JohnWM

Thank you all so very much for your generous sharing of comments and experiences over the past several months. I've just returned from a one-month vacation to SE Asia, and I benefitted enormously from the responses you all provided to my questions on various and sundry matters.

I can now share with you some brief observations about the cities I visited:

Hong Kong: Fabulous urban architecture! Interesting browsing but no bargains at all on Nathan Road; Macy's has better buys. A great new Museum of Art on the waterfront in Kowloon. A wonderful day trip to Macau; on another day, a wonderful day trip to Lantau Island. Hotel nights I spent in Hong Kong: 5; really worth: 4.

Taipei: great old-fashioned Chinese culture. Many old style Taoist and Buddist temples to view. A delightful day trip to Chiaofun (Jiufen). Interesting views of Taipei 101. A dreadful night out at a Mongolian barbeque restaurant that had dirty tableclothes and unhygienically displayed buffet food. Hotel nights I spent in Taipei: 4; really worth: 3.

Kuala Lumpur: a charmingly modern city. An interesting Orchid Garden and Bird Park; a bustling Chinatown along Petaling Street with mostly unsized garments for sale (no bargains here either). A great day trip down to Malacca (Melaka). Total hotel nights I spent in Kuala Lumpur: 4; really worth: 6.

Singapore: a startlingly modern city that seemed almost Americanized. Interesting buildings in the Chinatown area and the Little India area. Good eating but mediocre shopping along Orchard Road. An ice cream sandwich from a street vendor that consisted of a wedge of coffee ice cream (tasty) with a slice of white bread wrapped around it (dopey). Hotel nights I spent in Singapore: 3; really worth: 4.

Bangkok: a disappointingly dumpy city. Ramshackle, dilapidated, blighted are words that describe most of what I saw. A marvelous Royal Palace, though, and a terrific temple complex. A ride on the canals would have been great had they not made a point of unkindly passing through depressed areas where the least fortunate live; do they think their poverty is somehow photogenic? Many shops have no air conditioning; some have faint, feeble air conditioning. Hotel nights I spent in Bangkok: 4; really worth, 2.

Siem Reap in Cambodia (for Angkor Wat): an economically depressed area that is still 'the heart of darkness'. Dusty, non-air conditioned, loaded with begging children and the mothers who put them up to it; toddlers with not even as little as a diaper on, etc. The temple ruins of Angkor Wat, though, are worth the trip and the squalor! Magnificent Hindu temples that date from 900-1000; well preserved areas with much walking and climbing required. Spectacular vistas; impressive sculpture of the various gods and goddesses. Very good national ethnic dancing in several restaurants around town in the evening. Caution is necessary when eating at buffets due to the lack of refrigeration and air conditioning. Hotel nights I spent in Siem Reap: 3; really worth: 2 or 3.

Koh Samui: a nice beach at Chaweng with clean sand and water. Only a few sanitary looking restaurants on the main street. On the beach at my hotel there were nautical ballons in the water, considerately marking out the safe low-water zone. A small lane passing through town now carries 2-way traffic. There is the usual beach selection of stores, but with proprietors standing idly about accosting passers-by to come into their non-air conditioned shop. And we choose this over Waikiki? Hotel nights I spent on Koh Samui: 3; really worth, 2 or 3.

Hong Kong Regal Airport Hotel: new and very stylish in the art deco style. Cool, great air conditioning, and sleek; costly too. But, a great place to be the night before if the flight back home to New York departs at 8:30 the next morning. Hotel nights I spent here: 1; really worth: 1.

Once again, please accept my cordial thanks to all those on this board who so thoughtfully responded to my earlier questions and inquiries.

orgy7

well at least you've learned that your more into modern over exotic locations. maybe japan (tokyo or shanghai) should fit the bill on your next trip..

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uhh maybe you havnt traveled around the third world much but poor people are usually the folk that live next too rivers probaly becouse rivers in third world contries are smelly, sewage filled water flows that flood rugularly.. and anyways there are not enough rich people and high end properties too line the rivers for your pleasure in most places on earth..
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taipai is rarely mentioned on this forum but I to enjoyed it..

KimJapan

It sounds like you covered quite a bit of ground and your trip was quite an experience. Also sounds like it was quite an eye-opener. Maybe after some time has passed you'll be able to see the more positive aspects of your trip.

