Hi all,

My boyfriend and I are coming to Canada at the end of January from England. We are planning to fly into Toronto, travel up to Quebec and are getting married in the Ice Hotel. We are then spending a few days in Quebec for the start of the winter festival staying at the Auberge Saint Antoine.

We have just made a last minute decision to take the plunge and stay longer than our original plan of 2 weeks and are now planning to stay at least 6 weeks and hope to travel across Canada taking in Yellowknife (for the Northern Lights) up to Alaska into the Arctic Circle, then driving back down the Western side of Canada ending up in Vancouver.

So, apart from telling us we're mad!! (which we know we are!!) can anyone give us guidance on places to visit (or not to visit!) Roads to take (or not take!) We're already planning to take the Ice road to Yellowknife.....the closest we get to an ice road in England is a bit of frost on the road!

A bit about us so that you know what we like....we're mad Ice Hockey fans (I manage a women's team here in England), we love snow, Mountains and anything outdoors. We spent a week in a log cabin 7 miles from the Canadian border in Northern New Hampshire in January this year so we've experience the cold weather at it's best and worst! We love wildlife, nature, seeking out new adventures and photography.

After the initial expense in Quebec we are planning to reduce the budget for accommodation and are happy with simple, friendly and clean accommodation....are there any chains of hotels/motels that can be recommended. Is it feasible to book only the first part of the trip and then find accommadtion as we travel so that we can follow the weather (and northern lights predictions)

I know that was a lot of questions....sorry!!

Any advice you can give us would be greatly appreciated!

Anna & Simon

Anna & Simon
In January, I would SERIOUSLY consider taking the VIA train across Canada from Quebec to Vancouver, I would not recommend that you drive across Canada if your only winter driving experience is on roads that become a little frosty! The cross Canada train takes 3 days from Toronto and would give you a gorgeous view of Canada.
http://www.viarail.ca/trains/en_trai_toja.html
This site is chock full of info for visitors and will give you schedules and prices.
When you arrive in Vancouver,which is lovely and traditionaly receives much less snow, you could rent a car and proceed with your Arctic excursion.
Sounds like an outstanding honeymoon.

Hi Gemelli,

I realised after I posted my message how silly it was not to say that we have good experience of driving in winter conditions.....ok, not on ice roads, but we've done a fair amount of driving in the US and Europe in Winter conditions. We just got back from Estonia on Tuesday and I chose probably the worst day ever to drive a left hand drive stick shift (I usually get automatics!). It put down a foot and a half of snow in less than 24 hours....and the Estonians were driving like mad people!!

Thanks for the advice though, we had already started considering taking the train as it would save on a huge car hire bill!! So i'll have a good look at the website.

i too would recommend either taking the train or flying to the western part of the country. if you rent a car, you probably want to fly into and out of the same city (calgary or vancouver) because otherwise, you'll pay several hundred dollars for a drop off fee. you could do a circle from either calgary or vancouver, taking in banff, jasper, lake louise in alberta (they all have good hostels, other accommodations will be expensive), b.c. and yellowknife. i don't think they "predict" northern lights. you just luck out so i'd plan on several nights up north to give you a better chance of seeing them.
sounds like a very interesting honeymoon. have fun. make sure your car is prepared for harsh winter driving. also have food, water, blankets, candels, boots, hats and mitts at all times in the car in case of a problem.

Hi ltt

Thanks for your reply. Just to go a little off topic. There are a few websites that offer good predictions of the movements of the Northern lights. There is also a good yahoo group that offers details predictions on a daily basis.
A particularly good site that I have found is http://www.northern-lights.no/....have a look at the realtime measurements secion/POES and the animation of the current northern lights activity......great if your hunting for a good spot to see them.

Back on topic. Here in England I always keep blankets, a shovel, cardboard/grit, torch, food and drink in the car when I'm driving in winter. I was brought up in a family that never took things for granted. We even had a family call sound for if we got lost in the mountains - although I don't think they'd hear it from Canada!!
I only needed the emergrency winter kit once....and boy was I glad I had it!! Stuck on a motorway at night in the snow....I think the police were astounded that there was someone who was so prepared!

