guaranteed

Just a comment.....
There are wonderful suggestions on this site, regarding a trip to Australia.
BUT, hardly ever is $$cost$$ mentioned.
I have been to Australia about a dozen times, and I really feel that Australians think that if you are coming over here from North America, then you will want to shell out big bucks to see the best that Australia has to offer. FAIR ENOUGH ! But I guess I am in the minority...the cost is important to me.
This site is not budget friendly. Sure I want to climb the Sydney Bridge , but not for a couple of hundred dollars.
Most of my Australian friends are extremely budget conscious when it comes to travel. But you would never know it here.
Sure I can go to Lonely Planet and a few other sites for budget info, and that's just fine. But I really feel this site isn't that useful to me, because cost consideration doesn't seem to be an important factor, when Australians here are giving advice to North Americans.
I noticed a big perception change re North Americans after the Olympics - in my opinion, Australians got this concept that North Americans will pay anything for a quality trip. You can still have a great time in Australia, by being budget conscious - but you wouldn't know it by checking out this discussion board.

Just a comment...that's all.

ALF

I don't know - I consider myself a budget traveler, and I feel that I've given some advice here on less-costly accommodations, travel, and attractions. I have touted the cabins in the campground vs. the hotels in Yulara. I've pointed out that you could visit the Ayers Rock Observatory instead of doing the Sounds of Silence Dinner. I've advocated for drive-it-yourself trips instead of tour packages. Certainly there are the, "Which 5-star Hotel in Sydney" message threads, but I also think that I've seen a number of topics that deal with how to travel more economically.

LizzyF

We are NOT travel agents and in most instances we don't use most of these tours, hotels etc so would not know the prices or comparisons in prices. We answer questions - no more no less and you should not be expected to provide costs etc for people are quite capable of finding that information out for themselves.
The perception by Australians of Americans is that we think you probably do not have as good as standard of living overall as we do and because you do not pay wages to a lot of hospitality staff you can therefore charge a lot less for some things i.e. restaurant meals BUT in many instances your meals such as from Denny's or Wendy's are pretty dreadful for the money and our Pub meals would be way ahead in value and taste.
Is that the perception you get?

Melnq8

My spouse and I aren't bare bones budget travelers, but cost is very much a consideration when planning our trips to Australia and NZ. AND I always include prices in the trip reports I post here.

We're not ones to splurge on expensive hotels - it's just not something we care to do. Both Australia and NZ are full of value for money lodging options. Personally, I enjoy seeking out privately owned cottages and self catering apartments. It's how I prefer to travel AND I feel I get much more value for my dollar.

We're not foodies either - we don't seek out fancy restaurants - we're much more content with casual cafes, inexpensive meals, and goods we pick up at local shops.

As for airfare, well, we use our accumulated miles whenever and however we can. If we score say, free business class tickets to Christchurch (as we have for March), we're more inclined to spend a wee bit more on lodging, etc.

Not all advice on this board comes from Australians; a good deal of it comes from those of us who've visited Australia. And yes, some of those travelers spend a lot of money. My theory is that many Americans/Canadians only get to Australia ONCE, and many of them only get two weeks vacation per year, so they want to make the most of their trip. If that means paying big bucks to walk across the Harbor Bridge, fly to Uluru for a day or take a helicopter to the top of a glacier, so be it.

Do we travel that way? No, but we've been fortunate enough to make several trips to Australia and NZ.
We've gotten the big tourist sites out of our systems (some never interested us to begin with) and we're now more interested in slow travel, spending more time, not necessarily more money.

I find this site helpful to all budgets. Many of the Australian contributors are quick to point out how cheaply one can eat in their city, or which lodging offers the best value in a given area, etc.

