Here’s the situation. Mr SB and I are planning to retire next year (we’re a wee bit over the usual age for that!) and get the Big traveling done first, before we get too decrepit. (In case it’s relevant, we’re British expats who have lived in the US for many years, and we LOVE to travel, see new places.) Australia and New Zealand have been on our list of Must See places for years, and we never had time (or $$) to actually go there before. Probably means we will only get one shot at this, so I’m feeling the pressure to plan it right. Where better to go for help than Fodors? ;-)

My thoughts so far: we’d like to travel in October/November next year – before the Au summer really hits, and we hope in time for spring. We’d like to be there for 5-6 weeks: say 3 weeks in Australia, 2 in New Zealand? (Nothing is set in stone at this point.)

In Australia, we want to see the GBR (Port Douglas?) and the Red Center (Uluru). We’d probably go there first because it will only get hotter at that time of year. Reading the Frommers guide made me question the wisdom of GBR and Uluru in October (too hot and humid, and stingers at GBR, they say.) But I’ve read more about that in other sources, and I think we can handle it. We’re not planning to dig any ditches or hike the desert, and goodness knows we can get hot and humid right here in the US. Your thoughts about that? Then we’d head south (maybe the Ghan train?) and go to Melbourne and Sydney for a few days each.

Next, fly from Sydney to New Zealand… and that’s where I’m out of plans. Could we see the South Island properly in 2 weeks? (We don’t expect to see everything!) I wonder if it might be better to focus there – or would we really be missing out if we don’t see North Island also? Haven’t done a whole lot of research yet, but we won’t be bungee jumping or hiking challenging trails – Mr SB’s knees are not up to that. We’d like to explore by car, see a lot of lovely scenery, eat some great food, drink good wine, maybe stay on a sheep farm and at a few B&Bs. We’ll fly back to the US from NZ.

I’m trying to strike a balance between seeing at least the highlights of each country, and rushing from A to B. We had a great trip to Scotland a couple of years ago, but we only stayed 2 nights at each location, sometimes less. It just felt too rushed to us, and we’d rather take time to appreciate where we are a bit more and really enjoy the experience.

Fire away! Your help and advice is greatly appreciated.

I know that a lot of people will jump on me for saying this but taking into consideration your ages and the time of your visit and your wish to see something of the real Australia and not just "where tourists go" may I make a couple of suggestions:
You "must" see the area around the GBR but in doing so you can also experience some outback from there either by going to Undarra Lava caves or taking the Savanna train through some different outback country. Plan on being in the GBR area for about one week because it will take you that long to take it all in as there are so many things to do and see.
I am one of a number of people who write on Fodors who would not bother to suggest going to Uluru ( Ayres Rock) because its just a rock in the middle of a desert and yes I have been there and its expensive to get to and expensive when you are there for accommodation and as you are from the US ( via UK) Uluru does in no way compare to Santa Fe, Taos, Sedona, the Grand Canyon, Canyonlands Utah, the Four Corners, and a host of other places.
The train is OK but it too is expensive and you really don't have the time to give up quality experiences for that train ride.
Tasmania should be on your list of places to go as its so very different from the mainland and rich is wildlife and Wilderness of a different kind from the GBR. It has World Heritage areas of a kind that are nowhere else and its so easy to get around and "do". Then you could fly or overnight on the boat to Melbourne followed by Sydney - all of those areas including Tasmania have got some wonderful wine areas with World Gold winning wines - Tasmania has the freshest, best and inovative food in Australia. I have just come back from Tasmania after a fantastic trip - it is very beautiful at present with all the Spring flowers in bloom and everywhere is lush, green and gorgeous. Tasmania alone needs at least one week.
Flying is the cheapest form of travel in Australia and probably is the best way to get around unless you have months up your sleeve.
There are many areas around Melbourne and Sydney which you would want to spend time in and I would suggest a car in Melbourne but not for Sydney. So those are my suggestions - fly to the GBR - then Tasmania - boat or fly to Melbourne - then to Sydney and onto NZ.