Thanks for the advice about the hire cars....we are already looking for hire firms that do free one way rental.....it looks like we can do some short hops between some cities and then pick up another car.....but the logistics of that are already giving me a headache!! train definitely sounds good

I recommend that you take "The Canadian" (http://www.viarail.ca/trains/en_trai_toja.html) - a restored 1995 era vintage train from Toronto up over the Great Lakes across the Canadian Shield to Jasper in the Canadian Rockies (2 nights on the train) then get off there, rent a car explore the Rockies etc as you wish, then end up in Banff and take the Rocky Mountaineer (http://www.rockymountaineer.com/) - you'll need to check that it runs that time of year - down to Vancouver. Unlike "The Canadian", it's an excursion train and only travels during the day so you don't miss any of the spectacular scenery. Neither train is cheap but they will provide a truly memorable experience - especially if you choose to book a roomette for the 2 day trip from Toronto to Jasper. Note that "The Canadian" passes through the cascade mountains at night - hence the suggestion to change to the "Rocky Mountaineer" for that leg of the journey.

This itinerary would give you the chance to experience the vastness and beauty of Canada but would eliminate the long tedious drive across the central plains - a somewhat boring stretch that can pose a bit of danger that time of year. I know you've had some experience with winter driving but believe me, winter in England is NOTHING like what you will experience in the plains (I used to live in both Western Europe and on the American plains). The weather that time of year is absolutely brutal and yes, can be very life threatening. Also keep in mind that the area is VAST so you will be driving in winter conditions for days just to cross that part of the country. You back and shoulders will be very tense from all that stressful winter driving. You don't need to add to that stress by spending all that time driving through an area that has little to see. Either fly across the plains - or if you really want to exprience the vastness of that land then take the train.

Ken

Thanks LordBalfor.

You're so right about the winters in England not being cold! It's considered cold of it reaches -2C here!

Other than trips into Europe we had an interesting lesson in the harshness of North American winters when we were in Northern New Hampshire this year, we had a cabin just south of the Canadian border and took a drive up to Sherbrooke (just to get the stamp in the passport!)
During our stay the lowest temperature that was recorded while we were out there was -37C.....and that didn't include the windchill. On a drive into Northern Maine we experienced the harshest windchill temperatures which according to the local radio reached
-56C!....being in those temperatures definitely makes you realise just how fragile life can be at those temperatures!!

But we thoroughly enjoyed the challenge, and the scenery was unbelievable in such harsh conditions.... although no one back home believes those temperatures actually exist!

and if any of you are wondering why we have such a crazy liking for cold weather I have an illness that only really improves when I'm in cold weather.....that's why I love it so much....it gives me a new lease of life that I don't have here in damp dreary Engalnd.
Winter holidays are really the only sensible option for me.

Anna if you do decide to rent a vehicle for this monumental task, make sure you get a 4-wheel drive.

But I'll add my voice to the chorus advocating the train. Lord Balfour has offered great suggestions for maximizing the scenery.

And folks, don't forget that while the southern coast and Vancouver will likely be balmy and damp (very much like England) and therefore easier to drive, going to Alaska involves driving through parts of the province that get very cold and snowy. So there will still be a huge driving challenge.

We have driven across the Rockies from Calgary to Vancouver many times in the winter, and we will no longer do it. The last 2 trips we hit blizzards, and what is normally a 12-hour drive straight through for us became 17 hours plus. (We would have stopped over somewhere, but we had to get home to our jobs). We were terrified the whole way and I was crying for much of it - and we grew up on the Prairies and have driven in winter conditions all our lives.
And the other thing to consider is that it isn't necessarily your driving that might be the problem - someone else's mistake can easily result in tragedy for you at the worst, and inconvenience at best.

I hope you have a wonderful time - it will be a real adventure!