I'm sorry you've found Fodor's unhelpful - I truly believe that if you hang around long enough, you'll find some real gems here and plenty of budget friendly information.

sunsurfsand

I would like to point out to the poster, that we Australians pay the same price to do the bridge climb etc and everything else.
I personally am always pointing out the value etc of staying in youth hostels. I am a life member of the YHA and have stayed in hostels all over the world as well as at home.
The YHA in Australia is dedicated to inexpensive accommodation for all as it wants to spread the good word about budget travel.

prue

Actually I am always amused that in many instances it is Americans advising Americans what to do when in Australia!

Melnq8

Hi prue -

This very subject came up on another forum recently.

Personally, I'm more inclined to offer advice and share experiences on places I've visited, rather than on places I've lived.

Visitors and locals are both invaluable resources, but sometimes on entirely different topics.

It's been my experience that unless they're in the tourist industry, many locals (regardless of country) don't give a hoot about tourist attractions right in their own backyard.

I'm from Colorado and I'd be hard pressed to offer any advice to potential visitors about skiing (I don't ski) or offer any suggestions about Cave of the Winds, the Royal Gorge, the Air Force Academy or the Pikes Peak cog railway. I CAN however, suggest restaurants, driving shortcuts, off-the-beaten path snowmobile trails and similar insider tips that the average tourist would know nothing about.

I currently live in Indonesia, yet I couldn't tell you squat about Bali. However, I know more than I should about Singapore, as I go through there 6-8 times a year.

Visitors are highly influenced by the media and what they've heard. Americans who visit Australia seem to have a set idea of what they should see. The same holds true for many Australians who visit the US. I see it everyday on the US forum - Aussies who go to the states and visit places I'd never even consider as an American.

Whatever works...

afterall

I sort of agree with you, guaranteed. But I don't think it's Australians assuming Americans travel expensive, I think, from the questions they ask, it's because Americans generally do.

If anyone has the time to do an analysis, then we would all have the facts. But my gut feeling is that c.90% of US posters visiting this forum want to stay in resorts and eat in expensive restaurants.

That's what they want.

I've recommended hostels, and pubs, etc whenever it seemed there was the slightest chance that it might be of interest. Ditto, budget airlines, and the possibility of plugging into the "backpacker", or "alternative" circuit.

I don't think I've ever had a response to indicate that a poster had thought "hey, that's worth considering". They inevitably give more credence to the opinions of other US tourists. And they, of course, do the usual circuit and stay in the posh hotels.

We shouldn't knock it, I guess. Those posh resorts and hotels must get their guests from somewhere. And if folk from overseas have no curiousity and no adventurous spirit that's up to them.

But still, it's sort of sad when someone who sounds as if they are up for something a bit different, ends up doing the same old thing.

afterall

...and of course, there is the "I am coming to Australia for 8 days, 12 days" syndrome.

Again an analysis is required, but I'd bet that 95% of US visitors come for less than 2 weeks (and some of them seem to think they can visit NZ is that time too).

There's nothing to be done. Just let them get on with it.

Neil_Oz

I've been contributing to this forum for a few years now, and have visited and/or corresponded with quite a few Americans as a result.

In my experience, while most Americans who've enquired here are interested in pleasant places to stay and a few good restaurants, they are no more haunters of expensive resorts and posh eateries than Australians like me who've spent time in the US. Still less could they be accused of having "no curiousity (sic) and no adventurous spirit", which I have to say is an offensive and mean-spirited remark.

The reason most Americans visit for two weeks or less is quite simple and I would have thought common knowledge - that's how much annual vacation leave most American employees get, often on a "use it or lose it" basis.

(afterall, do you have an anti-American cousin named chimani, by any chance?)

pat_woolford

I don't think for a minute that Australians think that "if you're coming over here from North American, then you will want to shell out big bucks.........etc".

I talk to North American tourists nearly every day and have done so for years, many have said that the Sydney Harbour Bridge climb is out of their budget and often compare it to a day on the GBR, which can still be done for as little as $74. Easy to find on web.

We have to assume that posters have done some research into prices of tours, accommodation, so if someone is asking about a 5 star resort in say, Port Douglas, I'm not going to tell them about the local backpackers or a motel. Australians here are forever advising posters to check wotif for last minute cheaper accommodation prices.