Hi SB_Travlr
NZ in November will be okay - certainly not too hot, our best weather is Jan-March (usually). It's mid Oct now and it's very cool and wet!
2 weeks in the south island will really mean you do the main touristy places only especially if you are driving (our roads aren't as good as yours)as to do it justice you would need almost twice that (I feel). Don't miss the nth island - there are some fabulous places - Taupo/Ruapehu, Bay of Islands, Russell. It's along way to come for 2 weeks, accomodation, food etc here is not expensive you can do homestays, B&B, motels etc to keep the cost down and stay longer. We are a friendly lot! Happy to help if you need specific information - have lived in both the Nth and Sth islands.

We retired this year...normal retirement age and spent 6 weeks in Australia and New Zealand - 4 in AU and 2 South Island NZ with two days in Wellington. We rode both the Ghan and the Indian Pacific and would highly recomment the Indian Pacific, it is the best of the two trips and a far better value for the cost. We also rented a car and drove ourselves which was great. We did fly two legs on Qantas and our International flights were on NZA which is a great airline.

We went to Western Australia, southwest corner, South Australia, wine regions; Darwin; Sydney and Cairns. The Perth and Adelaide areas were our favorite.

Read our Blog for what we did each day. New Zealand starts with the Jan section...Jan 9, we left Australia around Feb 23. There are pictures included in the daily write ups. It was a fabulous trip!

www.aroundtheworldin132days.blogspot.com

Go with the advice from ivenotbeeneverywhere except allow a bit more time for the area around the Cairns hinterland. Research the Atherton Tablelands and the Daintree area. However it all depends on the allocation of time to interests and I am more of an outdoors person than a city type.

I love the area around 'the rock' but you have limited time and it is a long way to go. Not cheap either.

Unlike “I’ve not been everywhere”, I’m a fan of Ularu, having been there four times, as the place just “gets” to me. I do think, though, that with the time you have available, it is a long way to get there, and not cheap. While we Aussies see Ularu as something of an icon, I don’t think you’d regret greatly not going there.

Tasmania is really quite small, and the ferry from Melbourne to Launceston (Tasmania) sails each night. While cabins don’t look cheap, they save one night in a hotel, so are not too costly. Try http://www.spiritoftasmania.com.au/fares/specials.html for info.

You can sit up overnight on the ferry, and there are business class type seats available as well.

If you can take 3 weeks in New Zealand that will allow you to see some of the North Island. Even with 2 weeks on the S.Island you'll have trouble seeing everything that you want to.

Unfortunately people tend to think that because it's an island that looks small on a map you can just zip around and see everything quickly. Not so. If you look at trip planning queries on NZ you'll see everyone struggles with not having enough time for what they want to see after doing a little research.

The diversity of scenery and climate is quite amazing and you get a lot of bang for your buck without having to travel excessively long distances. I would do a bit more research on specific sights and then fix the flight dates.

Hi SB,

Congratulations on your overdue retirement!

While you mention that you love travelling and seeing new things, and you're not planning on long hikes or bungy jumping, you don't tell us what you ARE interested in. That would be helpful.

I agree with I'veBeen & Saltaurius on the Uluru, but for all we know you could be into geology and Aborginal drawings, so this could be a highlight for you.

I think that you'd really love Tasmania and you have more than enough time to see it fully -- two weeks for just the South Island of NZ is certainly do-able.

The other possibility you may want to consider is going online to Tourism New Zealand & Tourism Australia's websites to find a Specialist in your area to help you with the planning process.

Hope this is helpful!

Melodie
Certified Aussie & Kiwi Specialist

Melodie, I thought we were the specialists! ;0)

Ivebeen - you ARE!

You're just not officially "certified" (although many people thought I was certified (crazy) YEARS ago - and not in a good way!).