A large portion of Asia is not as economically well off as the part of the world you are from. People don't consider Pampers and air conditioning essential to life goods...they can't afford to. Nevertheless, rather than wondering what on earth is wrong with these places, being critical and complaining about the "hardship" you had to face when your air con wasn't cool enough, might I suggest trying to take away something positive. Perhaps making a mental note to yourself to be grateful for what you have...to be grateful that your financial circumstances have allowed you to travel halfway around the world. Perhaps learn something from the people themselves...simple is often better in many ways.

Maybe the poverty is not photogenic to you...but an experience that might be very rewarding might be to carry an instamatic camera with you and take pictures of people you encounter (with their permission of course) and give them the photo. Having photos of themselves and their families is a real treat for many.

Perhaps Asia just isn't your cup of tea...which is fine. I just think it's unfortunate that you could travel and see so much have so little to say about it that's good.

Mealea

Orgy and Kim Japan, I really agree with your comments. Well said, both of you.

JohnWM, your comments don't seem mean-spirited at all, just naive. I don't think you meant anything critical, but please realize you're imposing your cultural values and standards on another culture. Maybe another trip abroad will help you shift your perspective to be able to see things not only from your own cultural background. It seems to me you haven't traveled much in the developing world, but anyway, I'm glad you took a trip to Asia and hopefully you came away some some insights and interesting experiences.

To tell you the truth, you went to the pretty mainstream tourist places in Asia. I wonder how you would have felt seeing even less developed places.

The thing that struck me in your post is that you never mentioned the "people" in any of these places. It seems that you didn't have the chance to make any personal connections with the people in the countries you visited. For me and many other travelers, this is what makes traveling really special and worthwhile. Seeing the sights is not really my priority - I want to talk to people and get to a deeper level of the culture. I think if you had been able to do this, you might have come away with a different feeling. Well, maybe you'll have more time on another trip.

I agree with orgy's comment that maybe you'd feel better in a more developed place like Japan. Anyway, it's good you had the chance to travel to all of these places and I hope you'll have a chance to come back to Asia again.

As a side comment, it's funny that many people who travel only to Siem Reap to see Angkor really believe that Siem Reap/Angkor=Cambodia. You can't begin to understand a country or its people by spending just a few days in a tourist bubble.

Just curious, but were you by any chance on a package tour through all of these places? There was a clue, I thought, when you mentioned the Mongolian barbeque place in Taipei. That's on the itinerary of every big package tour that stops in Taipei and I've heard it's not very pleasant. I don't think an independent traveler would ever find their way there. I agree with orgy, Taipei is interesting and I enjoy it too, although not many people make it there. As you said, it's great old-fashioned Chinese culture.

DonTopaz

Thanks for sharing your comments and feedback, JohnWM. Contributors to this board may not always view things in the identical way, but who is to say that one perspective is more or less valid than another?

That said, I find that the museum on Kowloon to be one of the world's great urban eyesores. From Kowloon, it effectively blocks out the world's finest cityscape (the sight of Victoria Harbour); from HK Island or from the Star Ferry, it is a giant pink elephant, a monolith, utterly out of place in its surroundings.

laurieco

Thanks for sharing your report. You should give Bangkok another chance however. The first time I went to BKK, I hated it. I felt the same way you did. However, when I went back the second time, It shot up to my favorite city in the world and I've been there several times since and it still is my favorite. You need to look below the surface to find the beauty but believe me, it's there. Many Asian cities, BKK included, can seem a little "dumpy" and depressing as you say but once you begin to really explore and look for those totally unique things and experiences, the real beauty of these places begin to unfold. You need to get off the tourist track and find it, beginning with the gentle, humble people in these places. I really hope you will go back with an open mind and see the unique beauty and elegance these cities have to offer.

fiona

The most enjoyable days are ones where you just wander around different disticts and mingle with the locals. we kind of did the touristy bits the twice I have been to Bangkok- next time is definitely the wandering!! I particularly enjoyed this in Hong Kong.
I have to say that the most interesting parts of the river trips for me are seeing how the locals live!
We can't all like the same things though.