Hello AnnaW,

Suggest you also ask these questions at Lonely Planet's Thorntree forum, if you haven't already done so.

When you're planning your budget, keep in mind that towns in the far north (Yellowknife et al) are more expensive than towns further south (or so I've heard, since I have not been to them myself).

I grew up on the Manitoba prairies and from experience, I would recommend adding to your winter car kit:

1) an extension chord to plug the car in at night (make sure rental has a block heater),
2) a tow rope,
3) battery booster cables (std equipment in Winnipeg) and
4) thermal blankets and a bag of sand.
5) thermal candles

All can be purchased from Canadian Tire.

A layered clothing approach works best. I wear North Face gear for winter. A down filled jacket and ski mitts and thermal underwear work well.

The Northern lights are viewable from most places on the prairies.

Toronto on the other hand still warmish (1-10C) with no snow and it's not looking like a white christmas so far.

A typical Winnipeger in winter walks into 7-11 dressed in a t-shirt, blue jean jacket and buys an ultra large slushed drink (slurpy) when it's -30 out....

Thanks for all the messages guys,
It's really useful.

We have a friend in our hockey team from Winnipeg and he was telling us the stories about walking round eating ice cream in -30.

Thanks for all the warnings, I can assure you that they will be well heeded....we may be crazy, but we're not daft. I've been buying my winter clothing over the last year since we booked the wedding. Summer sales were great for that - I paid 2 thirds less for an expedition level down jacket. I just tried it out in Estonia in -15C and was able to only wear my thermal tshirt underneath it and was lovely and warm - almost too warm.

So other than taking the train, can anyone recommend places for us to visit.

>>>>>>So other than taking the train, can anyone recommend places for us to visit.<<<<<<

There is a lot of information here at Fodors about the popular tourist destinations in the Canadian Rockies (Banff, Lake Louise and Jasper).

There are far fewer Fodorites who have been further north, to places like Yellowknife.

If you want information on the southern halves of Alberta and British Columbia, there are plenty of people here who can help you.

If you want information on points north, there may be people here who can help you, but I think it's a bit of a hit and miss proposition.

What you are asking about is not merely the usual leisure trip that the average tourist undertakes. It is a trip that, in order to be safe, will require careful planning. It isn't good enough, in my opinion, to come to a general travel board and ask, "Can anyone recommend places for us to visit?"

I did an Internet search for ALASKA HIGHWAY, because I thought it might bring up websites that at least would be a good start. I found a website that described the Alaska Highway, albeit in summer:

http://www.outwestnewspaper.com/akhwy.html

The website recommended a book called "The Milepost" as THE definitive book, not only on the Alaska Highway, but also highways in Canada's Northern Territory, Yukon Territory, British Columbia and Alberta. The highways that are covered are:

* Alaska Highway
* Atlin Road
* Campbell Highway
* Canol Road
* Cassia Highway (I'm sure they mean Cassiar)
* Copper River Highway
* Dalton Highway
* Dempster Highway
* Edgerton Highway/McCarthy Road
* Elliott Highway
* Glenn Highway/Tok Cutoff
* Haines Highway
* Hudson's Hope Highway
* Klondike Highway
* Klondike Loop
* Liard Highway
* Mackenzie Route
* Parks Highway
* Richards on Highway
* Seward Highway
* Sliver Trail Highway
* Steese Highway
* Sterling Highway
* Tagish Road
* Taylor Highway
* Top of the World Highway
* Yellowhead Highway

The blurb says the book also describes railroads and ferries in the region.

I think it would be a good idea for you to get hold of this book, or one like it.

Amazon.com appears to have a 2004 edition of "The Milepost." Unfortunately Amazon.co.uk seems to have only hopelessly outdated editions.

It sounds as if you do have experience in handling severe winter conditions, and it also sounds as if you travel prepared, as evidenced by the fact that you were prepared when you got stuck on a motorway at night.

Please forgive us if we sound too emotional in our warnings about winter driving. I don't know about the other North American Fodorites, but my emotional tone comes from the fact that I know of people who lived quite close to me who have been killed by winter conditions.