Melodie

Have you considered a campervan? There's a thread on the New Zealand board that deals with that topic:
http://www.fodors.com/community/aust...ew-zealand.cfm
Here's a summary of our trip from that thread that may help you with pacing - we felt we had "covered" the South Island pretty well in two weeks.

"We travelled for 3 weeks by campervan/motorhome in Nov. 2006, and LOVED it. Two weeks on the South Island and one on the North Island. We had a 3 berth with shower and toilet from Adventure Campervans and it did have automatic transmission.
http://www.adventurevans.co.nz/23berthtoyota.php . The advantage of having S/T was huge if you, like us, are inclined to get away from others by not staying in organized campervan parks. We stayed in DOC camping grounds some of the time, and in an organized campervan park only once. Many places we could just back up to the ocean and enjoy the view, often with no one else nearby. Would be hard to do free-camping responsibly if you didn't have a toilet, though. The third berth (over the cab) came in very handy for storing our luggage. The dinette made up into a kingsize bed, and each day we just rolled the bedding up to the end wall of the camper and set up the table for the day. A nice feature for off-the-grid camping is the solar panels for replenishing the batteries. (The only things in our camper that didn't work "off the grid" was the microwave and the toaster.)

We had never travelled by motorhome before, and liked it so much that we are about to do the same sort of trip in Australia, but don't expect it to be so idyllic.

Here's a brief rundown of what we did and where we went:

Three Weeks in New Zealand - Oct. 27 - Nov. 18, 2006

Oct. 27 - 2 p.m. departure on United to DEN, SFO, crossing int’l. dateline

Day 1 - Sun., Oct. 29 - arrive Auckland 6:30 a.m., fly to Christchurch, arr. 9:50 a.m. Christchurch cathedral tour (Sun. 11:30), Indian restaurant lunch, Weekend Market, Art Centre, Botanic Garden, 5:15 evensong @ cathedral, overnight @ Stonehurst Accommodations.

Day 2 - Oct. 30 - pick up camper (Adventure Campervans), groceries, to Mt. Cook via Lake Tekapo (church), Lake Pukaki. ON @ DOC cycle camp on Lake Pukaki.

Day 3 - Oct. 31 - Mt. Cook, Hooker Valley dayhike, Old Ball Hut Road hike to view of Tasman Glacier , informal camp at DOC gravel harvest site at N. end of lake.

Day 4 - Nov. 1 - Cromwell, Kararau River bridge bungy jump site, Te Anau, Milford Road, Mirror Lakes walk, Gunn Lake nature hike from Cascade Creek. DOC CG

Day 5 - Nov. 2 - Chasm hike, Milford Sound Nature Cruise, foreshore walk, Marian Lake hike, overnight @ Deer Flat DOC camp

Day 6 - Nov. 3 - Te Anau, Lake Wakatipu, Glenorchy, Mt. Aspiring NP, Double Barrel walk, stuck in mud, ON Routeburn Shelter road end

Day 7 - Nov. 4 - Routeburn Track Hike to Harris Lake past Falls Hut, Glenorchy, ON 12 Mile DOC camp on Lake Wakatipu W of Queensland

Day 8 - Nov. 5 - Cardrona Road to Wanaka, Mt. Aspiring NP, Rob Roy hike, Haast Road, ON Lake Hawea informal camp

Day 9 - Nov. 6 - Haast Highway, walks at Blue Pools, Fantail Falls, Thunder Creek Falls, Pleasant Flats; Knight’s Point (seals), Fox Glacier, Gillespie Point on sea, informal camp along Gillespie Road by creek (views of peaks & glacier)

Day 10 - Nov. 7 - Franz Joseph Glacier, Flowing West film, drove up West Coast, lunch stop at Lake Ianthe (water refill), Ross Goldfields Interpretive Center, Hokitika, informal camp south of Punakaiki on road to sea

