Hello,
My husband and I will be visiting Thailand for the first time in December (I know, busiest time to go!) We are not avid sightseeing types and much prefer shopping, outdoor activities (ie hiking, snorkeling, etc), and experiencing a lot of local culture. We would love to experience as much of Thailand as we can, not knowing if we will ever have another opportunity to revisit again. We're aware that with such a short amount of time we can only do so much. Here is our proposed itinerary, using a Thai Air pass:

Dec 16-Leave Seattle for LA>HK>BKK on Cathay Business Class

Dec 18, 4pm- Bangkok (3days, 2nts)
Patpong Night Market (is this recommended?)
Visit nearby Temples and Wats

Dec 20, 8pm- Chiang Mai (4 days, 3nts)
Elephant Nature Park (or other?)
Night Bazaar
Lisu Lodge day tour (cycling,trekking,rafting)

Dec 24 am- Phuket, Krabi, and surrounding islands(7 days, 6 nts)

Dec 31 am- Bangkok
Celebrate New Year's Eve

Dec 2 am- Fly home to Seattle

For accommodations, we are staying at the JW Marriott in Phuket. We are looking for something under 3000BHT per night in Chiang Mai, walking distance to restaurants and shopping. One option we have looked into is Baan Orapin, although a traditional bungalow is preferred. Any suggestions?

Are we cramming too much in the short time we are there? We are nature and animal lovers, so spending time with elephants (but not exploiting them) is important to us. Does anyone have any recommendations for reputable mahouts/elephant centers? We are aware of an Elephant Rehab center in Phuket but I hear that elephants are not even indigenous to that region. Otherwise, we would skip Chiang Mai altogether and be quite content with a majority of our time at the beach.

Any suggestions for New Year's Eve celebrations not to miss in Bangkok? Does anyone know of any threat/repeat of last year's Bangkok bombing, and should we be concerned?

Thank you for any thoughts and suggestions!

You don't say where you are staying in BKK for New Years Eve. Many of the hotels offer their own gala events for NYE and will charge you for it, whether you go or not. Price could be mandatory.

I've spent two NYE's on Phuket, at Mom Tri's Villa Royale villas and thought they had a very nice gala dinner with fireworks. DS has been in BKK around the Central World Plaza complex for NYE and says it is a fun area to visit on that evening (altho that's where one of the bombs went off the last time and festivities were cancelled).

I would spend more time in Bangkok (BKK). You say you like shopping. You will have a hard time matching the shopping in Bangkok!!! Trust me!!!

I think you have too much time in Phuket and not enough time in Bangkok.

Specific receommendations: I wouldn't recommend Patpong night market . What are you shopping for? We can give you better recommendations if you tell us what you want to buy. There is much to do and see in Bangkok. With just a couple of days, you won;t really have a chance to experience it.

I'm not fond of Chiang Mai. I'd recommend the Golden Triangle area, specifically the Anantara at the Golden Triangle for you. They have a small branch of the elephant conservation camp on the grounds. You can opt for mahout training or just hang out with the elephants. Not only do you get access to elephants and to less traveled hill-tribes areas, etc, you get a fabulous resort with a fabulous spa and a great cooking class. Skip CM, take a day from Phuket, and enjoy this wonderful place.

The beaches at Phuket are nice, but if you are looking for culture, the beach isn't the place to go. Which is why I recommend shortening your time there and adding to Bangkok and to the Golden Triangle area.

I agree with Kathie about the Anantara and the elephant camp there. The Anantara's program is very good. www.helpingelephants.org www.anantara.com. An alternative near Chiang Mai is the Thai Elephant Conservation Center www.changthai.com.

While the ENP is an option, it's been my experience that visitors come away from there with the incorrect belief that anyone who offers riding elephants or shows has trained their elephants in cruel ways and regularly mistreats them. I won't tell you that there are many places that are great to their elephants and mahouts, but there are a few that are. The ones I know of are the Anantara, The Four Seasons Tented Camp, and the Thai Elephant Conservation.

