil companies! Further "I am tired of the ignorance perpetuated by people like you!" As a teacher, you should be more specific in telling us about the "ignorance [being] perpetuated."

Dec 10th, 2002, 12:15 PM

#31

Tom

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Methinks though dost protest too much Grumpy! Large corporations have been inherently evil since their conceptualization. Most of them hide behind the coporate blanket of a seperate entity. It is nice to see that Disney had the gumption to act properly. It is a pity you can't see that and the others for what they are. Maybe you should be more specific yourself instead of dancing around the subject.

Dec 10th, 2002, 12:47 PM

#32

Grumpy

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Okay -- let's all clear our throats and sing "Ode to Corporate Greed" --- Robbers and cheaters That's what they are. Big corporations are meanies! Our nose pressed to the window, We drool from afar. Just poor lil whiney weenies. All those who eschew the cut-throat marketplace and instead spend their lives in the "noble" professions (such as teaching, medicine, etc) -- just remember. Corporations pay taxes ... their employees pay taxes on their salaries...their stockholders pay taxes. Those taxes support our schools (and teachers), our hospitals, our parks, our highway system -- and lest we forget, the defense of our country.

Dec 10th, 2002, 10:22 PM

#33

Paul Therault

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Very interesting thread. the problem is no one is winning. It is a very big stupid jumble. We're now into corporate greed and evil. The facts are Disney did not pull their ship after the first virus outbreak. They cleaned their ship as instructed. Exactly the same as Holland America. So why is Disney better? Carnival cleaned their ship and P&O cleaned their ship. The virus will diappear same as it does in Alaska every year. Paul