As a Canadian currently living in the U.S. Midwest, recent conversations with my Americans friends and coworkers have often lead to the topic of health care. I am inevitably told that they’ve heard that Canada's health care system isn't as good as purported because there are long waiting lists of people needing urgent care.

When I’ve explained that might be true in the case of, say, hip replacement surgery, that isn’t the case with a life-threatening situation. (I use the example of my mother who was rushed into surgery days after a cancer diagnosis.) However, these same people will reiterate their original argument in later conversations.

To these, my husband will say something to the effect of "Okay, worse case scenario: you have to wait 8 months to get surgery for a non-life-threatening condtion when you're 80 years old. But for your entire life, you were able to walk into any emergency room or any doctor's office or any hospital and not get billed for any (non-cosmetic) medical care. Would you still say we don't have good health care system?"

Fellow Canucks- how can we explain things more clearly?

"how can we explain things more clearly?"

You can't.

Propaganda is alive and well.

People will believe what they want to believe.

Dear boots, our family has a middle age woman in Canada that is a very dear friend. She has had a mutltitude of serious health problems these last decades. We are always in awe regarding how quickly and how good her medical treatment is and because of her health care she is still able to work. I am not saying she wouldn't receive good care in the US but I would say with all of her health problems she would find it impossible to obtain health insurance. So if she was in the US she would have been bankrupted long ago.

When it comes to healthcare, some Americans let their brains freeze over and buy into the most absurd prpoganda. I think your husband put it all pretty succinctly. A 6 month wait for a hip replacement really is a pretty good trade-off for a lifetime of secure, guaranteed healthcare no matter what your income, employment status or social status.

as a us citizen who is in the process of becoming a canadian citizen, i was thrilled when i received my care card this summer. while my personal need is limited at this point, i have received my h1n1 vaccination ! due to a work related connection, my my family doc is located in a clinic that in some cities in the usa would be considered a "street clinic" in that many of the clients are living on minimal resources in the downtown core. it is a joy to walk in and see that first class health care in my new country is available to this population as it is to all canadians as a basic right.

this is based on a shared sense of responsibility in that we are all canadians. it also makes economic sense as health care is delivered in a more rational way here

i had excellent ( and extremely) expensive coverage in the usa. but i am much happy sharing these resources up here north of the 49th parallel!

cheers
AndrewDavid


ps hi nanacy

Thanks for your replies and insights.

Propaganda- ugh. I sincerely wish it was simply a matter of disinformation.

AndrewDavid-

Visited my doc this am for my annual check-up here in a big city in Canada. He knows me, my spouse and our daughter and all our med histories.

He can get us in to see any specialist anywhere in Canada through his 40 years of collegial networking: we have moved around a lot and put him to the test! I did live in a tiny town in a less populous province at one point and it wasn't quite as easy finding or getting to a doctor and, yes, folks did wait a bit longer. But I honestly don't believe that anyone died as a result: emergencies, including premature births were handled by emergency flight to a hospital in a nearby city.For free to the frantic parents.

The Canadian health-care system has its flaws: we don't pay our nurses enough, we will have a doctor shortage within 5 years if we don't advance money and we are slow to recognize the use of midwives and other specialist "health practitioners".

But weigh that against a system where I never have to pay an extra dime for a lifetime of dependable and timely care and intervention for childbirth, emergency heart surgery for my child, treatment of a chronic condition for my spouse and cancer for my Mum: WOW what a great system!

(PS, this too is propaganda, but it has the added advantage of being the truth)

I will chime in with my 2 cents.
Boots, I don't know how to explain things more clearly except for personal experiences.
I've had major medical problems and never once did I have to worry about the finacial side of it. I have always had the very best care and have never had a long wait.
So, for me, our medical system is wonderful.

As someone who was born in America, I'll chime in my 2 cents. I was diagnosed in 2007 with a very aggressive form of lymphoma. I was hospitalized for 7 weeks, spent 32 days in an ICU and 30 of those days on a ventilator. I work for a Fortune 500 company and have the top insurance package they offer. Despite that, I am responsible for 10% of everything and 20% of doctors' fees. Then there are the co-pays on prescription drugs. I have almost been bankrupted by all of this. I can go to any doctor I choose, however, and had no problem getting to the top guy in the country to treat me.

