DIANAS

Hello to all! Came back a couple of days a go from Japan. First want to give thanks to all of you for all the suggestions everything went perfect. I am going to tell you all about the threee hotels that we stayed at and a couple of other suggestions. Hope it helps all future travellers.

DIANAS

In Tokyo we stayed at the Reinassance Tobu Ginsa TOKYO. We used Marriott points. Somebody had mentioned about extra charges at this hotel when using miles, so I decide to send a n email to Marriott asking that, they answered me back saying that there were not any additional charges. Surprise!!!! We arrived at the hotel and at check in we are told about a charge of 25000Y / day that we had to pay. We were very tired and said nothing. Later that day we mentioned our correspondence with Marriott and were asked to show that email. Found it, print it and gave it to them. After many comings and goings we were told that we did not have to pay anything. (They even showed us a paper in which Marriott stayed that the any Marriott Rewards members staying in a hotel outside the US were to pay any additional taxes imposed by foreign governments).

Great location only two blocks from Ginsa where all the restaurants and great stores are. It has a subway station in front. Is a ten minute to the Tsukiji Fish Market. The hotel is nothing special. I guess all the Renaissance are like that. Clean rooms & nice staff. However, it has something very good….. Right before the elevators you will find all the suggested tourist walks and visits the nice thing is that it is made by the hotel so it is very simple and with all the instructions about how to get to places from the hotel normally with a little map,. They have maybe 10 sheets of information. Suggested walks, suggestions for that specific weekend, museums and so on! Very, very helpful.


Our first night in Kyoto was at Yoshima Ryokan. It is very difficult to say a definite word on this. GREAT location in the middle of Gion, nice place with a beautiful garden. We paid 20.000 Y per person…. Maybe we were expecting too much but we think that for that price we could have stayed in a western hotel and had gone to an excellent restaurant. By anybody’s standards 40,000 for two is very expensive even if that includes dinner. Diner… …….. was without any doubt the poorest we had in our entire trip a total disappointed. I don’t know if Keiseki dinner is that – we didn’t want to try it again to find out). I know we could have pay more ( I am glad we didn’t – they we not available). The price of that same night at the Granvia, Hyatt or Westion were all less that 18,000. That means if we had stayed at any of these hotels we could have had a 22,000 dinner and then again that is a GREAT DINNER - to say the least- anywhere. So as many of you have said it all depends on you. I just don’t think that it was worth it to pay that much for that experience. I think in this case you pay for the location!! I will more than happy to answer more specific question regarding the Yoshima. http://www.yoshi-ima.co.jp/en/policy/index.html

The rest of the nights in Kyoto we stayed at the Hyatt Regency Kyoto. AS many of you know they opened only three months ago. BEAUTIFUL hotel!!! Rooms were not very big but very nice. The best thing was the Bath room, the best I have ever seen!!!! It has a independent toilette, a bath (normal size, maybe smaller than desired) but the shower is so big that you don’t want to get out!!!!!!!!!! Amazing. Very goods bed. You can get a computer from the lobby and get online for I think -15,000 Y maximum for 24 hrs- It has a bus stop right in front and next to our favorite temple Sanjusangen-do (the one with the 1001 Buddhas). We tried the room service one and food was very good and not expensive. They don’t have as many options as the Westyn or the Granvia. The only have an Italian place with a bakery (they charge 700 Y for an 8 oz orange juice not fresh out of Tropicana big box) but pastries were not expensive. They have another restaurant at the lobby level and another one downstairs. They also have a sushi bar next to the bar. The spa is nothing special but expensive. The use of the gym is free but to use the wet area is something like 16,000 Y per day (that is only a sauna and steam room). Staff seem very helpful, concierge services good but nothing splendid.

We were always thinking if we had made the right choice regarding hotels in Kyoto. We had a drink at the Westin and found it too big and too old. The Granvia seems to be very nice, convenient to all the places and it does not look like a hotel inside a train station. I think if I come back to Kyoto I will stay at the Granvia. It also has the post office (24hr - ATM) next to it…..and in Japan that is always a plus.

I will come back later with one great place we discover in Osaka, SPA WORLD and a couple of restaurants.

KimJapan

It's too bad about the Yoshi-ima. I don't think you were expecting too much...the place bills itself as a great place with a great meal and cultural experience.

I wondered if it would be a good ryokan experience or not as it seems to be geared to non-Japanese and I've now learned it is included as a $480.00 (for one person for one night) option on a tour. Now we know for sure it's not worth $480 per person.

A good kaiseki dinner is indeed very good. The dishes are seasonal and local, so highly variable. A poor rendition of one could be very bad indeed...poorly prepared boiled dishes are tasteless for example. The portions are always small, and one fine point of kaiseki is that you should finish with a feeling of wanting a bit more...this is a kind of way to entice you to come back again.

