boots08

<i>no wonder the pharmacutical companies throw obscene amounts of money and lobbyists at the somewhat mercenary members of the US congress</i>

How true, andrew!

<i>Andrew, bookchick and all of you. I would glady pay more in taxes if everyone in the US could have proper health care and if they would be covered for their health care needs.</i>

LoveItaly- my assumption is that, given the choice, most Americans would as well.

April- I was not aware that certain provinces charged a monthly fee. I am from Ontario and never had to pay a cent. But still, as other posters mentioned, the fee is comparatively miniscule to what our American friends pay.

In fact, next time I'm in Canada and hear anyone complain about our HC system, I'm going to <s>smack 'em!</s> cite some of your experiences here.

Bookchick- How horrible for you that you were almost rendered bankrupt throughout your ordeal . I truly hope your cancer is currently under control.

DaveJJ- Best wishes on your upcoming surgery!

Morningglory47

Ontarians pay a health tax, too, unless taxable income is under $20,000. But you won't be denied care if you haven't paid it.

http://bing.search.sympatico.ca/?q=O...&setLang=en-CA

laverendrye

Just to put things in perspective, the top rate for the Ontario Health Premium (for those with over $200,600 taxable income) is $900 per year. It starts at $60 per year.

Of course, the health system is also funded from general revenues by both the federal and provincial governments.

kodi

LoveItaly, Yes it did shock me to read what you paid monthly.
I truly don't know how the average American can afford such premuims.
I have an American friend ( another friend, Love!) who shocked me by telling me that even with insurance, she has to pay a deductable of $3,000 a year. Holy cow.

I may have said this earlier, but I have always had, what I consider to be, the very best care. I have not had long waits, and I have had excellent doctors who have saved my life on a couple of occasions.

Our system may not be perfect, but it's pretty darn good. It works for me.

LoveItaly

Hello kodi, yes $625.00 per month for all of those years is why I haven't been able to travel as I use to do, I still cringe with what I paid out. With my Medicare and supplement insurance it is now so much better and from what my insurance broker has told me and from what I have received paper wise it will be fine for 2010. But than, who knows? I have had good health care, that I will say, but the premiums I paid for all those years sure didn't help my financial situation as you can imagine.

joannemuriel

I don't know...that's a tough one. A couple of years ago, I almost had a knock down, drag out fight with a guy from Boston in a bar on a cruise ship, because of HIS telling ME all about health care in Canada. With all due respect, I am so sick of traveling abroad and having Americans shooting their mouths off about Canadian health care, when they have never even accessed the Canadian health care system! Unfortunately for that poor soul, I wasn't about to take it, and a 2 hour argument ensued. Being Canadian and generally polite, that was completely unusual, especially for me.

I had an MRI last week, fully covered. I waited a month for it. The last time it was booked, I waited 2 months, but I cancelled. My father waited 3 months for surgery, and another friend is slated for cancer surgery with one month's notice. Another had to wait 3 months for a biopsy...what can you do? My biggest complaint is that they're not fixing the lack of doctors. That's what we really need. And timely service at Emergency.

I would tell them about how much they pay per province, maybe. We pay max $54 dollars a month here in BC, nothing in AB, SK, NS, NB, PEI...I don't know about Ontario. For that, we see any doctor, or go to any clinic and get health service according to level of need (ie., if you need an operation, you get it).

In BC, I think they've frozen non-emergency elective surgery, so knee operations, hip replacements, and that sort of thing. (That's not good, but we all know, if you really need it, the doctor can get you in....)

My father had a prostate operation and 2 MRI's over the past 6 months, and that was all covered. Gosh, that would cost a fortune in the States, wouldn't it? I don't know how any American can argue with paying no deductibles to access a doctor and pretty much immediate care, if you need it. Living without health care is like living without a police force, or without an ambulance service, or a fire department, or public schools, or public libraries, or...or...these are all public services paid for by taxes, and health care is just a part of that. It's not mysterious or "socialized" other than it's a part of the public service. That's what I would say next time. "Would you get rid of your police force because its socialized?" It's just an excuse not to provide service because of the profits involved.