A few years ago, there was a news story about a family whose car broke down on a secondary road only about 25 kilometres outside of Calgary. It was bitterly cold night, and they died of hypothermia.

In the spring of 2003, my husband and I both were close to people who were bereaved. The then 16-year-old girl who lives next door to us lost 8 classmates in an avalanche during a cross country skiing expedition in B.C. A couple of weeks later a young Calgary woman was a member of another cross country skiing party that got killed in an avalanche in B.C. It turned out that she was the daughter of a colleague of my husband and also the best friend of a colleague of mine. I will NEVER forget my colleague's face when she got the phone call in our office lunch room that her friend had died, and I will NEVER forget the ashen colour of the girl nextdoor when I went over to her house to give her some flowers.

Anyway, I hope some of this information may be helpful.

Ithought I'd written this before, but can't find it, so, again... (maybe)

Go to your northern lights web sites and see if you can find good northern lights in January further south.

It is impossible to get people to understand the distances in north western Canada unless they go there. Everyone thinks things are closer together than they really are.

Yellowknife and Whitehorse are a long, long, long way from anywwhere, and even further in the winter.

And there's long distances of nothing, including fuel, and warm places to stay the night.

Traveling to the far north in the winter is a serious project. I was in Whitehorse one day when it was so cold an airliner's front windscreen cracked on the ground from the cold when the ground crew started to warm up the airplane. Minus 40, which is the same in F degrees and c degrees. Some poor guy was up on a scaffold replacing the glass when I drove by the airplne.

It may say 700 miles on the map from Edmonton to Yellowknife, but they are long, long miles.

I've driven from Winnipeg to Vancouver, Edmonton to Winnipeg, Vancouver to Edmonton, and so on and so forth, in winter and summer, and on a clear, cold, crisp winter day, it can be beautiful, for the few hours of sunlight, but going north of Edmonton is tricky.

My policy for authorizing trip to the far north in the winter, back when I actually approved people's travel, was to build lots of "stranded" time into schedules, and make sure they had extra hotel days booked. Plus we tended to fly people in and out in the winter, rather than putting people on roads between communities. There's no point is sliding off the road and wating two hours for the next truck to come along to pull you out, if they see you undere a blanket of snow, in the dark.

So...

If you can find the northern lights further south, go see them.

If you can't, think about flying to Whitehorse, Dawson, or Yellowknife, -- pick the one the northern light experts say is the best.

And if you want to see some of the west in winter, fly from Montreal to Edmonton, fly to Yelloowknife and back, and then rent a car (or a four-wheel SUV if you want to get off the roads) and drive south to Calgary across the prairie, and then turn west into the Rocky Mountains, and perhaps get all the way to Vancouver.

About the Arctic Circle -- I can't for the life of me imagine any useful reason to go north of the Arctic Circle in the western Arctic in the wintertime, except to say you've done it.

I have not been that far north, but I know lots of people who have. In the summer, with the long days and low sun and rocks and moss and tiny trees and ponds, it can be beautiful, but in the winter it is dangerous and white, and usually in the dark.

Come back in the summer.

It's hard to make European comparisons, but don't think of western Canada, north of Edmonton, being like the Swiss or French or Italian Alps. Think more like Siberia, as I understand it. Flat, small trees, rocks, no people for vast distances.

Now, how about something positive? If you love photography, wildlife, nature, etc., the southern Candian Rocky Mountains and other mountains west of Banff will be wonderful places for you. While there are excellent restaurants and hotels there, a few minutes drive on decent roads will take you to genuine wilderness with wonderful visits, clear skies lots of the time, some wildlife still out in the snow.

The hotels and tourist offices can direct you to places for winter hiking, and there's lots of adventure-tourism things to do that, first of all rarely can be found north of Edmonton, and second, of all, are close enough to get to without four hours of driving in snow squalls on slippery roads past pretty much nothing to look at.

