Tokyo + Kyoto (10 days / 9 nights)
Feb 25th, 2004, 04:03 PM
#21
Well the shinkansen will haul you the 513.6 km from Tokyo to Kyoto in 140 minutes at a cost of about 13700 JPY. That's one way, info from hyperdia.com
The 7-day JR pass costs 28,300 JPY
Flying, even with a Visit Japan fare, would not be much cheaper, if at all, and would probably take longer. Riding the bus is cheaper. Maybe a limited express train.
Another thing that you might do is stay at an airport hotel on your arrival day and catch a flight from Narita to either KIX or ITM (the Osaka airports) the next day. See fly-ana.com or japanair.com for their specials for foreign tourists.
Feb 25th, 2004, 05:14 PM
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems like the 7 day JR pass excludes the Nozomi train which, of course, has the fastest travel time. That's very unfortunate. I'd imagine buying (2) 7-day JR passes at about 60K Yen + another 56K Yen for round trip tickets to Kyoto via Nozomi is excessive. I think I'll have to shell out the 116K Yen since we also plan on visiting Kamakura and Nara via the JR lines. Thanks for the input.
Feb 25th, 2004, 05:50 PM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You certainly don't need 2 weeks worth. Arrive in Tokyo and stay put for the first 3 days...sightsee in Tokyo. Buying tickets for the subway and Yamanote lines in Tokyo won't cost you over a 1000 yen a day per person unless you really go all over. And in that case, buy a pass. http://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/util/english/ and http://www.seejapan.co.uk/transport/rail/regional.html have good information and links about local transport.
Activate your 7 day pass on day 3, use it on the Hikari shinkansen to go to Kyoto. Stay in Kyoto for a few days. Go to Nara for a day from Kyoto. I also recommend a night in temple at Mt. Koya. Lovely. Go to Kamakura and back to Tokyo. All using the pass..lots of savings in terms of train fares.
Narita to Shinjuku/Tokyo station can be done pretty reasonably. Limousine buses are available for about 3000 each way per person to various hotels. Narita Express train is 3500 yen to the station, then maybe taxi or subway to your hotel. If you plan it right, you can use your JR pass to get back to the airport by train.
Activate your 7 day pass on day 3, use it on the Hikari shinkansen to go to Kyoto. Stay in Kyoto for a few days. Go to Nara for a day from Kyoto. I also recommend a night in temple at Mt. Koya. Lovely. Go to Kamakura and back to Tokyo. All using the pass..lots of savings in terms of train fares.
Narita to Shinjuku/Tokyo station can be done pretty reasonably. Limousine buses are available for about 3000 each way per person to various hotels. Narita Express train is 3500 yen to the station, then maybe taxi or subway to your hotel. If you plan it right, you can use your JR pass to get back to the airport by train.
Feb 25th, 2004, 06:59 PM
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that link.... Your point about making transportation arrangements while in Japan is quite familiar. I think most of my other trips have always turned out that way. We always find a local that's willing to help out and alert us to the best scenerios to get us from A to B.
-Mrwunrlf
By the way the only discerning info published about these trains on the links provided was that the Nozomi has zero stops whereas the other ones incrementally have more to several stops. The Hyperdia only mentions travel times for the Nozomi. So I wasn't aware that there next train down was only 23 minutes slower.
-Mrwunrlf
By the way the only discerning info published about these trains on the links provided was that the Nozomi has zero stops whereas the other ones incrementally have more to several stops. The Hyperdia only mentions travel times for the Nozomi. So I wasn't aware that there next train down was only 23 minutes slower.
Feb 26th, 2004, 07:44 AM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We also are planning our trip to Japan. We will stay in Tokyo for 4 days and then join a tour group for 10 days in Tokyo and Kyoto. We have another 10 days in Japan. We think we would like to spend it in the Alps area (takayama, MMatsumoto, etc.) But maybe this is not a good idea. It will be the first week in November. Will it be too cold in the Alps area? How do I make reservations in hotels, inns, kyokan (one night)? I would kike to use a Japanese travel agent, but cannot find one. The ones I spoke with in US only want to book standard group tours. Please, if you know travel agent in Japan who speaks English and has email, please share!! Thanks.
Feb 26th, 2004, 10:58 AM
#27
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We were in Takayama this past October 18-19 and it wasn't too cold at all. I don't know how much worse it would be a few weeks later, but it shouldn't be too bad. As for reservations, we made the majority of our reservations by calling the hotels directly. There was usually someone there that spoke English well enough to take a reservations. We made reservations for several ryokan via www.japaneseguesthouses.com, which is a very good reservation service.