And afterall, many North Americans do not stay in "posh" hotels, they make up a huge percentage of bed & breakfast occupancies, at least in the tourist area where I live in Australia. Also easy to find on web.

cathies

I wouldn't necessarily make that assumption and always have a budget when I travel, however I did just make some suggestions about doing the Harbour Bridge Climb to another poster asking for their itinerary to be critiqued. Given that they mentioned twice that they were flying first class to Sydney, I figured that in their case $ wouldn't be a problem. Once the suggestions are made it's easy enough to do a search and work out if you can afford it.

cathies

And now that I've decided I'm really annoyed...... we are travelling to Europe in May/June (yes we saved up and yes we are on a budget). We have booked a mixture of budget b&s and slightly luxurious accommodation, mostly recommended by other Fodors posters. Travelling is surely about experiences, some of which don't cost any $ and others that do. Personally i think that if I was travelling to Sydney, then the Harbour Bridge Climb is not to be missed, to hell with the cost!

oliverandharry

Although we're Americans, we are blessed to have much longer vacation time since I'm an academic and my husband has been with his employer 30 years and now has nine weeks off. Our three trips to Australia have been a month each, and if you can afford that much time in being there, you can't make the high end choices everytime. While we like nice accomodations, I'm not paying the freight for a room directly on Sydney Harbor, but I have been to Heron Island. I'd love to consider the Daintree Air trip that comes so highly recommended, but nearly $1000 for a one day activity gives me pause. A higher price for a several day live-aboard trip in the GBR feels like more value. We have found smaller hotels, apts. and B&Bs all over the place which have been more budgetwise and comfortable. A poster here recently recommended a luxe harbor-facing hotel in Hobart where she could almost touch the nose of the cruise ship from her window - a notion I find terrifying. As many of you have noted, most folks here are first timers looking to do the max in the small time they have. Perhaps they've saved years to do this - and will not be able to return. But one of the great benefits of reading and writing here on Fodor's is the ability to get a great idea to investigate more - and see if it fits your budget. I wish other folks would share their in-depth experiences like Lizzie, Melnq8, Sally and pat_woolford consistently do - it's what makes this a rich place all around!

irecommend

I think this may kind of boil down to the fact that we in North America we are used to having most things available to us at prices that are relatively low.

I just returned from Aust/NZ and was surprised at the extremely high prices for consumer goods and restaurants. Grocery store prices seem more or less in line with ours. But clothing, gas and housing were very high. Even wine was way more expensive there for the wine made there than it was here.
Therefore when locals are recommending things to North Americans they may not realize our perception of prices is different from the reality there.
We are very lucky right now to have low prices here. It surely will not last with the economy showing signs of the recession.

Jayna

Kind of random comment from me and kind of not...

I have to say that when I (re)visited Australia late last year, I was surprised how "flexible" rates were for things. As I'd budgeted for a decidedly lower exchange rate (and saw it rise/fall by more than 10% while I was there), my budget was blown.

But many non-corporate-owned establishments (be it hotels, tour operators, or bookstore owners) would give me a decent discount if requested, especially when I cited the falling USD...