Day 11 - Nov. 8 - Paparoa NP Pancake Rocks & blowholes, Truman Track to beach, Inland Trail walk, Matai Tree walk, Cape Foulwind Seal Colony, Westport, Karamea, Nikau Palms walk & Scott’s Hill hike, DOC camp on Kohaihai River

Day 12 - Nov. 9 - Oparara Basin, Moira’s Gate-Mirror Tarn loop walk, guided hike through caves with sub-fossilized moa bones and glowworms, Crazy Pavement & Box Canyon caves, Oparara Arch, Big Rimu Tree walk, informal camp on beach at Little Wanganui River

Day 13 - Nov. 10 - Karamea (refill water @ Fresh Choice supermarket), Buller River Gorge, Motueka (ferry reservations), Kaiteriteri, hike down to Split Apple Rock beach, Marahau, illegal camping in TH parking lot for Abel Tasman Coastal Track

Day 14 - Nov. 11 - Water taxi up the coast to Bark Bay, hiked Coastal Track back to Marahau, drove to Queen Charlotte Sound, ON Aussie Bay DOC CG

Day 15 - Nov. 12 - Drove to Picton, ferry to Wellington, Cable Car, Botanic Gardens, Te Papa Museum, headed North, ON Tararua Forest Park DOC site

Day 16 - Nov. 13 - Tararua Loop Hike, Mt. Bruce National Wildlife Center, kiwis, drove to Tongariro NP, Taranaki Falls loop hike, informal camp by stream in NP

Day 17 - Nov. 14 - skipped Tongariro Crossing hike due to high winds, Lake Taupo, Huka Falls, Aratiatia Rapids, Craters of the Moon DOC park, Broadlands drive, Murupana visitor center, Whirinaki Forest Park, H Tree loop hike, Waiatiu Falls Hike, ON @ TH

Day 18 - Nov. 15 - Rotorua, Redwood Memorial Grove, Otere Falls (campervan was rear-ended), N to Coromandel Peninsula, Opoutere Beach, ON private RV park at beach

Day 19 - Nov. 16 - Beach walk, N to Hot Water Beach, Cathedral Cove, 309 Road to Kauri Grove, ON informal camp along Castle Rock Road

Day 20 - Nov. 17 - Coromandel Peninsula, cont., Square Kauri hike, Kauri Grove Hike, Firth of Thames, Miranda Shorebird Center, ON along Firth foreshore (free-camp)

Day 21 - Nov. 18 - rainy day, poked along shore to Auckland, Botanical Garden, returned campervan, 8:15 p.m. Air New Zealand flight across date line to SFO, United to DEN, home to Montana at 10:46 p.m. same day."

Hope this helps!

Thank you all for such helpful replies -- I knew I could count on you! You've given me a lot of food for thought, especially about whether to include Uluru.

My first thought was that NOT seeing it would be like coming to NY and not going to the Empire State Building -- but maybe not? It is a long way from the other places we hope to see. We'll give that some more thought and research.

I'm intrigued by the idea of going to Tasmania -- hadn't considered that before, not sure why...maybe just my lack of familiarity. ;-)

I'm also thinking about pushing the the trip to mid October so the NZ part will be in later Nov. Would the weather be warmer then? We're well used to cool-cloudy-rainy, even in New England this year -- but it's not what we really seek on vacation! I think GBR would be hot, but with plenty of access to pools/beach/water and a/c, shouldn't be an issue. Or do I assume too much?

Melodie quite reasonably asks what we actually ARE interested in. Kind of hard to sum up, but here goes: we just really enjoy travelling and seeing new places, new landscapes (and taking photos); meeting new people; beaches, swimming and snorkeling; walking as opposed to hiking; pubs; good food and wine; and music, art and history. How's that for a big list? Oh, and I should add relaxing on a beach with a nice pina colada. Or a cold beer. To give you an idea of where we like to travel, we've seen a fair amount of England and Scotland, Europe, Turkey and the Greek Islands, Israel, Alaska, train across the US, US National Parks, Hawaii and French Polynesia. (We've been working on our list for a few years now!)

