We are planning a 16 days trip to Northern India in November. Is this a good month to visit this region? We are looking at the "Jewels of India" tour offered by Vantage Travel. This tour includes Mumbai, Jodhpur, Ranthambhore, Jajpur,Agra, DelhiKhajuraho and Varanasi. Anyone familiar with this company? Any other suggestions shall be greatly appreciated.
J&B

Since the trip is sold out there's very little info on the Vantage web site. However, these are all places you could visit easily on your own - do a search here for relevant trip reports.

There's no way I'd want to do a motor coach tour in India - the roads are fascinating but crazy - shared in haphazard fashion by pedestrians, cows, bullock carts, bikes, motorbikes, cars, trucks etc. etc., all communicating by honking their horns. I prefer trains, but a combination of trains and a car and driver (not expensive if booked through an Indian agency) is probably the best method. Plus, I see no point in flying into Mumbai to start this tour. It also looks like it includes too much for the time available.

way to much to do in 16 days...

i would suggest you contact a delhi tour company like castle and king and have them arrange the whole thing for you....they did for me and it was perfect....they have standard trips or you can craft one yourself.....

8 places in 16 days is too many, IMO. It will all be a blur. You may actually only have like 14 days if they are counting your arrival and departure days (when you really won’t get to do much), which makes it even worse. In 16 days I would “do” 5 places at most, maybe a half-day trip to a near-by 6th. But the places on the itin above are quite far in distance from one another, so I think you really will be quite rushed with it. They are all really interesting and worthwhile (well, Khajuraho would be last for me on that list and I would substitute others, but it has its charms). I would also agree that including Mumbai on a north India tour is not necessary, and Mumbai is a hard town for a tourist, IMO, there is not a lot to see compared to other places.

However, for that entire itin, I would do it over 21 days or even more, not including arrival and departure days for flights in and out of India. So I agree that you should try to organize this yourself if you want to see all those places OR choose a tour that is going to fewer places. Arrival/departure from Delhi makes much more sense for a north Indian itin.

November is generally good weather-wise, the hot weather is gone (other than Mumbai where it will still be quite hot, cool weather does not come until late Dec and Jan). Virtually no rain as the monsoon months are well behind you. I would say go more toward the latter half of the month just to avoid any residual hot weather. See weatherbase.com for info on temps.

I'm possibly looking into my own India trip, and am interested in the responses. With the exception of Mumbai, the pace and routing of the OP's itinerary doesn't look that much different than any of the others I've seen.

I've been researching trip reports, blogs, individual "driver" tours and escorted tours of Rajasthan (incl Delhi, Agra and maybe Varanasi) and from most everything I've read, travelers seem to stay in each place for two or three nights max. From my internet and guidebook impressions, the cities of Rajasthan and northern India don't seem like places where you park yourself for a week.

Delhi is a must as that's the point of entry and exit, but it seems that it's recommended to get-in-and-get-out. No one recommends Agra for more than 2 nights. Varanasi for a couple of nights. But then you've already visited three cities and you still need to see Rajasthan!

Comments? Thanks

I went back and looked at my itinerary for India for 2001. I took a night train into Varanasi (from Kolkata), spent two nights, and took another night train out, so two full days (one for a day trip to Sarnath) and two part days. And I could easily have spent longer there.

I took a night train into Delhi, spent four nights and took a day train out, and felt I spent too long. Aside from the Qutr Minab, Humayan's Tomb, the Lotus Temple and the Raj Ghat I could have skipped Delhi - but in general I prefer smaller towns and I'm not a shopper.

I actually agree that a couple of nights could be enough for Jodhpur and Jaipur, although I would give longer to Jaisalmer, especially if you want to take a camel trip out to the desert. I'd also recommend spending some time in the Shekhawati area near Jaipur.

I hated Agra, but you should plan to see the Taj at both sunset and sunrise, and to visit Fatehpur Sikri and Bahretpur while you're there or on the way. And if you can fit Orchha into that part of your itinerary it will give you a look at a more rural part of India.

I found the Vantage itinerary, and the 16 days (15 nights) of the tour actually do not include Varanasi and Khajuraho - they're a four night extension. There's too much time in Mumbai and too little anywhere else.

Thank you all for your very valuable inputs and suggestions. Your advices are well taken and we shall incorporate most or all into our final schedule. Please keep them coming... More on trains would be very helpful.
J&B

The best train info site I know is site61.com - look for the India section. For timetables see www.indianrail.gov.in, which seems to have been upgraded since the last time I looked. You need the "trains between important stations" section and the route map in the "trains at a glance" section. For rail passes see www.dandpani.dircon.co.uk (you don't have to live in the UK to use them). For my ten weeks by train see www.wilhelmswords.com/asia2001. I also used Royston Ellis' "By Rail in India".