My aunt, by contrast, had breast cancer. (Ultimately, though, that's not what killed her.) She received chemo and was sent to Quebec City for radiation therapy. She paid not a dime.

I think it's obscene that a country as wealthy as the USA cannot and will not and has not provided some type of medical care for its citizens that would not involve being nickel and dimed to death, literally. It's always a good indicator to judge a society by how it treats its weakest members. (And yes, I'd love to move to Canada, but am experiencing a family situation in the States that prevents me from doing that right now.)

BC

Thanks for your thoughts.

I didn't fully realize how good we had it in Canada until we needed medical treatment in the US.

I got a scare a few months ago that required a check up and subsequent test. As if the anxiety of that wasn't bad enough, I was now contending with the psychological number of knowing the services weren't provided free of charge. A sentiment that was both foreign and disheartening.

I always remember these words of Michael Moore in Sicko: "No one should profit from health care."

If you think about it, the expression 'health <b>care</b>' denotes concern, providing needed assistance, compassion- something that should come without a price tag.

But on a positive note- the Obama administration is doing its best to institute a new health care system for our American friends.

And better late than never!

Remember our Canadian system is not free in that it is funded through taxation, personal and business. Canadians generally accept this and agree in this form of cost sharing for healthcare (complaints about high taxes and cost inefficiencies aside). I'm sure this is a factor in the U.S. debate, and that there are some who think of Government Healthcare as a form of welfare which they will be forced to fund through higher taxes. Some likely believe they won't benefit from it themselves - either because they currently have good company paid health insurance, or they are well-off enough to pay for their own medical needs. I would guess that at least some of those funding the campaign against Government Healthcare would belong to this group.

hello to you boots08,

i hope that mid western city is someplace interesting like chicago.

i received my first batch of prescription drugs yesterday. 2 were free and the rest i paid my clinic's actual cost ( no mark up; not even for admin!). that total cost was equivalent to the co-pay i had for the same medications in the USA under my very expensive private coverage. no wonder the pharmacutical companies throw obscene amounts of money and lobbyists at the somewhat mercenary members of the US congress

Both my parents are in the 80's. My father has had a quadruple by-pass (1991) and numerous related hospitable visits. My mother had both her knees replaced in the 90's. Had they had to pay for these surgeries they would have been bankrupted just as they were starting to enjoy their retirements.

I have had problems with my hip for a number of years. Last June I went to my physician for referral to an orthepedic specialist. I had that appointment 3 weeks later. It was confirmed that I was a candidate to hip replacement surgery. In August I had 2 appointments with the physiotherapist and occupational therapist on matters related to post-surgery. I will have my pre-operation appointment next Tuesday with surgery following on December 17th. I do not find this to be an 'extensive' amount of time to wait for surgery. Bonus...no bill.....no cost.

Hello Andrew! I have missed you and hope again at some point we can meet up. I think of you often.

Dear Canadians, I have Medicare with a supplemental policy through Aetna. That included prescription coverage however there is a $250.00 deductible for prescriptions. I was ill this summer. I had to pay $153.00 for 10 pills. Now that didn't bankrupt me but I imagine it would have been a problem for some people. My doctor visits and test were covered however (each with a $15.00 copayment) that I sure can't complain about. But if I had been younger and without health insurance I dread to think what the out of pocket bills would have been.

Bookchick, I had no idea you had such ghastly copayments, such a stress on top of all you went through! I am so sorry.

Andrew, bookchick and all of you. I would glady pay more in taxes if everyone in the US could have proper health care and if they would be covered for their health care needs. Our politicians waste so much of our tax money while our most needed people go without needed health care. It is immoral.

LI, I agree completely. Also, Montreal is so clean! Not a speck of refuse on any of the streets I saw. Yes, I would gladly pay more in taxes if it meant that all my co-payments would vanish! I am grateful for the coverage I have. If I hadn't any, my hospital bill would have been $371,741, my physicians' bills would have been somewhere between $25,000 and $30,000, and each outpatient session of chemotherapy (I had 4 of them) would have been just under $14,000. At least with insurance each of those fees were reduced and also, for the most part, covered.