The ENP is a wonderful place for what it is (a refuge for some abused and injured elephants), but I've yet to encounter a person who has come away from there with opinions about Thailand's elephants that aren't one-sided and quite extreme, not to mention impractical. Keep in mind that the ENP is exploiting their elephants for all they are worth to keep them fed, too. Tourists who visit there pay a good amount of money to go there and have a feed the elephants experience and hear their terrible stories. Were their elephants not victims of accidents or abuse, they would also have no business...so keep that in mind when you make your choice, and keep in mind that the other places I mentioned also rescue abused and injured elephants and give them a refuge.

Of course it would be wonderful if all of the elephants could lead a life a leisure and eat their fill of natural plants in a forest...but really, that isn't going to happen. So alternatives really have to be considered. The Thai Elephant Conservation Center and the others I mentioned are actively doing just that.

Bangkok is great for shopping, but the Patpong market area is sleezey imo, and the stuff for sale there is quite junky but not very cheap. We didn't like it at all years ago, and I can't imagine it's gotten better. There are much better places to shop, so if you have an idea what you are looking for the expert shoppers here will guide you I'm sure.

Where we did see some unique and interesting things on offer was the Sunday Walking Street in Chiang Mai. We also loved the atmosphere there...it was fun...street performances, random mini parades, sellers selling everything from underwear and kitchen utensils to Thai Barbie outfits, handmade soap, wood carvings, clothes...everything you can imagine. There is a great foot massage area set up in an intersection, too. Lots of food from stalls set up in the temple grounds. All around great. Much, much better than Chiang Mai's usual night market, which we also found sold a lot of junk and was short on things that were of good quality.

I think your Phuket time at the JW Marrioitt is just right. They have so much on offer there that is interesting...right at the hotel. The activities for all ages are amazing...check their website and download the MAZE schedule. There is yoga, batik, bicycling, photo tour, spa, pilates...my daughter and I will spend a week there this summer and I'm really looking forward to it.

I would skip the elephant rehab center in Phuket. It's really a place where your can ride elephants and they also have some gibbons. I fail to see the rehab part, unless rehab means that tourists provide enough money to feed them well. You will have a much, much nicer elephant experience at the TECC or the Anantara.

You indicate in your original query that you want to enjoy the cultural aspects of Thailand. If this is a determining factor, you should not spend that much time in Phuket. There is very little Thai culture there. It is entirely tourist oriented. The whole island is designed to create a comfortable vacation spot for tourists. It is Thai light at best. Both BKK and Chiang Mai are much more "authentic". You could go to BKK, fly to Chiang Rai, motor to Chiang Mai and fly to Phuket. To make this work, you should cut 2 or 3 days from Phuket and add them in Chiang Rai.

Don't agonize too much over perfect planning. You will have a wonderful time, no matter where you go in Thailand.

I have seen quite a few posts recommending Anantara, but Chiang Mai in this forum. Both Chiang Mai and Anantara are my favorite places in Thailand. I think that the choice between Chiang Mai and Anantara will depend on what kind of vaction you are expecting.
Anantara is a very nice resort, and its property and scenery is very beautiful. We had fabulous four days at Anatara. You can enjoy everything in the resort even the elephant camp is located inside the resort. There is no restaurant or bar outsode the resort in a walking distance. So, you need to eat and drink in the resort. Even if you hire a car to nearby cities, there is almost no choice of eating places in these small cities. I think that Golden Triangle itself may not really a interesting place if you want to see Thai people and Thai culture. Big Buddha is a joke, which was built just for the tourism.
As many people said in the forum, Chaing Mai is a middle sized city with some air pollution and traffics (Not really a large city (2 miles x 2 miles) although some people though it is large). It does not have public transportation, but there are so many tuktuks available and you can go anywhere in the city in a short time. If you like to see Thai hospitality, local Thai people and Thai culture, I think that Chiang Mai is a place. There are many small hotels and guest houses where you can meet local Thais, which we rarely experienced in Bangkok. Sunday Market is fabulous with its incredible atmosphere, music, smell, and local people. If you are expecting the resort type vacation, I think that Chaing Mai may not be a place for you.
For Accommodation in Chang Mai with your price range, you can check the following places beside Baan Orapin. All of them get good reviews
River Ping Palace
Tamarind Village
Baan Rai Lanna Resort

i too dislike chiang mai and would highly suggest you consider chiang rai and north, especially the anantara near chiang saen....plenty of elephant activities there for you...

