copen

The Jenola Caves sound fantastic. Would it be advised to rent a car in Katoomba, drive to the Jenola Caves resort and stay the night? This way, we could be at the box office bright and early for the best caves. Is this attraction worth all of the extra effort/driving?

Thanks,
Dave.

johhj_au

well Dave, imho if you have seen one limestone cave you have seen them all...."tites fall down,mites grow up" stuff

Take the train up and back from the Blue mountains.Use the extra time in the Blue Mountains to do the Blue Gum forest walk at Blackheath.

Alan

Hi, copen!
I guess whether you think the Jenolan Caves are fantastic or just average depends on where else in the world you have seen caves.... certainly these are as good as it gets in NSW (even though there are two other caves formations not far from Sydney -- the Wombeyan and the Abercrombie -- and they're pretty good too, but they get so little publicity that they may not even be open to the public anymore.

One thing is for sure about Jenolan -- it DOES matter which caves you see. The "easiest" cave is the Lucas; few steps, wide walkways, no surprises. In peak times they don't worry about guided tours of this cave -- they just take your tickets at the entrance and leave all the lights on. It's the one tourist buses often include in their itineraries because no matter what time they arrive, you can always go straight in. However, while it's the one most people see, it's one of the least interesting. The Orient Cave, the Temple of Baal, the Skeleton Cave, and (I hear) the Ribbon Cave -- these are a different story altogether. They take a limited number of people -- as little as a dozen at a time in some caves -- and you must be escorted by a guide, whose commentary is half the fun. These don't open nearly as often as the Lucas or the other "old stanby", the Right Imperial, so your hunch about getting there early in a hired car is exactly right. I think you can do all your bookings in advance nowadays on the Internet, but not all the visits are listed -- they open caves, it seems, depending on who's on duty and the whim of the guides (and how many pewople are hanging around the ticket office), so there's a fair bit of improvisation going on daily. But, anyway, even if this were not so, arriving at Jenolan around 8 a.m. after a quiet two-hour drive from Katoomba is a very special experience, especially in autumn. The short answer to your last question, then, is YES: it is definitely worth the effort and driving (that's not to devalue johhj's suggestion of the Blue Gum Forest, however; it, too, is a fine day out if you have time for it, and a good way to escape from other tourists, few of whom have ever heard of it).

copen

This is great feedback.

Johhj, can you elaborate on the Blue Gum Forest? Indeed, I've never heard of it.

Alan, to clarify, I was considering driving to Jenola from Katoomba the night before. I would then wake up early at the Jenola Caves resort hotel, which I'm assuming is right by the cave box office. So, is it worth it to stay at that hotel, or to stay in Katoomba?

Thanks,
Dave.

mpoll

Hello,

Its certainly worth visiting Jenolan Caves. An option is to drive to the caves in the afternoon and take one of the late afternoon tours. That way you can take another tour the next morning if you really enjoyed it. Its also a good base for bushwalks in the area. They have great dinner, bed and breakfast packages staying in Caves House. We were there in january and had a great time.
See www.jenolancaves.com and www.jenolancaves.org.au for descriptions and tour times/prices.

Carrabella

In my youth, I walked down into Bluegum
Forest and camped overnight - indeed a magic place. For a while in the eighties I think it was shut for camping, due to overuse. It is a very steep climb down, and back, from Perry's Lookdown, near Govett's Leap, closest town Blackheath.
I think the Jenolan Caves are worth the drive for the entrance,with its rock wallabies as well as the caves -there are some nice short bushwalks around there too, as I remember.

Copen - it is Jenolan, not Jenola . Alan's advice is very good.

Alan

Hi, again, copen!