The Renaissance wanted to charge you ¥25,000 yen per night??? That's more than the room cost I think. Maybe you meant ¥2,500? I hope. Good you didn't pay it too. We use Hilton points a lot to stay in Hiltons in Japan and have never had to pay anything like that.

Spa World is popular. We have a similar place in Kanazawa called Renais. My daughter loves it.

emd

Hi DIANAS! I knew it was you posting your trip report due to the caps!

I think you might like the Okura hotel in Kyoto. It is run by Japanese and is very western in style. It has a BIG shopping and dining area under the htoel connected to the subway stop (called Zest) that gives you many dining options right there (both inexpensive and nicer, Japanese food, Chinese, Western style coffee shops and cafes, etc. Some of the nicer dining is right in the hotel basement level (along w/many high class women's boutiques). The location is excellent, right next to City Hall for people watching from the window, right on subway line (in basement), bus stops right outside and at night you can walk to ceotnral Kyoto (starts one straight out of front of hotel). I booked early (8 months ahead) and got 25200 yen rate for two, big nice rm, two full size beds. Rates close to time of the stay were 47500 for same rm. though, so book early.

That said, thank you for trying out the new Hyatt and giving the report on it. I am torn now as to whether I would try it or not, or if I would go back to Okura. I have stayed at Westin. I would not want to stay at the train station at Granvia personally, that is just me.

Regarding the ryokan, well, you tried it. I know myself well enough to know I wouldn't want to spend the money for it and probably wouldn't enjoy the food as much as it costs. And I just don't like sleeping on the floor, no matter what is under me. I enjoyed our one night at a ryokan in Hakone (inexpensive for a ryokan, not a high level of service and we opted out of dinner) and would do that again, but not a high level one. So yes, everyone is different, and you have to know yourself to know if it goign to be as splendid an experience for you as others might experience. And now you've tried it out and know.

Awaiting the rest of your report...

angethereader

I'm happy you didn't have to pay the extra charges at the Marriott. We did, and when we checked in it was a little shock - but since I considered the room to be free (they were points that were a gift from my sister) I didn't really mind. If they had been my hard earned points I'm sure I would have felt differently.
I would have been very disappointed if our guest house experience had been anything like yours. We did not stay at a ryokan as the price was out of the question.
I don't think you were paying just for location and the price seems to high for what you experienced. That's a little sad to me. You want to have lots of experiences while on vacation and you paid a premium for something that you did not get.

I can't wait for your next post.

DIANAS

Could not agree more with all you regarding the Ryokan experience. Emd, you are right, the hotel at the train station is not the ideal…… The Okura sounds just about perfect!! Yes…the caps…that is so me. Wonder if there is a graphologist in the forum to analyze these….

I promised Osaka, so here we go.
We wanted to have an ONSEN experience. Hakon was too complicated since it was a weekend and trains back to Tokyo were already full. We had read about Spa World in Osaka and decided to go. We took the train to Nara in the morning, visited a couple of temples and went on to Osaka. In Osaka we visited the observatory tower and decide to go straight to Spa World. Took a taxi, paid a fortune and the subway station was just in front of it! It was further that expected but totally worth it.

It was a real experience. If you are one of those people that loves massages, steam rooms, whirlpools and so on….you have to try this place it will certainly be one of the most amazing experiences you can have. The water comes from underground springs. The place is divides into two main areas one floor is for man and one for women; one floor represents all the European bathing alternatives and the other one the Asian ones. It is basically the same for both, they actually switch users every month or so men and women can try both. They have all type of massages and beauty treatments for very reasonable prices. I will say less than half price of the hotel spa rates. On the top floor they have a family area in which they have a pool and all sort of water slides and games for the family in which swimsuits are required (not for the same sex floors). Kids are allowed in all floors. They say they can hold up to 5,000 people at the same time... so just picture the size of the place. It is a very nice clean place and NOT tacky at all. We went on a Saturday expecting it to be somehow crowded (the reason why I was not very happy about going but my husband insisted, I was so glad he did). It was not crowed at all. I will say there were never more than 2 people in one place/pool at the same time. I did a mud bath and a salt bath included. Also did a shiatsu massage and one made with the feet; both great. They also have a few restaurants and a great juice bar. The entrances was 2,700 Y for up to 3 hours but the next rate was 3,000 fro more than 3. Not a big difference. It is open 24 hrs. They also have a hotel…looks very nice in the brochure, did not have time to visit it.(the last train back to Kyoto was at 9.40 PM) We took the subway (JR system) back to the station and took the last Shinkansen to Kyoto. The ride back to Kyoto was 15 minutes….yes it took us longer to get from the Spa to the station (maybe 20 with a transfer) It was really a great experience!!! I have their web page somewhere; will try to find it later.

emd

I think SpaWorld sounds fun, a bit like Yunessun in Hakone that we went to. I like having a place to have fun, relax, bathe with the bathing suit on, esp. since I have my teens w/me when I go. If I am back in Osaka or Kyoto I will try out SpaWorld- thanks for posting.