I would recommend AC2 class for meeting locals, but AC1 is more private.

Have you checked out the itinerary offered by Overseas Adventure Travel, a division of Grand Circle? We went with them, found the pace quite acceptable, and the itinerary quite enough.

I think one could easily “park” oneself in a city or small town in north India for a week, it’s just that most posters on this board are only in India for 2-3 weeks, and it is a very large country with lots to see and so they keep moving. If you wanted to take it slower, I think you would gain a very different impression of India, and if you can do it, you might really enjoy it. It would depend on your interests and how much (or how little) it can take to keep you amused and interested. If you have read some of the Thorn Tree Posts on Lonelyplanet.com, you may encounter people who have spent a longer time in the various towns and gained a different impression. For example, as I have said many times, most people hate Agra because they spend 1 night there and all they see is the area around the Taj which is full of touts, or they go to a marble shop and get the long spiel on the marble. If you have, or take, the time to go into the old town areas away from the Taj (esp around the main mosque) you will get a completely different feeling for the place. It’s full of narrow streets with no cars and just people going about their business who leave you in peace to observe. Little temples, street markets and just the daily life of India which is something I could happily watch all day.

It’s all a matter of how much time you have and how much you feel comfortable doing on your own. An organized tour is <i>not</i> going to take you wandering into the alleyways of the old town of Agra, that is something you have to do on your own. (They probably will, however, take you to a marble “factory” which will be one guy working on marble and three guys trying to sell you a marble table top.) I always ask my driver what’s going on locally, and last time I was in Agra, my driver there took me to a Durga festival which was only celebrated by a small sect there (so it does not make any guidebooks or any tour routes), which turned out to be a great experience, but again, you have to be proactive in these things and ask around and be prepared to change plans if something comes up. And you may make mistakes, get lost, etc. But you will also have some great experiences.

I am a big fan of Delhi and travel there often. Again, it is a place where people on a 14-21 day trip generally cannot afford to spend a lot of time; and those on tours generally only see the highlights in a day or two. That is really a shame. Delhi certainly has the best museums in India (although the City Palace in Jaipur has a mind-boggling collection but it is quite poorly curated). The National Museum is excellent and the modern art museum is small but has some wonderful things (including about the only permanent collection of paintings by WOMEN artists I have seen anywhere). The Crafts Museum offers a good glimpse of the range of the crafts of India (and a good shop). There are dance and music offerings in many venues. The Rajpath area around the Parliament buildings and President’s house offers Lutyen’s vision of the splendours of the British Raja that is unmatched elsewhere in India (and unmatched elsewhere in the former colonial empire IMO). The Friday Mosque, Red Fort and Chandi Chowk area, while of course on the tourist path, are very interesting. Ghandi’s cremation ground I find very moving. Indira Ghandi’s house I could move right into, love the books everywhere, the whole ambience and the leafy neighbourhood; and the house she grew up in is quite the palace, those Nehrus were something, it’s now a monument to her father but you get a feel for the family as well. There is Hauz Khas Village for little shops and restaurants, and I just love the Karol Bagh area for people watching (and for Ahujason shawlwallah). There are some great restaurants as well. Go to, or drive through, the suburbs of Noida and Gurgaon on your way down to Agra to see the new India (shopping malls, high rise apartments and office parks). It’s really a very interesting nix of old and new.

Cicerone,

I also love Delhi, though I don't know it the way you do. We visited some friend there and thought we would stay a couple of days and we ended up staying for a week!

Another vote for Delhi. We only had two and a half days there, and it was much too short. Shopping was great, and we loved the variety and contrasts between the old and new. On Cicerone's recommendation we made sure to spend some time visiting Indira Gandhi's house &amp; museum, Nehru house &amp; museum, and Birla House where Mahatma Gandhi spent his last months. If you are interested in the history of India's independence these are all very interesting places to visit. Before visiting these sights, though, I highly recommend reading &quot;Freedom at Midnight&quot; by Collins &amp; LaPierre who wrote &quot;Is Paris Burning?&quot;

I agree with Nutella, with the exception of Mumbai (which I loved, by the way) the itinerary is very doable, and forms part of the standard 2 week tour of India, with Jodhpur thrown in, which isn't usually on the standard tour circuit, however I think you can do that tour easily. I had 5 weeks, but I went 3 times as many places as that, and liked it, I think you will too. You can always come back for a second trip if you want to spend more time in certain cities.