Reservations, etc. --- a lot of accomodatations are closed in the winter in the north and vacation areas in the mountains. The big resort hotels are open, and the commercial motels for truck drivers are open.

Depending on where you are, there are independent motels and chain motels and hotels. To a large extent, you should be able to book one day ahead. Wake up in the morning in Regina and decide if you want to go westto Calgary and north-west to Edmonton, and then use your hotel's booking system to reserve for that night in Calgary or Edmonton. That should work fine.

But to drive out of Regina with no reservation for that night... itf you start looking around 4 in the afternoonyou are probably fine in the winter except in the most popular ski and winter recreation areas. i.e. Lethbridge and Medicine hat motels on the edge of town will probably have rooms for you. I don't think you'd need to book a week ahead anywhere except in Banff and Lake Louise and Jasper.

BAK

annaw - you sound like your very aware of what you are getting into and you are preparing well.
it will definitly be a trip to remember. my cousin lives in yellowknife and some of her pictures of the northern lights are almost unbelievable. have a great trip.
this is pretty unique. please post a trip report when you return.

Should the logistics and budget implications of crossing Canada and then heading North seem unwieldy, consider that the province of Quebec is enormous and touring northern Quebec and Labrador will also offer a similar experience including the northern lights. A journey to Canada's newest province Nunavut would be amazing.

If you are planning to drive to Yellowknife, then to Alaska, and above the Arctic Circle in winter, then I believe that you are truly mad.

I understand that you are looking for the experience of winter driving, so I would recommend that you not take the train to the West, but drive via the Trans Canada Highway to Edmonton, stopping along the route as the weather or your interests dictate.

When you are in Edmonton, you can then decide if you have had enough and still want to do the 1400 km round trip to Yellowknife. If not, you can fly there for a few days. On your return to Edmonton, you can then make your way to Vancouver--you will have a variety of routes to choose. I would strongly recommend, however, that you leave the Alaska and Dempster Highways for a summer trip. Remember as well that in January and February the hours of daylight will be limited, and frankly the idea of driving through a snowstorm in the dark (or indeed in the light)is not my idea of fun or adventure. Remember also that places for fuel and lodging are few and far between once you head north, and that roads will be closed frequently because of adverse conditions.

To give you an idea of road conditions, you might want to check the provincial and territorial websites on a regular basis. Here are a few:

http://www.hwy.dot.gov.nt.ca/highways/
http://www.gov.yk.ca/roadreport/
http://www.ama.ab.ca/cgi-ebs/road_re...=00&path=1

You should also carefully consider the kind of vehicle you rent. You will probably need a SUV with high clearance, 4 wheel drive, and snow tires, or chains for some of the mountainous areas. This will be expensive, especially if you want to drop it in Vancouver. You might even be further ahead to buy one and sell it at the other end.

I think your trip will be a great adventure, but you should inject some realism into your planning. Good luck!

Laverendrye!!...finally the penny dropped....a fuzzy memory of Grade 6 Canadian history class... was one of the earliest explorers to attempt to cross the Canadian West...statue in St.Boniface? Nifty handle...ok back to trip planning everyone.

Did rental car companies not, at some point (and perhaps still) have a problem with vehicles driving the Alaska Highway? Isn't it inordinately hard on the suspension? I could very easily be totally wrong but I have a fuzzy memory of that highway causing all sorts of grief.

Thanks for all the great advice guys....it's really great to read and digest it. There's nothing better than realistic advice from people who know what they're talking about.

Taggie, you're absolutely right some car hire companies do not allow you to take SUV's into certain areas.....but equally there are some who do. My sister is a travel agent who deals in car hire....so she is being very useful on this.

BAK - The reason we want to do the arctic cirlce, and you're absolutely right, is to say that we have done it.

To put it into a little bit of perspective, my life's ambition is to make it to Everest Advanced Base camp.
I already have some of this trip in the planning and have sourced a company that can take me!