Indeed, the Jenolan Caves House is right opposite the ticket office, so you could certainly be first in line for tickets. What's more, it's a nice (though expensive!) place to stay, something out of the past (and out of Great Britain, from the outside). The one problem I can see with your idea of driving to the caves in the afternoon is the road to the caves itself. The last thirty kilometres are narrow, full of hairpin bends, and a bit scary if you're not used to driving on the "wrong" side of the road. Going early in the morning, it's fine... no one is likely to be coming the other way. However, in the afternoon you will be going "against" the one-day tour buses, all of which are too big to be using the road anyway (though that doesn't stop them for a minute). It could be a pretty hairy journey... suddenly, as you round a bend, there is a bus almost as wide as the road. Now, you can avoid this problem by going after dark -- in that case you can see the lights before you see the vehicle, and you know to slow down (or pull over). But going at night means that you miss the beautiful countryside which is part of the experience (however, there's another advantage of night travel -- you get to spend longer in Katoomba, and you can go to Blackheath and do at least part of the Blue Gum walk, timing it to be back at your car just before dark).

Whichever way you decide, I think you are bound to have a fine time -- but please drive very carefully -- the road to the caves was cut a long time ago, and it is just not amenable to widening to meet the requirements of modern tourist buses.

copen

Thanks for all the replies.

Alan, I'll definitely keep the width of the road in mind when we drive up to the caves from Katoomba. I think we'll stay at the Caves House, though, since I don't want to wake up at the crack of dawn to drive two hours to the caves. Might as well just stay in Jenolan.

How far is Blackheath from Katoomba. Could we fit in the whole Katoomba experience with Blackheath in one day? Also, the hike sounds pretty harsh. We're in good shape, but I don't want to get injured at the beginning of our trip! Is it that steep?

Thanks,
Dave.

Dave.

johhj_au

Dave
the issues in a two day trip to the blue mountains with a visit to Jenolan were "examined" in a thread called "blue mountains excursion" a month or so back.

Blackheath is about 5 miles west of Katoomba.It has a good national parks office and exhibit.Perhaps you would be better off to do a short walk along the cliff top at Blackheath to check out the magnificent upper grose valley.The blue gum forest is a place of great natural resonance...a true encounter with the aussie bush...but it is a tough walk getting out.

If you get away from sydney on an early train you can do Katoomba and Blackheath in a day.Be nice to Alan..he might give you a hand..take you down to see the roos at Euroka cleariing.

Alan

Euroka is a nice idea, too, but I really don't think it makes a lot of sense to do Euroka AND Katoomba AND Balckheath all in a single day, as the beauty of the Mountains is the leisurely pace you can travel to "drink in" the surroundings. There are so many nice places... for instance, a walk at Lawson takes you to a junction where three waterfalls meet. There are walks which take you under waterfalls. The Blue Gum Forest is a great walk, but the last time I did it, I recall that it took a full day, and the "deeper" you go, the better it gets, which doesn't make it ideal for tourists combining it with other activities. I think I agree that the best way to treat Blackheath is to walk along the top of the cliffs for twenty minutes.... if you're going to go "down" (as you should!) then probably Katoomba or Wentworth Falls is the place to do it, as it's a bit easier and a bit shorter.

Blackheath is a little closer to Jenolan than Katoomba, so the driving time in the morning would be about 15 minutes less. Mount Victoria is a bit closer again, and there's a great old hotel there where you can stay. Along the road to Jenolan there are a few other places to stay -- before you get to the winding part, which is only the last 40 minutes -- and they might also be worth staying at instead of Caves House so that you can make the most of your day in Katoomba and not have to drive to the Caves at the crack of dawn. There are a few sites you should look at:http://www.jenolancabins.com.au/

http://www.bluemts.com.au/business/default.asp
http://www.jenolancaves.org.au/

http://affiliates.travelhero.com/ind...AVES/aid/1609/

Hope this has been of some help. The golden rule for driving to the Caves remains: try to go in when no-one is coming out; try to go out when few people are coming in.

AndrewDavid

Dear Copen,

I was involved in one of the earlier Blue Mountain Jenolan Caves threads( w/ a detour to Oberon and the Giant Trout) After weighing the options: the caves are bookable in advance, the cost of Caves House ( too high for us) and travel times per Alan and Johnj rec's we decided on staying at Mt Victoria 40 minutes from the Caves.