JohnWM

As a follow-up to my posting, for those who inquired:

Yes, the new Museum of Art in Kowloon is indeed an eyesore! I spoke with local HK'ers who told me that there was quite a scandal recently when such prime land on the harbor was given over to the Museum (which had on the day of my visit only about 20 persons present).

Yes, Taipei was delightful (in spite of that awful Mongolian restaurant) and very much undervisited. Everywhere I went I encountered persons who had lived in North American or who had relatives here.

Yes, many locals in SE Asia with whom I spoke seem to speak some variant of English. Mostly they are speaking a rapid-fire version of colonial British. They do enjoy practicing with us Americans though because they recognize our speech from the Hollywood movies and the dubbed TV programs that they receive. The locals just can't pronounce our speech very well as they lack practice with it - - - probably because so many North Americans are too busy running off to Beijing instead.

No, I did not travel on a group or escorted or guided tour. I travelled solo, as an independent person. Many leads came to me as suggesions from those of you on this board. I successfully bid at auction for a round trip ticket JFK - HKG; afterwards I booked air segments for travel within Asia directly via the airline websites; finally I booked hotels through AsiaHotels.com. Once settled in a city, I wandered about on my own on some days while on other days I signed up for day or evening tours.

Yes, air conditioning is important to me when the temperature is about 90 -95 degrees F. with high humidity because I have emphysema, and so everything I do already is a struggle. Nonetheless, the world is here to been seen and heard, its warts and our frailties notwithstanding. Some parts of it though are simply not as interesting as others, usually because of the behavior of the natives. Intimating that povery is somehow picturesque or ennobling is wrong; it merely prolongs the degradation the locals are experiencing. For those in economically advantaged countries who haven't noticed, there is absolutely no shortage of Mercedes Benz limousines for government officials in Thailand and Cambodia.

Once again, thanks kindly for sharing your experiences earlier with me. They were so very helpful in the planning stage.

KimJapan

One thought that comes to mind about poverty is that it is pervasive throughout the world. One can see shocking poverty on the streets of New York. There are unbelievable pockets of poverty and squalor to be found in all areas of the United States. I don't think anyone said poverty was photogenic, but it is certainly an unfortunate fact of life.

"Some parts of it though are simply not as interesting as others, usually because of the behavior of the natives."
This seems to be a rather ethnocentric statement, implying that the "natives" should live their lives with western values, practices and amenities. The world just doesn't work that way. What makes the world an interesting and diverse place is the fact that there are cultural differences.

fiona

Intimating that povery is somehow picturesque or ennobling is wrong

I hope that wasn't due to my post! I said that seeing how people lived along the river was interesting, not picturesque!
Re the poverty I have to admit that although I found the Grand palace stunning I did feel uncomfortable with the thought of the obscene amount of money this cost.I didn't get the feeling that the locals felt the same way though.

Gpanda

JohnWM-Thanks for your report. It's refreshing to read a different opinion, even if I don't agree. I envy your ability to spend an entire month in Asia. I'm sorry you did not like BKK. We love it. Except for the touts, every Thai we've encountered has been warm, welcoming and helpful. As opposed to most tourist destinations, Thailand and BKK seem to relish the symbiotic relationship rather than resent an economic difference. Where did you have the best meal in your journey?

lcuy

Yes it is inconsiderate when shops in hot countries don't have air conditioning...probably because the owners can't afford it at home,so may not realize how uncomfortable you are.

In all your time on this site, did you not realize that May in SE ASia would be extremely hot and humid??

Of course, as you noticed, when you did find cool and well lit shops in the wealthier areas, the bargains were not to be found.

I'm sorry that you had difficulty understanding the residents of these Southeast Asian nations. However,I don't think is is because all the North Americans are running off to Beijing that they "...just can't pronounce our speech very well..", its BECAUSE ENGLISH IS NOT THEIR NATIVE LANGUAGE!!!

Like everyone above has said so diplomatically, I think you'd be best to stick with places like Tokyo or New York City. Well, maybe not NYC since it is so hot and humid, has so many poor homeless people, and a lot of places serve questionable food.

lcuy

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound so snappy. I guess it's like when you treat a friend to dinner at your favorite hole-in-the-wall restaurant and all they do is critcise the food and the location....

JohnWM

Hello, GPanda! You asked where I had the best meal of my journey. WOW! I had many 'best' meals, each good until I experienced the next.