Hi Cicerone,

You are so right in your analysis... what you are saying is true; that is the best way to visit any place. Better to go slowly and be able to observe,and absorb everythig.
Thank you for helping me with my first trip to India. I had been reading for more than a year about this amazing country,so I know a lot about its history and a bit about their complex religion. I'm begining to have a clearer idea of the cities and places I want to visit...I will want to see Delhi, following your steps, going to the places where the tours will not take you and you sure offer very intersting choises. (We change our mind about the organize tour)
I had been wanting to travel to this country now for sooo many years that I don't want this to interfere with my planning, &quot;the least the better&quot;.
Here is my question. Are you familiar with Amritsar? I would love to visit the Golden temple. Yeah, it is a bit out of the way but... anything is posible when we count with two and a half weeks,plus beeing very selective with my choices- I will post them later.
I will check Lonely Planet. Thanks again.

We only had two weeks and not enough time to see everything we wanted to see, so at the end of our trip my husband visited Amritsar to see the Golden temple while I went to Varanasi. We both loved each place, and I only wish we had enough time to include both, but it just wasn't possible. The golden temple complex looks beautiful, and my husband couldn't get over the huge dining hall that provides free meals to approximately 1000 people each day. There are also dormitories that provide free or inexpensive lodging to pilgrims. My husband also saw the flag ceremony and changing of the guard on the border between Indian and Pakistan, which was very colorful and interesting. But I experienced Varanasi, and as everyone who posts on this board has said that is a special and unique place that is not to be missed.

The problem, as Cicerone says, is there are just too many fascinating places to visit in India, and not enough time. We found the only way to make it possible to see as much as we did was to fly between locations as the time it takes to drive or take the train really cuts into your trip. We had about the same amount of time as you have and we went to Udaipur, Jodhpur, Jaipur, Agra and Delhi, and then from Delhi my husband flew to Amritsar and I flew to Varanasi and then we met back in Delhi for the flight home. I felt that we didn't have enought time in either Udaipur or Delhi, but I wouldn't

We also used Castle &amp; King, which Bob (RHKKMK) recommended to plan our trip with guides and drivers in each place, and we were very satisfied. I will post later with their contact information.

I went to both Varanasi and Amritsar. If I could only go to one I'd have to pick Varanasi, but I really enjoyed the Golden Temple (including the foot bath on the way in!). I also visited a somewhat neglected memorial to the 1919 massacre. I took the night train on to Delhi from Amritsar.

I'm having a great time reading all the messages... They are such a big help!!
Time,time, time is what most of everyone seems to be saying and most of you want to go back. I'm begining to understand this contradiction of why people want to go back to India in spite of being chaotic, dirty,with food that can be dangerous,water that is not drinkable,all the horrendous smells...plus,plus.
India sounds like a vibrant country,where everything is magnified. Mystic India... Yeah!I will be one of those who will say,&quot;I will be back&quot;

Thanks CFW, and thursdysd, now I'm conviced that Amritsar will be on my itinerary.
Please, send me the information of Castle &amp;King. Thanks againg.

I have only been to Amritsar once, but I thought it was quite interesting. The Sikh temple of course is the main draw, but it also has nice old town parts too. I think you would find it off the tourist path very much. You can fly there quite easily these days from many parts of India, so do look into that option first if you only have a limited time. I know that Jet Airways has flights, and Kingfisher may too. Otherwise, you can take a train (the night train option may work well for you). Please also note that there is even international air service from London to Amritsar on Jet Airways so you could actually use Amritsar as a point of entry or exit from India which may save you some backtracking and allow you to include Amritsar more easily.

For hotels, I stayed at the I have only stayed at the MK Hotel (http://www.mkhotel.com/), which is a bit out of town. It is perfectly fine international-style chain hotel, it may not be what you are looking for (I was there on business and hung around a few days after). From my trusty Lonely Planet and Allistar Sawday guidebooks (see at http://sawdays.co.uk/ for all listings for India ), I have pulled the following reccos, they look interesting:
Ranjit’s Svaasa http://www.svaasa.com/ and Mrs Bhandiri’s Guesthouse,
http://bhandari_guesthouse.tripod.com/mainpic.htm

I think 2 nights in Amritsar is plenty, but you could stay longer of course, up to you. You may even be able to get away with one night, but I generally and not an advocate of staying only 1 night anywhere, as I think you can only really start to get a feel for a place after a bit longer time.

Nalijo,

Here is the contact info for Castle &amp; King:

E-Mail: [email protected]

Mr. Arvind Kumar (Business Head)
Tel+ 91) 011 - 45572470 / 64501150
Mobile No. 91- 9868712102 (24 Hrs.)

I have no idea how that face got in there!