We reserved at the Albert and Vctoria Guest House ( where JFK recuperated after PT 109) rooms w/ shared bath are $AU110 and rooms w/ en suite are $AU140 including buffet breakfast, (always a chance to pack lunch off it as well.)
We'll be there April 17 and 18 the last week end of school holidays.
AndrewDavid

copen

AndrewDavid,

Just curious: how did you book the caves ahead of time? This certainly saves on the whole 'drive to Jenolan early' situation.

Also, am I missing something on the Jenolan Caves resort rates? At their site, the 'low rate', which is anything but holidays and Saturday night, starts at $95 AUD. Even the high rate is at $125AUD, which sounds comparable to the Albert and Victoria Guest house you'll be staying at 40 minutes away.

http://www.lisp.com.au/~jenolan/rates.htm

Are you staying in Mt. Victoria for the location or for the price?

Thanks,
Dave.

johhj_au

Strike me roan, A/D.
There are thousands of victoriana guest houses in this world but only ONE big trout motel.

Alan

Hi, copen!

It's more than forty minutes from the hotel at Mt Victoria to Jenolan! About double that, in fact!

You can book the caves online by using the site I gave you above (www.jenolancaves.org.au). Hit "pricing" to see which ones you want to buy and the times they normally run, then hit "online reservation". Remember, however, what I said above: the last time I was there, as the ticket office opened, all those cave tours were on the board, and then they started to add extra "surprise" ones, probably because they had more customers waiting (or prebooked)than places on the advertised tours. The "extras" were often the rarest and most fascinating ones.

Your stay in Mt Victoria is, indeed, far from cheap; both it and Caves House are quite lovely old places, and the main reason you might like to stay in Mt Victoria is to better-utilise your day in the very scenic areas of Katoomba and Blackheath -- if you're going to Caves House for the night, you may feel a bit edgy about undertaking such a long drive in unfamiliar territory in the middle of the night, and consequently leave Katoomba earlier than you'd like to. And, also -- as I think I have already mentioned -- the drive to Jenolan at around 7 or 8 in the morning is particularly lovely and invigorating, mainly because you won't see or hear another soul, but you will see lots of galahs and cockatoos. Driving in the early evening with tourist bus after tourist bus shining their lights in your eyes as they come out (and there are dozens visiting on some days) will not have the same charm.

If you want a CHEAP and lovely place to stay in the Blue Mountains, I recommend the Grand View Hotel at Wentworth Falls. I think the rooms there are around $AUD60 a double, and, as you will see from looking at the photo on their website (http://www.thegrandviewhotel.com/), you are getting a lot of class for the money.

Hope you have a great time!

Carrabella

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/newsevents...e03122003.html

I just checked this site, as I remembered hearing about the road to Jenolan being closed. It's OK - it was last December, only at night, and so should be OK now. But this information may be of interest, and also the "home" link to the RTA (Road Traffic Authority) for further information on local roads.
I also checked that Wentworth Falls Hotel - it looks lovely. It's a bit south of the major areas round Katoomba, but there are also wonderful lookouts there.Sublime Point comes to mind.
When I saw the Grand Canyon, in a way I was reminded of the Blue Mountains - not the flora, but the structure. But it is said the the Blue Mountains were as they are now (development excluded) when the Grand Canyon was just a stream on the top of the plateau. Isn't that an amazing concept?

stevew

Greetings Dave

In addition to all the fine tips you have already received, we thought you might want to look at the Crystal Lodge in the Blue Mountians. Great place to relax, a lot of locals and folks from Sydney escape to Crystal Lodge. We spent 2 days in the Blue Mountains and another day at the Jenolan Caves.

The Crystal Lodge is a spa/retreat with a wonderful staff.

Alan made some great suggestion for our itineary which we followed and had a great time.

When you take the tours at Jenolan, look for Mr. Ford. He is a great tour guide and not a bad stand up comic either.

Cheers

Steve