I have some good friends in WA who pay $250 deductible, and $600 a month for insurance, so when she broke her toe, it wasn't worth it to go to the doctor. It IS obscene that the US aren't willing to implement PUBLIC care when examples are ALL AROUND THEM. It's not brain surgery. Gosh, I could cross the border and show them! WE ALL could!

To be sure, things are not that bad here....and for that, I'm grateful.

joannemuriel

Also, Bootchick, you can always fly to Cuba...: ) Health care is free there for everyone, even the outsiders!

joannemuriel

Sorry, I meant to say "Bookchick"! (I'm tired...!)

Louvisa

As Carmanah said, the propaganda is rampant that we in America have the biggest and the best of everything, including health care. What many don't realize is that our healthcare costs twice as much as the Canadian system and that of most other major countries, and that in many other countries, the patient actually has more face-to-face time with the doctor. So much of our health care dollar goes to administrating our complex web of different kinds of coverage.

We live is Massachusetts. Premiums are based on the state in which you live and age. I'm in my 50s and mu husband is in his early 60s. We pay our own Blue cross premiums--$2100 a month for the two of us! Increased over the past few years have been at a rate of 15-16%. This is for an HMO with deductibles in the $150-300 range for many tests, $15-20 copays for office visits, etc. This does not include dental or prescription eyewear coverage, and with an HMO, we must choose from the approved list of doctors and only from those in our state.

A recent newspaper article reported that most Americans have no idea of the actual cost of their health insurance premiums. Health care costs in the US are approaching 20% of GDP. This cannot be sustained, particularly in light of our present economy and the aging population. We have to do something.

The efficiency of your Canadian single payer system makes it a much better value, and we have much to learn from the ways other countries manage their health care.



Unfortunately, we have been bombarded by misleading television and other ads sponsored by those who stand to profit by the status quo.

boots08

>><i>I have an American friend ( another friend, Love!) who shocked me by telling me that even with insurance, she has to pay a deductable of $3,000 a year. Holy cow.</i>

That's about the amount my family currently pays, Kodi. If one of us gets a bad flu or virus, or would like to get this or that checked out, we find ourselves calculating and prioritizing, and often holding back.

>><i>$625.00 per month for all of those years is why I haven't been able to travel as I use to do, I still cringe with what I paid out.</i>

Poor LoveItaly. I am cringing for you. I have the utmost sympathy for you and my American neighbours.

>><i>We pay our own Blue cross premiums--$2100 a month for the two of us!</i>

Shocking and obscene.

joannemuriel- I totally relate to your frustration when talking to Boston Guy. It's quite trying, isn't it. Even when you do explain, some still don't get it or believe it. I guess it all <i>does</i> sound too good to be true.

Ironically, we got into a similar debate with an American passenger on a cruise ship. The level of vehemence on his part escalated to the point where we felt we had to walk away. In reflecting on it, I'm quite certain it was fueled by the frustration he felt with his own country's lack of health care. (He was in a wheel chair and had suffered many health problems .)

You made an excellent point with the following, joannemuriel:

>><i>Living without health care is like living without a police force, or without an ambulance service, or a fire department, or public schools, or public libraries, or...or...these are all public services paid for by taxes, and health care is just a part of that. It's not mysterious or "socialized" other than it's a part of the public service. That's what I would say next time. "Would you get rid of your police force because its socialized?"</i>

I will definitely use that in my next argument. Thank you!

ShelliDawn

joanmuriel, I have had the opposite experience of you and Boston Guy. A couple years ago in San Diego I was talking with someone and when they found out I was Canadian was gushing about our great health care. I mentioned it was good, but it had its issues (as some noted above). She countered by asking if I would hesitate going to emergency because of a stab wound and I said no, of course not! Apparently she had a friend who was stabbed but didn't go to the hospital becasue he had no insurance. That's a system with issues!