In terms of value for money Tasmania is a better option than Uluru, Tasmania has great bushwalking, pristine temperate rainforest, excellent food and wine, and the most substantial convict sites: Port Arthur etc. Hobart is one of the earliest settlements alongside Sydney. Also in terms of animals, it's one of the best places to see marsupials--Cradle Mountain is fantastic.

Like Peter-S, I think Uluru is a very special place but with a tight itinerary I wouldn't prioritise it, but then it depends on how you like to travel and your interests. To use your own analogy I've been to New York maybe ten or twelve times and I've never been to the top of the Empire State Building.

Hi SB,
I'd be tempted to spend 10 days in FNQ (Far North Queensland) where you can have both Great Barrier Reef and some wonderful and diverse inland experiences, and the other 10 days in Tasmania for your 3 weeks in Australia. You could base yourself in Cairns and do day trips/overnighters or take 2 or 3 days and do a loop up to Cooktown and back through the tablelands. Easy, relaxed, not changing accommodation every day AND you have the flexibility to change plans to suit the weather if needs be.

Tasmania's a delight. Small enough to get around quickly, interesting enough not to want to. East coast is soft & lovely, reminds me of the south of England in lots of ways. West Coast wild & dramatic. Packed with beautiful scenery and history, lots of old buildings (well, by Australian standards - we're just babies, you know!) that are still in use, not razed to the ground as so many were in the 60's on the mainland when the wrecker's ball was king.

I'm a huge fan of Uluru, Alice Springs, but it can be an expensive diversion in times of time and $$. If you could squeeze another week in, I'd say do it - but you will get a taste of the colours & feelings of the "outback" in FNQ inland & especially if you go up to Palmer River & some of the old goldfields areas.

Lastly, I hope you have a wonderful trip and ... age is just a state of mind

Based on your interests your NZ itinerary would be quite different than the hiking centered fast paced campervan adventure.

For food and wine, more time around Marlborough, Waipara, Queenstown/Arrowtown and surrounding regions.

I notice that they did not visit Dundedin nor the Catlins, nor Arthur's Pass, nor Kaikoura, nor Stewart Island (well I haven't been to the latter, either).

For music art and history you're probably going to want to spend a bit more time in Nelson, Christchurch, and Dunedin on the South Island, and Wellington on the NI.

Dunedin has a wonderful albatross colony - I think the only one in the world so close to a city. There's a very interesting information centre and a viewing area where you can observe the albatross.

http://www.albatross.org.nz/colony.html

Just as a guide for you - tomorrow (17 October) it is expected to be 34 degrees in Perth. October and November and from there on, temps in Australia go up and up. Especially inland and in the North of the country. The further North you go at that time of the yr, the more humid it gets. GBR is a definate MUST. Go to Dunk Island, Hamilton Island or even gorgeous Stradbroke Island (further south). Tasmania will be more mild in the heat dept. As will the very South of WA. My suggestion is to do the GBR, see either Sydney OR Melbourne (not both), go to Tazzie and then skip across to WA. Beautiful place!! It's the biggest state with the most diverse of things to do. Winerys & beautiful coast lines in the SouthWest, the Giant Jarrah forrests, stunning colonial Albany (where some of the first convict ships arrived). Rottnest Island off Perth is to die for. Untouched paradise. www.rottnestisland.com Like nothing you'll ever see anywhere else. Very inexpensive too. And then further north there's Ningaloo Reef. Shark Bay. Kalbarri etc. WA is often forgotten, which is such a shame, because it really is worth the trip. Less commercialised than the Eastern States. Very true to the meaning of Outback Australia. If you need a place to stay in Perth, I can highly recommend www.exapt.com.au for short term rentals. It is run by a lovely lady who is from the UK herself.
All the best

Wow, this is all great, and very helpful. Now when I'm poring over the guidebooks and maps, I'll be able to hone in on specific areas instead of trying to take it all in at once. It's just too big an area for that!