Feb 26th, 2004, 02:02 PM
#28
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you, jaydreb5. I feel much better now that I have read your reply. Please share more info our your time in Japan. How many days did you spend in the Alps? Other area/s you would recommend? We are going there from Kyoto, ending in Tokyo. Still cannot plan route through the Alps area. Maybe there is not a straight line route that works. I will review your other postings.
Feb 26th, 2004, 02:15 PM
#29
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only time we spent in the Alps was 2 days in Takayama which was very nice, so I can't really help with other destinations in the Alps. Otherwise, we spent our time in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Miyajima, with trips to Kamakura, Nara, Hakone, Hiroshima.
I did a rather detailed trip report from my trip in October 2003, which you should be able to find here with a quick search. I'm happy to answer any more questions.
I did a rather detailed trip report from my trip in October 2003, which you should be able to find here with a quick search. I'm happy to answer any more questions.
Feb 26th, 2004, 05:37 PM
#30
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shirakawa-go is a lovely mountain town. It's a world heritage village, many houses with thatched roofs. It's very small...much smaller than Takayama. It is well worth staying the night in a minshuku in Shirakawa-go. You can book when you arrive in the town or beforehand through the town's tourist information center. The price is pretty much the same everywhere - about 8000 yen per person, with breakfast and dinner included. To make the most of this experience, choose a minshuku with an irori (open hearth cooking area) and grass roof (gassho zukuri).
http://www.shirakawa-go.gr.jp/English/index-e.htm is a good place to start. Fodors guide lists some minshuku. There are many in the town.
http://www.shirakawa-go.gr.jp/English/index-e.htm is a good place to start. Fodors guide lists some minshuku. There are many in the town.
Feb 27th, 2004, 05:10 AM
#31
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for your responses. http://www.shirakawa-go.gr.jp/English/index-e.htm is an amazing site. I just spent an hour there and looked at barely a fraction. Yunoshimakan in Gero looked so beautiful it seemed worth going to Japan just for it. I also printed out Jaydreb's messages from his trip. Very helpful. We are planning to go to Shirakawa-go and Matsumoto, but cannot sequence these places. We can leave Kyoto Oct. 31 (or do another day trip from there) and leave Japan Nov. 9 at 11:00 am (we will probably overnight near Tokyo airport). I think we will send most of our luggage from Kyoto to our hotel at the airport (great service!). Suggestions welcomed on using these valuable days. We are 2 older couples (but not too old) who have done lots of travel, but we want to be more comfortable than when we traveled during college. This is much harder than planning a trip thru Italy or even Thailand.
Feb 27th, 2004, 03:43 PM
#32
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd start out in Takayama, for at least 2 days. Here's a good link for accommodation...explore in English and see pictures too. I recommend a minshuku or a ryokan rather than a hotel or pension for the experience of it. When my parents visited us 4 years ago, they liked Takayama a lot, we stayed in a ryokan, had a terrific dinner there took a bath. My mom loved the bath! Oh...here's the link. http://hida-yado.net/
Shirakawago isn't far from Takayama. You can take a bus to Shirakawago. Japanese buses are quite comfortable. Personally, I lovce Shirakawago so much I'd spend 2 nights there too. It's not that there is tons to see and do, but it really feels like old Japan and just walking around is a pleasure. If you make a reservation the day before at the folk museum, you can experience weaving and making soba...well worth it in my opinion. ]
Matsumoto is reachable by train. Kamikochi, nearby, comes highly recommended by my friends, is worth at least a day. Tsumago and Magome are 2 old post towns that we've been meaning to visit for years...still haven't made it, but they still sound great.
We live in Kanazawa...the little Kyoto. With 10 days, you could spend 2 in Takayama, 2 in Shirakawago, 3-4 in Matsumoto/Kamikochi/post towns, 2 in Kanazawa. Kanazawa is s2 1/2 hours by train to Kyoto.
Kanazawa is a lovely small city. It has a gorgeous famous garden, 2 samurai districts, 2 geisha districts. It's a very different place than Kyoto, Osaka, Tokyo, Hiroshima. Kanazawa was never bombed, so the traditional winding, narrow roads remain intact, makiing for interesting walks. More info? Just ask!
