Quote from a New Zealand car hire web site - is this true?

"In New Zealand you do not tip anybody. It is considered an insult, all staff should be paid a proper wage and should not rely on tips. For example at a restaurant the price on the menu is the full price and includes all taxes and staff pay."

We just visited for 3 weeks in January and we rarely left a tip. We were fortunate to hang out with some locals and other visitors from Australia and they only left a tip when the service was exceptional. Even then when a tip was left it was only a few dollars at most.

Case in point...one evening we went to a local restaurant in Te Anau but it was so busy that we could not find a table to seat all of us. They offered free delivery and since our apartment was within 1/4 mile we took them up on it. I was going to tip the delivery guy when he showed but our local friends said that it was very uncommon to do so. They said if we really felt the need to tip that it should be no more than 50 cents.

They do not want to create an expectation among waitstaff to receive tips. I was told that they receive fair wages for their work and that it is far above the average $3 an hour (not including tips of course) a server makes in the USA.

Yes, it is true.

I live in Auckland. In my experience (others are likely to disagree), it is now usual practice here to tip up to about 10% in any decent restaurant.

In more casual cafes, there is often a bowl on the counter into which customers might put a coin or two.

In taxis, I generally round up the fare to the nearest dollar or two.

Porters, ushers, hairdressers, etc, do no expect to be tipped.

Hi Mignonette

I will be one Aucklander who will disagree with you as I rarely leave a tip.

If it becomes an expectation then service levels are not necessarily going to increase. You may end up with the situation you get in some UK/European restaurants where the tip/service charge is built into your bill and you pay it whether you had good service or not.

A bit of an anecdote here. I was in London many years ago and eating at Bill Wyman's restaurant "Sticky Fingers" The service was truely appalling. We were a table of about eight and we only managed to get two beers each all night as we were ignored. The food took forever to arrive, was very average and served with a scowl. When the bill came we noted that the service charge had been added on. We took it off and said we did so because of the bad service we received. We left with our ears ringing with expletives from the waitress who served us. She was truely the worst person to have ever considered working in the service industry.

On the odd occassion that I do leave a tip it is for exceptional service. I have found that restaurant staff here do not expect to be tipped, though if they are they are very appreciative.

Staff are paid reasonably well here when compared with waitstaff in the US for example, and are not reliant upon tips. For instance if they work a public holiday they get time and a half and a day off in lieu, hence the reason that many restaurants charge a surcharge on public holidays to cover the cost.

I'm with Kiwi_acct on this, and the same rules apply in Australia. I fail to see any good reason why waiters should be tipped for giving "good" service - which is surely a minimum expectation - when other service industry workers such as ticket sellers, shop assistants and doctors' receptionists aren't.

Of course one tips in the US, because the system says that's how the staff get paid. Well, each to his own, but it strikes me as an insidious system that turns people into a class of licenced beggar.

If widespread tipping becomes the norm in this part of the world it will inevitably lead to pressure from employers to reduce wages. There's enough of that going on in Australia already.

Service Oz/Kiwi style is usually friendly, cheerful, and sometimes may not be all that fast. I'd rather have that than an obsequious "Hi-my-name-is-Jason-and-I'll-be-your-server-tonight" who, when you've spent all the money you're likely to, makes it very clear that you should vacate your table pronto to make way for the next clutch of tippers.

I do sympathise with American visitors who feel uncomfortable and "cheap" in not tipping - it's very understandable. All I can suggest is to keep the "when in Rome" principle firmly in mind.

Sorry, rant over.

I'm American and I absolutely love the NZ and OZ dining experience. It just seems so civilized to order (paying in advance at casual cafes), sit where you want and then leave when you're finished. I particularly like not being held captive while I wait for someone to bring around the check. Likewise, I enjoy not feeling that the waiter is eyeballing my table and wanting me to vacate the minute I finish eating.

It's also refreshing to be treated well as a matter of course, not because the person in question is merely angling for a good tip.

I live outside the US and every time we go home, we sort of groan and say "we're back in the land of tipping".

Not tipping does take a bit of getting used to for an American traveler, especially when you pay by credit card and the credit slip has a pre-printed space for tip. But hey, when in Rome...

I also love the BYO concept and wish it would catch on in the US.