In Hong Kong, my hotel served buffet breakfast with a Chinese table, a Japanese table, and a Western table. Each morning I first had the Chinese items with a few Japanese items, followed by the Western items. The barbequed pork dim sum buns were great, and I felt virtuous eating the steamed vegetables early in the morning.

In Macau, I had a grand buffet lunch at the Plaza Hotel as part of a day tour of the territory.

In Taipei, I enjoyed many fish dinners of the local catch. Stunning!

In Singapore, a hotel I did not stay in was offering a seafood buffet on Friday evenings. I went, and found it bountiful!

In Cambodia, the restaurant Koulen in Siem Reap offered a nice ethnic buffet spread before the presentation of national dancing; I enjoyed a similar ethnic buffet in Kuala Lumpur, also before the presentation of national dancing.

On the outskirts of Bangkok, I enjoyed a simple steamed country meal at an open air pavillion in a national park setting, with an elephant ride after dessert.

Good meals are not very hard to come by. A tourist simply has to be cautious. Some establishments look neat, clean, and wholesome; others seem to be unsanitary from the get-go.

In general I did find that many hotels offered buffet meals; with free-standing restaurants it was a mix of menu items and buffet items.

Tere

I haven't been to the other cities you mention ( except a layover in Singapore) but I have to agree with you with Bangkok. I found it a dump. The only thing I really enjoyed was staying at the Peninsula (though I have already criticized their service...)so if I go to Thailand again I will give it a miss. Most people love it though!

And I am glad you enjoyed Kuala Lumpur. I am heading there next August and though almost everyone here doesn't like it I have the feeling I will like it a lot. If it's very different from Bangkok, I will like it for sure...But then, tastes are tastes

Thanks for the nice report.

JohnWM

Hi, Tere! Glad to hear that you too will be travelling to Kuala Lumpur. I loved it, and will return next year. I think that KL and Malaysia simply don't get enough good press; they both have a whole lot more going for them than Thailand does. It was in KL where I found the greatest number of persons speaking the best sort of English. KL was also a modern with-in town with nice shopping malls, many outdoor attractions, and good quality restaurants for native and foreign food. By coincidence, I was able to retain the services of a well spoken taxi driver for about 4 hours one day; he asked for about $US25. I had asked to be driven to some attaction or other, and he volunteered himself. I had a great time with him and his air conditioned cab, as he was quite knowledgeable about KL and brought me around to the National Mosque, the Orchid Garden, the Bird Park, the KL Tower, and several other areas. I always had good, friendly conversations with the KL'ers, who always asked me where I was from, what sights I had seen, etc. They all seemed like such good, sensible persons. I mention this, by the way, as a Christian man travelling through a Moslem land. Yes, I had a great time in KL, and can't wait to return next year! Hope you enjoy your visit there too.

tripgirl

JohnM,

With all due respect, your postings remind me why I travel: to experience cultures UNLIKE my own.

Seems througout your postings you want everything sanitized; that the people in KL spoke good English, etc.

Yes, its nice to have people speak English, oh what fun you miss though in cultures that English is not spoken well.

At least you know what you like I suppose, but personally I think you miss out on the very hidden glories of unsanitized, "rough" and unpredictable travel!

Sounds like overall you had your own good time and I guess that is what matters most.

tripgirl

and also:

What does your being a Christian man have anything to do with traveling through a Muslim land.

I'm a Jew, but I don't go around announcing it and so what anyway!

fiona

tripgirl
you have just announced it here!
John has just posted his observations and is probably wishing he hadn't bothered now!

orgy7

Im the tipe of guy that calls a spade a spade.. and yes bangkok is kind of fugly but it is one of the olderst cities you wnet too and has not been totaly rebiult becouse of ww2 and other coflicts..

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I'm not sure what is up with your comment about english language in asian contries.. or is it american language in asia..

last I checked southerners (americans) cant speek neither and we as americans don't speak original queens english, but thats languages natureal course of butchering itself..

I put my fair share in destroying the language threw my awfull spelling..

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I'm kind of intersting in knowing if your a young guy or older fella.. some of us here started of travaling threw sanitized europe and the caribian and have moved on too the more exotic.. maybe that may be your path or NOT.