Shirakawago isn't far from Takayama. You can take a bus to Shirakawago. Japanese buses are quite comfortable. Personally, I lovce Shirakawago so much I'd spend 2 nights there too. It's not that there is tons to see and do, but it really feels like old Japan and just walking around is a pleasure. If you make a reservation the day before at the folk museum, you can experience weaving and making soba...well worth it in my opinion. ]
Matsumoto is reachable by train. Kamikochi, nearby, comes highly recommended by my friends, is worth at least a day. Tsumago and Magome are 2 old post towns that we've been meaning to visit for years...still haven't made it, but they still sound great.
We live in Kanazawa...the little Kyoto. With 10 days, you could spend 2 in Takayama, 2 in Shirakawago, 3-4 in Matsumoto/Kamikochi/post towns, 2 in Kanazawa. Kanazawa is s2 1/2 hours by train to Kyoto.
Kanazawa is a lovely small city. It has a gorgeous famous garden, 2 samurai districts, 2 geisha districts. It's a very different place than Kyoto, Osaka, Tokyo, Hiroshima. Kanazawa was never bombed, so the traditional winding, narrow roads remain intact, makiing for interesting walks. More info? Just ask!
Feb 27th, 2004, 05:14 PM
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is there a website that might help break down the demographic of each district within a city? For instance (KimJapan), you broke down the demographics of some districts (samurai,geisha,etc) within Kanazawa. I haven't found a guide book that has broken them down in details like that. I'd appreciate some guide in this.
Feb 27th, 2004, 06:55 PM
#34
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well...I don't know of any books that specifically break down cities like I talked about Kanazawa, but I do think the Fodors book is pretty accurate though limited. When we travel withing Japan we use the Fodors Japan book a lot. We have tried others for Japan and not liked them as well. Also, since we've lived here for almost 9 years, we can use Japanese language sources, of which there are many that are excellent. Actually, most tourists in Japan are in fact Japanese, so it just stands to reason.
Tokyo is well described in the Fodors book, as is Kyoto. Having visitied both cities, as well as Nagoya, Osaka and Hiroshima a number of times each, I have to say that all the big cities largely look and feel the same. Of course, each has unique attractions...but I wouldn't spend an entire holiday devoted to the cities but would venture out of them to see some of Japan without neon lights.
Tokyo is well described in the Fodors book, as is Kyoto. Having visitied both cities, as well as Nagoya, Osaka and Hiroshima a number of times each, I have to say that all the big cities largely look and feel the same. Of course, each has unique attractions...but I wouldn't spend an entire holiday devoted to the cities but would venture out of them to see some of Japan without neon lights.
Feb 27th, 2004, 10:04 PM
#36
Not to repeat myself, but 'Gateway to Japan' by June Kinoshita (Kodansha Press, available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc)is the book you need. It is truly an all in one resource, the bible to travelling & understanding many aspects of Japan.
It has sections on histury, culture, architecture, temples, religion, folk arts, art, drama, villas, types of towns, festivals, cuisine, ryokans and languages- just to name a few!
It also has lists of subjects and the best place to find them: the Best Castles, gardens, markets, shopping, best merchant towns, and many many more.
Even the smallest towns have all sorts of info on the sights, lodging, dining and a calendar of local events. Big cities are broken down into neighborhoods.
And no, I don't get royalties. I like to travel with no advance plans and this book allows you to do so and still find all the unknown treasures of Japan
A similar book printed by Kodansha is 'Japan Solo' which leans more to walking tours, and more specifics on how to get around, especially in out-of-the-way places.
.
It has sections on histury, culture, architecture, temples, religion, folk arts, art, drama, villas, types of towns, festivals, cuisine, ryokans and languages- just to name a few!
It also has lists of subjects and the best place to find them: the Best Castles, gardens, markets, shopping, best merchant towns, and many many more.
Even the smallest towns have all sorts of info on the sights, lodging, dining and a calendar of local events. Big cities are broken down into neighborhoods.
And no, I don't get royalties. I like to travel with no advance plans and this book allows you to do so and still find all the unknown treasures of Japan
A similar book printed by Kodansha is 'Japan Solo' which leans more to walking tours, and more specifics on how to get around, especially in out-of-the-way places.
.
Feb 28th, 2004, 04:35 AM
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm going to hit B&N today. I normally copy the pages that interest me in a guide book and slap them in a ring binder. I've done that for numerous places by simply printing the pages off of Frommer's online guides. I'll some books this time around. Thanks for the titles.