BYO can make a big difference. Restaurants mark up their wine by anything up to 200%, and for all I know maybe more in some cases - the spirit of Ned Kelly is alive and well. Some allow limited BYO and skin you with outrageous corkage, but there are plenty of decent eateries that allow BYO with modest corkage rates, even if they do have a liquor licence.

I've heard Americans complain about slow service in Australian restaurants, though, so I guess it's a case of what you're used to. To me, "fast" and "good" aren't necessarily synonomous.

The European "service charge" mentioned by Kiwi_acct always sounds weird to me. Why not just bump up the price of meals by 10% and be done with it? It's not as though (apart from unfortunate experiences like his) you can decline the "service" component of your meal and collect your own dishes from the kitchen, is it?

Hi Neil -

I've found most corkage fees in NZ and OZ to be pretty reasonable, but we're not exactly high brow when it comes to dining out. I did run across a few restaurants in Napa, CA that allow patrons to bring their own wine, but the corkage was astronomical. It's as if they want to discourage the practice.

In my experience, casual restaurants in the US offer a very limited selection of jug wine and similar plunk, so I don't even bother. I'd happily pay a corkage fee for the privilege of sipping some decent wine during my meal, given the chance.

Sorry for hijacking Maria - back to tipping.

Hi there Neil

Have you been to a BYO with a screwtop wine yet and as such not required the waitstaff to open it, have you been charged corkage. I have not done this yet so I do not know how restaurants are addressing this development. Usually I forget to take a bottle and end up paying the inflated restaurant prices.

Before some of the European and US readers run into the streets shouting we are all philistines for drinking wine with a screw top. Australia and NZ in particular are taking to screwtops on wine like ducks to water. It means no more corked or spoiled wines, the flavour has not been too altered and there are no more issues with supply of cork. 80% of NZ wines and around 40-50% of Aussie wines are now screw top.

Sorry Maria, we have well and truelly hyjacked your thread.

Just reread my post and my spelling is "truly" appalling

Haven't tried that one, Steve - not sure you'd be on a winner there, though. The restaurant still has to provide glasses and pour, so I wouldn't begrudge them a reasonable corkage (cappage?)

A while back the Sydney Morning Herald ran a tasting of quite a few Oz & NZ screw capped wines vs. the same wines with cork closures. They concluded that only a few of the cork-topped wines were (marginally) ahead.

One of the most insidious habits I've seen in recent years is the growing practice of charging extra for vegetables, which used to be included in the price of a main course - an instant $6-7 price rise.

I agree with you Neil. Charging extra for vegetables is an annoying trend with some restaurants that is for sure. After all you go there to have a meal. Not a part of a meal. I have yet to meet someone who only orders the meat or fish part of a meal and does not want the rest.

Yes, Maria H, it is true. Do NOT feel compelled to tip. If you are treated exceptionally well in terms of service, then tip modestly - never more than NZ $5. Really, it is OK.

Kiwi_acct -

Personally I like the whole screw cap concept. I'll admit I thought it was weird at first, but now I'm a convert. Most of the wine we get here in Indonesia is from OZ and NZ and so we probably see more screw caps than the average American. BYW, we have taken a screw top bottle of wine into a NZ BYO restaurant, and we were charged the usual corkage (or should that be "screwage?).

Screw caps are popular in other countries as well, such as Switzerland. Don't think I've ever seen corked wine in Switzerland come to think of it.

On a recent visit in the US I saw Australian wine in a CAN. Now that, I don't think I can get used to.

Melnq8, maybe "screwage" is what happens when they charge you extra for vegetables.

When we were in Auckland and had really good service we asked the locls if they tipped. They did and we did too when the service was good. It seemd the norm where ever we went. There were people who did not tip but the majority did.

We never tipped in NZ, either.

>>Just reread my post and my spelling is "truly" appalling<<

Too many of those easy-to-open screwtops, Steve? ;-)

My favorite white wine is Villa Maria Sauvignon Blanc, which has a screwtop. Great stuff!

Lee Ann

poll162, how many people did you survey and what were the numbers on either side?

Darn Lee Ann, I am busted

Are those Sauvignon Blancs easy to get in the US?

I am a bit of a Shiraz/Syrah fan myself. Aussie ones in particular. But NZ Sauvignon is indeed very nice. If you can get it try some NZ Pinot Gris as well. You may well like the taste if you like Sauvignon Blanc.

We have majorly digressed from the theme of the thread, but I hope Maria has some assistance in how to handle (or not handle) tipping in NZ (and OZ) now.