Bokahra, interesting to hear about albatross (though it does always bring to mind that scene from Monty Python...) Would love to see them, and the penguins I've seen mentioned on other threads, too.

KimbyMT, thanks so much for taking the time to post about your amazing trip -- but that's way too ambitious for us! I'm thinking we'll probably rent a car, pick a few key NZ locations, and visit out and about from them. Works better for us than being in a different place every night.

mlbg, thanks also -- I'll make note of those names and get more familiar with the maps! At the moment, I'm not too well oriented to where things are in NZ. But learning that is all part of the fun of trip planning, which I really enjoy.

Really sounds as if we should just go for 3 months, but that's not practical... so we'll have to figure out priorities, and get the best use we can of, let's say, 6 weeks. It's certainly more time than many folks can allocate to vacation, so we're very thankful for that. Just have to keep some kind of eye on the budget, and make good use of points/travel rewards where we can.

There is an island off Hobart ( Bruny Island ) that has boat trips around it that go to the seal colony and depending on your luck and the day there can be whales, dolphins, Albatros practically all the time and of course you can see penguins in many areas around Tasmania either on the tours or just by yourself. When I was in Tassie last week a Leopard seal was found on the beach in the middle of Hobart and they are expecting a lot more Leopard seals to come in the next few weeks. Personally I don't like Leopard seals because they eat smaller seals and also penguins but they are are rare sight on Australian soil but look like they are making a comeback. The interesting thing about Tasmania is the range of other wildlife that you get i.e. Tasmanian Devils, Wombats, Possums ( lovely little things and not like the American Possum) Wallabies, and all the rest of the Australian animals. However for the most diverse, rare and interesting animals the area around the GBR is the best and particularly for birds which are beautiful and colourful. It is said that between Australia and Brazil they make up to 2/3 of the bird population but in Australian these birds live with and close to population centres so you interact with them all the time. As for rare animals the GBR has things like Cous Cous (sp??) Lemoroid Possums, Tree Kangaroos, Sugar Gliders ( particularly gorgeous) Cassowary and much, much more. Give yourself a real treat and arrange to stay a night or two at a B&B in the Daintree which has a little zoo which you have free access to anytime while you are there and its website is www.daintreewild.com.au Because it is a small place it is not on the main tourist routes because it is not sold internationally with Travel Agents BUT I stayed there and it was fantastic. This information is for all those Aussies as well who go to the Daintree as this is the best deal you can get I think as you can play with the animals whenever you want.

You've got me seriously thinking that I should visit Tasmania on my next trip -- in June. I'll post some separate Tasmania itinerary questions when I've done more research.

I LOVED the GBR area. The previous year, I didn't include that in my itinerary, thinking I wouldn't like it because snorkeling is not a priority. WRONG. The area is fantastic even if you never set a foot in the water. And speaking of which, doing a submersible sub ride at the GBR was phenomenal--FAR exceeding expectations.

Stayed at the INCREDIBLE Thala Beach lodge near Pt. Douglas. (Was only able to do so because of booking a "last minute" rate.) But ... the only wildlife we spotted in their natural habitat (besides birds) was one croc head in the Daintree River; a little snake at Cape Trib; and a few drunks at a bar in PD ;-) However, we got up close and very personal with a tremendous array of birds and marsupials at the Rainforest Habitat.

NZ is so beautiful and there's so much to see. You have to accept that you are NOT going to "see it all." Choose what appeals to you the most.

I'm a nature lover and don't care about wineries. For me, the NZ highlights would be: Queenstown (and surrounding areas -- including Mirror Lakes en route to Milford Sound); Abel Tasman; and the volcanic parks surrounding Rotorua.