Did they have any other theme bathing (like Yunessun had red wine bath, skae bath, green tea bath, coffee bath, and also dead sea salt- that one was a trip)?

Prices are about the same at both places.

mrwunrfl

DIANAS, tell us more about Yoshiima. What time of day did you arrive? What happened after you arrived? What was your room like? Do you recall how it was laid out and the furnishings? How did the staff at the place treat you? Was your bedding comfortable, did you sleep well?

About half of the cost of your stay was the meal. What exactly was wrong with it?

Thanks for the report. We can all use your info to help others.

A couple of nits: 25,000Y does sound like way to much for a hotel charge; it is a room rate. And it was probably 1500/day for the computer and 1600/day for the health center?

The single use rate for Yoshiima is 25,000 to 35,000. So it is not worth $480 for single use, because Yoshiima doesn't actually charge that amount. Based on this report, it doesn't sound like Yoshiima is worth the 20,000 pp double and it is hard to tell whether it is worth it based on nickn's more positive report on the other thread.

Great to hear you had fun at Spa World.

emd

ONe thing- I don't think of places like Yunessun or Spa World as onsen. They do use thermal natural waters but they are more like onsen combined w/a park sort of atmosphere. I think of onsen as being much more traditional, w/a natural type bathing environment. I think both types of places are cool and fun in different ways. I plan to do more of the traditional onsen when I go back next time, not staying in the hotels that are affiliated w/many of them, but just going to them for day use.

mrwunrfl

The water came from "underground springs" at spa world. If the springs were naturally hot, then spa world used onsen water. They baths were not typical onsen baths.

Why would you not stay at a hotel with an onsen?

emd

I think you are saying what I am saying, that they are not traditional onsen baths.

I meant to say I don't particularly want to stay at a ryokan w/an onsen, not a hotel. My bad.

mrwunrfl

You want to stay in a hotel, but go to a bath at a traditional onsen at a ryokan. Is that it? And you are not interested in staying at an onsen hotel because you really want the traditional kind at a traditional onsen?

emd

Oh goodness, this is getting a bit complicated. I don't understand the second part of your question. Let me try to simplify. I will likely stay at a hotel w/a western bed and go visit the onsen baths at a more traditional onsen ryokan, as you can at places like Kurama (and as I am finding out in my research for my next trip that you can do at many other onsen). But I have no desire to stay at and sleep at a ryokan affiliated w/a traditional onsen (which provides japanese style sleeping) because, as I think you know, I really don't like sleeping close to the floor and I do not sleep well in that situation.

mrwunrfl

yes, i left my brain at work. there are many nice baths at onsen hotels. places with western beds

KimJapan

emd...but didn't you know that many of the onsen hotels/ryokan DO have a limited number of rooms with beds? If it's the beds that are keeping you out of the onsen hotel and ryokan, fret no more. We'll find you a lovely place...with BEDS!

emd

Yes, I do know that, but not the ones I am looking at visiting on my next trip, unfortunately- no western beds in those particular ones but I can visit the onsen baths without staying overnight.

KimJapan

Yes, a lot of places have time during the day when they allow outside visitors to use their bath facilities. This time is usually between check out and check in time.

Where do you want to go?

emd

I appreciate it, but let's drop the specifics for now. I appreciate the offer of help but quite honestly I am not even sure if I can go back in the next year due to big issues w/my spouse and family and other things. So I am looking into it quietly and if it gets more concrete, I'll post and ask for more specific help (you can count on that!) I don't mean to be evasive, was just trying to point out the difference in character between a traditional onsen and a place like SpaWorld, and I sort of got myself entangled in something I am not ready to share the dream specifics on yet.

Hopefully DIANAS (w/her caps) will come back and give us some more info on her ryokan stay. I think her experience has sparked good and fruitful discussion.

KimJapan

Yes, I hope she gives more details too.

You are quite right about the major differences between places like Spa World and a luxury onsen. Both are nice, but very different.

alibi13

We stayed at the Granvia, and it was great.

Sorry to hear about your ryokan/kaiseki experience.

We had a real letdown/bummer/disappointment/overpriced Kaiseki experience in Gion. (I wonder if that is common for that neighborhood; it seems a little touristy, and also that it's best days have passed.)

We had an amazing kaiseki experience at a restaurant called Wakudan (spelling?) in a restaurant connected to the train station. It was unbelievable, and only $50 each. One of the best meals we ever had.

So give kaiseki another chance, just make sure you go to a good place; the conceirge at the granvia is extremely helpful.