Jayna
travels at www.ususbaby.com

LizzyF

irecommend, please note that it is not our fault that your $ is not doing very well and therefore you do not get a good deal with your bucks at present. Restaurants prices in Australia and NZ seem higher to you because the consumer is not having to pay for the wages of staff as in the USA and time and again this discussion has come up about prices and I really do not agree with you that they are higher here when there has been so many suggestions on where to get a great feed in just about everywhere in Australia without paying high prices but most of the time no one seems to take any notice. Finally our wages in Australia are in the most part much higher than the USA and we do not pay through the nose for health costs as you do, nor do we pay an arm and a leg for local taxes as you do. Sydney house prices are about the same as San Francisco but the rest of the country is on a par with the most cities in the US. My comparisons come from many trips to the USA and from living in North America and from my next door neighbour who is American. One thing that I find is that some Americans think that anywhere outside of America is probably a third World country with prices to match and are surprised to find that that is not the case here and NZ that again is not our fault either. If I earnt what is an average wage in the US I would not want to pay much for anything either. We have a greater home ownership than you do in the US, our homes are mainly single houses on their own block of land, the % of people in mobile homes in Australia and NZ is about .001%, Our disposable income is one of the highest in the World and finally Australians and NZers are the most travelled people in the World with about 80% of the population having a passport. Finally EVERYONE is covered for ANY medical emergency and there are no cases or people going bankrupt over medical costs. Making an assumption over a couple of comparisons in the cost of a couple of things is not helpful to anyone. If you think there is anywhere in Australia that charges the high prices of accommodation for less than basic hotel rooms as does New York then please tell me where. You can still get a lovely hotel room in a fantastic position around Circular Quay in Sydney for $100US per night - multiply that by about 6 for NY city. But most of the time are we asked to suggest hotels run and owned by Australians ....... no... more often than not people want the same old Hilton/Sheraton/Marriot/Hyatt etc as they can get in the US... a US Hotel in an Australian location for a US price.

Neil_Oz

Overall it would be surprising indeed if Australian prices were NOT higher than American. What I find surprising is that the gap isn't larger.

By the time one adds 20-25% in tip and sales tax to a US restaurant bill there may be a difference, but it's hardly dramatic. Another factor is the proliferation of BYO eateries in Australia, which can save you the markup on wine (which in US restaurants can be very high).

I agree that it's cheaper to eat at the lower end of the scale in the US. If you're on a budget you can do pretty well with big inexpensive breakfasts, a bagel and coffee for lunch or even a meal-to-go from a supermarket to scoff in your motel room. But you can definitely pay eye-watering prices at high end places like the French Laundry.

Beer and most spirits are a good deal cheaper in the US because they're taxed less - as is gasoline. (I must say that I did miss being able to buy good "artisan" beers at about US$7 a sixpack after I got home). I haven't, however, noticed much difference in wine prices, if you discount the $2 Trader Joe's house brand. A good Californian zinfandel or pinot noir doesn't come especially cheap.

To partly cover LizzyF's ground, one reason why US prices should be lower is that we don't have America's vast pool of minimum-wage immigrant workers, or even the equivalent of the miserly US minimum wage - and a good thing too, I would say.

The other reason is the economies of scale possible in a market of 300 million as opposed to 21 million people. This second factor is so self-evident that it really shouldn't come as a surprise to visitors.

anita63

Thank you Lizzy for making feel better about the $ that i am forking over to visit Australia next month (well, actually 28 days but who's counting,lol).

I was originally floored by the expense of things there. Not so much about the cost but more of the fear of feeling that it wasn't a good value. I read your post with interest and feel a bit more confident that all those silly 'must do' things I'm paying for are going to probably be of higher caliber than what I am used to over here in North America.

With that said, I have to sort of agree that Fodor's site doesn't talk specifically about money unless it's a specific question because, in my opinion, I feel that this site is geered for a more seasoned traveller whether in travel experience or age. I am guessing that there are sites for more budget oriented travel? The important thing is that you can gleam lots of information from Fodor's and get a 'game plan' and then shop around for pricing on other sites.

With that said, all I can say is Thank God for our strong Canadian dollar right now and doubly thank God for all the freakin' points my husband has from aeroplan and Marriott! I'll be the first to say how much i SAVED with all the points I am using next month...TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS!!

Guareanteed, I was wondering if you have come across any travel talk sites for the budget minded...I would be interested in looking at those too.

Melnq8

anita63 - guaranteed seems to have left the building.

Lonely Planet has a forum geared towards budget travelers and backpackers. It's a bit sophomoric for my tastes, but it's certainly worth a look.

Trip Advisor also has travel forums that cater to a wide variety of travel styles.

Enjoy your trip to Australia!