LoveItaly

Good grief, Louvisa, after reading about your health insurance premiums I will stop complaining about my $625.00 monthly premium, which did not include dental or prescription eyeglasses either. If I had had to pay what you are paying I would have been one of the uninsured. That is horrifying.

knightrider

question?
If somthing go's wrong when you have a medical problem, can you put a lawsuet agenst your health care?

I feel, that our multi million dallar lawsuets has created most of our problems here in the USA.

It's got to the point where people feel it's their neigheors is responsable for their health care.

Morningglory47

Yes, we can sue a doctor or doctors or hospital. But I don't think the "rewards" of doing so are ever as high as they seem to be in the US.

krp329

Just to be clear, government-run Canadian health care does not include prescription drugs for most people (unless you are in the hospital), ambulance fees, eye exams or prescription glasses, dental etc. etc. Some people have supplemental insurance plans through work (with partial coverage or co-pays), or like Blue Cross, for coverage of some of these items.

Kiddo

As a recent example of the healthcare system in Canada, my BIL who is 66 went in for an angiogram. He had no symptoms of heart problems but has a family history of them so at the insistence of my sister agreed to be checked out. They found he had major blockages some 90-100% -- 2 days later had quadruple bypass surgery. He was in the hospital for about a week and is at home now and doing well. He was extremely happy with the level of care he received.

While we often hear the horror stories of our healthcare system we don't always hear the success stories.

learning2travel

Knightrider, a lot of American lawsuits are unsuccessful. I have a co-worker who had a sister who had some kind of stomach surgery. The sister's doctor didn't stitch the stomach properly, and gastric contents leaked into her system, became infected and the sister died. The family consulted with two different attorneys who stated they had no grounds to sue.

Likewise my younger sister had chemotherapy and suffered some side effects from it. However, her attorney said she signed an "informed consent" that she was told these side effects could occur. (Of course her alternative would have been to refuse chemo and die.) Sissy's attorney said she doesn't have a valid case. Many cases are "settled" out of court anyway.

Morningglory47

Aren't prescriptions free after 65?

krp329

I don't know - I'm not over 65. I don't think so, though - my 77 y/o father was recently talking about the prices of a couple of prescription drugs he needed. Perhaps some seniors are covered if they are under a certain income (sorry, my knowledge in this area is sadly lacking).

Also, another thing to consider - Canada's health care is not the exact same system all across the country... healthcare falls under provincial jurisdiction, so each province administers its own plan. Hence the differences such as BC charging a monthly premium (Alberta also did until a year or two ago - it used to be $44/month for a single and $88/month for a couple or family; there were also subsidies available such that a single making under about $15,000 a year paid nothing). There was also a news story recently about one or two provinces not covering a cancer drug that is covered by the others (Avastin? I'm not sure). And some provinces have de-listed certain procedures that are deemed to be not medically necessary. For instance, here in Alberta, the seasonal flu vaccine is not free unless you fall into a high-risk group (although many public health offices just give it out to everyone, without asking for payment), and mole removal for cosmetic reasons is also not covered (but "suspicious" moles are.)

However, even though the provinces administer the plan, the Canada Health Act stipulates that all Canadians are covered and that the plan is portable and accessible to all Canadians. So it is supposed to be similar all across the country. Provinces that are not as wealthy as others get subsidies or "transfer payments" from the wealthier provinces.

It's not a perfect system, but according to the World Health Organization, Canada scores better on most or all major health indicators such as life expectancy, neonatal and maternal mortality etc. when compared to the U.S. We also pay much less for health care, when expressed as a percentage of our GDP, than the U.S.

It boggles my mind that there is even any argument about the necessity of universal health care. Americans have "socialized" education and protective services - that is, all tax-payers contribute towards public education, and municipal services like police & fire departments, etc. ... why is something as essential as health care any different?

Gavin

Morningglory47: In Ontario (many or most) prescription drugs are covered for seniors as well as people on welfare.