Feb 28th, 2004, 06:27 AM
#38
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KimJapan, You are wonderful!!! Many,many thanks! We will follow your advice. I will start contacting places to stay, but I gather that I am rather early to be making reservations. Is this true? We need to stay in places with beds most of the time, but we certainly will go Japanese style for one or two nights. If you get a chance, please look at the website for www.yunoshimakan.co.jp/. It looks too beautiful to me. It would be the place we would select. Since it has 70 rooms maybe it has Western rooms and we would have our ryokan experience in Takayama as you suggest. We will include Kanazawa on our adventure. Thanks again. Now I have a way to begin my planning. I have ordered "Gateway".
Feb 28th, 2004, 02:31 PM
#39
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elainee - I'm so happy to help!
Yunoshimakan does look nice...gorgeous rooms, garden and big bath. It looks quite luxurious! When you stay at this sort of place, you check in the afternoon (always after2:00), are shown to your room and served tea. You change into a yukata - a casual kimono/bathrobe (be sure to layer it left over right rather than right over left, which is reserved for dead bodies), take a bath for a couple of hours, then return to your room, relax, have a drink, dinner will be served at a pre-arranged time and will last at least 2 hours (and be lovely for sure). Then you take a bath again, and while you are out of your room your room will be changed from eating to sleeping, futon set up and so on. You will sleep, then wake early for yet another bath, then breakfast, buy souvenirs in the shop, then check out by 10:00. Between check in and check out, virtually no one leaves the grounds...the onsen experience is soaking in a hot tub, scrubbing your skin so it glows red and smooth, drinking good sake, eating gourmet food, soaking again....it's for relaxation and refreshing, not sightseeing, you know what I mean?
This place is in Gero onsen, a famous onsen town. It's big, with 74 Japanese rooms, beds not available. It's a very high class place, formal and expensive...from the price list on their website, the lowest grade room is 18,000 yen per person with 2 meals (but doesn't include drinks) and for the fancy rooms you you will pay much more. By train, you will be 47 minutes from Takayama, just so you know. The village of Gero Onsen does have a gassho village museum that you might like. If you were hoping to be located right in Takayama, then this isn't the place...if you are hoping for the onsen experience, this is a great choice.
Yunoshimakan does look nice...gorgeous rooms, garden and big bath. It looks quite luxurious! When you stay at this sort of place, you check in the afternoon (always after2:00), are shown to your room and served tea. You change into a yukata - a casual kimono/bathrobe (be sure to layer it left over right rather than right over left, which is reserved for dead bodies), take a bath for a couple of hours, then return to your room, relax, have a drink, dinner will be served at a pre-arranged time and will last at least 2 hours (and be lovely for sure). Then you take a bath again, and while you are out of your room your room will be changed from eating to sleeping, futon set up and so on. You will sleep, then wake early for yet another bath, then breakfast, buy souvenirs in the shop, then check out by 10:00. Between check in and check out, virtually no one leaves the grounds...the onsen experience is soaking in a hot tub, scrubbing your skin so it glows red and smooth, drinking good sake, eating gourmet food, soaking again....it's for relaxation and refreshing, not sightseeing, you know what I mean?
This place is in Gero onsen, a famous onsen town. It's big, with 74 Japanese rooms, beds not available. It's a very high class place, formal and expensive...from the price list on their website, the lowest grade room is 18,000 yen per person with 2 meals (but doesn't include drinks) and for the fancy rooms you you will pay much more. By train, you will be 47 minutes from Takayama, just so you know. The village of Gero Onsen does have a gassho village museum that you might like. If you were hoping to be located right in Takayama, then this isn't the place...if you are hoping for the onsen experience, this is a great choice.
Feb 29th, 2004, 05:21 AM
#40
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KimJapan, Thanks again! I thought we might do this ryokan first after leaving our tour in Kyoto. A good place to relax, unwind after being herded around for 10 days. Then on to Takayama or Kanazawa. I need to look more at the map to figure the sequence of these days. I am not only making arrangements for my husband and me but also for another couple. After I get my ideas clear I will show them to the other couple and then we can make final arrangements. Meanwhile I will email Yunoshimakan and see if we can stay there. I have read that some of the more formal places do not like taking foreigners (too much trouble). Do you think we will be unhappy if we take one of the less expensive rooms? I am excited about our trip!!