Yes, I maybe mad - my Gran always taught me that being adventourous is the most exciting thing you can do with your life. But along with this her and my grandad are the ones who took me ice climbing when I was 12 and taught me all the survival techniques that I know I am lucky to be equipped with. The ability to dig ventilated snow holes with cold wells, sourcing and distilling water, creating light and heat in adverse conditions.....these are all skills that I have been taught....and have needed all of these on at least one occassion in my adventures.

Back on topic: I discovered the Milepost book yesterday afternoon and will be ordering my copy today...and more ironically there was a program on TV last night about Alaska in the winter.

I really appreciate everyone's concerns for us.....and although you may think it is lost on us, I can promise you, it isn't. Having felt the realism of the severe cold in NH in January, we received our wake up call back then and the alarm bells will never stop ringing in our ears the whole time we are in Canada.

We have already started building our winter survival kit and this currently consists of:

GPS unit
Mobile phone
Compass
Survival blankets and heat bags
Firestarter/tinder in waterproof box
heat pads
torch
waterproof matches
Candles (in a can)
Emergency food for 3 days (inc mountaineering survival packs, Kendal mintcake-an english mountaineers sugar rush!)
2 polar sleeping bags
Small campers stove with firestarters
Thermal socks - 4 layer system
Thermal glove and Mitt system - 3 to 4 layers

Thanks for all the great advice guys....it's really great to read and digest it. There's nothing better than realistic advice from people who know what they're talking about.

Taggie, you're absolutely right some car hire companies do not allow you to take SUV's into certain areas.....but equally there are some who do. My sister is a travel agent who deals in car hire....so she is being very useful on this.

BAK - The reason we want to do the arctic cirlce, and you're absolutely right, is to say that we have done it.

To put it into a little bit of perspective, my life's ambition is to make it to Everest Advanced Base camp.
I already have some of this trip in the planning and have sourced a company that can take me!

Yes, I maybe mad - my Gran always taught me that being adventourous is the most exciting thing you can do with your life. But along with this advice, her and my grandad are the ones who took me ice climbing and took me on survival weekends and taught me all the survival techniques that I know I am lucky to be equipped with. The ability to dig ventilated snow holes with cold wells, sourcing and distilling water, creating light and heat in adverse conditions.....these are all skills that I have been taught....and have needed all of these on at least one occassion in my adventures.

Back on topic: I discovered the Milepost book yesterday afternoon and will be ordering my copy today...and more ironically there was a program on TV last night about Alaska in the winter.

I really appreciate everyone's concerns for us.....and although you may think it is lost on us, I can promise you, it isn't. Having felt the realism of the severe cold in NH in January, we received our wake up call back then and the alarm bells will never stop ringing in our ears the whole time we are in Canada.

We certainly will be watching the weather closely when we get out there, and we won't do anything stupid. We may want adventure, but we want it safely.....afterall.....we are on our honeymoon!!

Kind of ironic really....most brits prepare for a honeymoon by buying a new bikini.....we're buying expedition down jackets and survival bags......maybe you're all right....maybe we're mad!

Thanks for the advice on the hotels......you've really confirmed what I suspected and I would really rather keep things open so that we can go where the good weather is....I don't want to book a hotel and find that the weather prevents us from getting there.

ltt....you're right, the photo's of the Northern lights taken from Yellowknife are just incredible and they are probalby what are feeding our desire to go there.....having the highest chance of seeing the best northern lights in the world is just almost too hard to resist, 96% success rate across the year. When we get there we are probably going to do one the accompanyed photgraphic tours so that we are with people who can give us the right advice.

...and those of you who would like to know about our technical preparations for the trip, I won't bore you all on here, but I am happy to talk to you off the board about the GPS system that we are purchasing for the trip and the survial packs that we have.

Thanks guys.....keep the advice coming.....we don't want to miss out on any of the must see sights!!

Onto softer things....We're definitely doing the Hockey Hall of Fame!!Is there anything else that you would advise for hockey mad fans to do....particurlarly when there is on NHL to watch. We will definitely be taking in some women's games as I manage a team here in England. Does anyone have any experience of College teams and who we should go and watch?