All the American politicians claiming that we already have Medicare in place and that should do the job are NOT taking into account the following:
1) Medicare doesn't cover everyone.

2) ALL consumers of U.S. healthcare, whether they know it or not or want to admit it or not, are paying for those uncovered folks in higher rates of insurance and any/all hospital charges and doctor's fees.

3)There are tremendous inefficiencies in the Medicare program.

4)Because the uninsured and underinsured can't afford screening tests (colonoscopies, mammograms, prostate exams, and Pap smears, for example)diseases which could be diagnosed and treated early on and less expensively are now being diagnosed when the diseases are fairly well-advanced and very expensive to treat or cure.

If I were a legislator, I'd hate to have to explain to my constituents that I failed to vote for healthcare reform simply because I didn't think it would be "perfect" the first time through. Heck, our Constitution wasn't perfect, and that's why we have the Bill of Rights. If the quest for "just the right" healthcare bill drags on, how many more lives will need to be lost, how many more households will have to be bankrupt, before things change?

BC

Health care is not free here in BC. My husband and I pay nearly $100 a month, we pay for part of our prescriptions for half the year and we pay for eye exams. But we have both had serious issues and we didn't have to pay a cent for hospital care (just for the ambulance to get there).

I know some Canadians complain about waits but with our super-terrific, efficient doctor I have never waited more than two weeks to have a test or see a specialist. One time he had me into a specialist that afternoon and he in turn whipped me into the hospital for tests. So, I think it depends on the doctor. Ours is second to none at diagnosing and he knows how to get things moving.

April, if only I paid $100, I'd think I was in heaven. I pay substantially more each month JUST in insurance premiums, then my co-pays with each prescription/doctor's visit. Despite the fact my internist is very sharp, and I live in a part of the States populated with many good doctors and 2 teaching hospitals, my internist had difficulty getting me seen in a timely manner, in part because the University Hospital health system in my town is large and unwieldy and has many patients coming into it from all over the state, and in part because the type of cancer I have is so aggressive and grew so quickly.

From what I understand, the only time Canadians wait is if the surgery is "elective". (For example, you need a knee replacement, but you're not in danger of being permanently immobilized if you don't have one within the next week.) Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. One of my brothers is an eye specialist in Edmonton, but I rarely hear "the patient" side of things.

BC

I just want to mention, and bookchick this probably won't shock you but it may shock our Canadian cousins, for 7 years before I turned 65 years of age I paid $625.00 a month for my health insurance. That along with a $15.00 copayment each time I saw my doctor and something like like a $30.00 copayment to see any specialist. A major reason I haven't travelled as I used to do as my money went to the health insurance carrier. And except for one trip via ambulance (which I had to pay something like $750.00 out of pocket even though I live 4 blocks from the hospital ) to the ER where I spent about 10 hours I never had any hospital stays or any any serious medical problems. I just basically went to the doctor's office once a month for a B-12 shot as I need that due to a B-12 deficiancy. That charge was about $85.00 per injection so I would have been so much money ahead if I hadn't had health insurance but I didn't feel I could afford to gamble about not having it. Anyway, my dear Canadians, your system is certainly more civilized than ours is in the US. And who knows what the future will bring for us in the US.

I was just pointing out that in some provinces (2?) we have to pay a monthly fee. Some people seem to be under the impression that health care in Canada is completely free.

Bookchick, I'm sorry to hear about your cancer - I hope you're doing much better! Some Canadians do have to wait too long for critical operations. It just hasn't been my experience.

LoveItaly - $625! How does the average person cope? When my husband and I see groups of Americans on TV freaking out about a new system, we wonder why.

That said, we know someone, a Canadian, who went to a Mayo Clinic in the US and he thought the care there far superior to anything he'd experienced here. Maybe it is, if you can pay for it.

I was going to get a B-12 shot once, but it was going to cost $300.