you must make reservations soon for this busy season for your hotels...most hotels will require the mandatory dinner on new years eve and some will on christmas eve as well....they are VERY expensive...i would avoid them....

patpong is a good walk through experience for the sleeze side of bkk, but not a good shopping area, except for rip off junk...

plenty of decent places to shop....if it is still open the suan lum nite market at the corner of wireless rd and rama IV is far better...

as someone suggested, tell us whre you plan to stay in bkk and we will make tons of suggestions for you....eating too....

I have to disagree that the Golden Triangle is not a good place to see Thai people and culture, and that there are few places to eat in the area.

From the Anantara, you can take a boat to Sop Ruak, or you can walk, it's only 2 km, or you can arrange transport. In Sop Ruak, there are a few riverside restaurants, some shops selling souvenir type things, and some tour agencies, too. There are restaurants everywhere in Thailand...the thing that might have thrown wlee88 is that once you leave the resort atmosphere, there are no longer any restaurants that are western style or resemble resort restaurants or city restaurants. There are small family run places, usually with only a few tables and chairs and a wok or two...absolutely a cultural experience and very close to Thai people. The Anantara has a warning in their literature about local eating places, saying they can't guarantee their quality/cleanliness and that they can pack you a picnic. Eating at local places is fine for some, but not for others...but it is certainly an option.

The Golden Triangle has easy access to lots of cultural things, but you do need to leave the Anantara. You can arrange all kinds of tours with the hotel or you are of course free to use someone in Sop Ruak or another that you book otherwise, like from a recommendation. The area is rich with many hill tribes in easy reach, tea plantations in Doi Mae Salong, lychee plantations, the Opium museum (right at the Anantara gate), Doi Tung Royal Villa...and more. In order to have the best experience possible, I would definitely steer clear of the usual cookie cutter tour of Chiang Saen, the Golden Triangle photo op stop, and the boat to the Lao island shopping stop. There is much more to see that is more interesting.

I also disagree with wlee88 that if you want a resort vacation Chiang Mai is not for you. We stayed at Yaang Come Village there, and it has a very peaceful and welcoming atmosphere, nice pool and fine restaurant. In a higher price bracket, the Four Seasons Chiang Mai and the Mandarin Oriental Chiang Mai are two places that are both resort style and absolutely luxurious and gorgeous. The Chedi is another very nice option. And of course, there are many other places to choose from, for all tastes and budgets.

I don't think you can go wrong with either Chiang Mai or the Golden Triangle.

Experiencing local Thai culture is desirable, but definitely not a determining factor for us considering our limited time. Coming from cold and rainy Seattle, it would be a nice break for us just to get in as much beach time as possible, as touristy as Phuket sounds. We're both active, in our early 30's and more interested in R&R and outdoor/beach pursuits instead of nightlife. Our plan is to visit Phi Phi on day trip from Phuket, and to visit Raillay Beach in Krabi for some rock climbing. We've also considered the Golden Triangle instead of Chiang Mai, but I think that Chiang Mai sounds more our style. As for the shopping suggestions, we definitely will consider adding a day to BKK to explore and experience the city! The Sunday Walking Market and Thai Elephant Conservation Ctr in CM sounds great, too. Thanks to the posts about Patpong--we'll definitely skip it.

Haven't booked anything for New Yr's Eve in Bangkok yet, but the Thai Air pass requires travel to be complete by 12/31/07 which is why we have to be back in BKK for NYE, otherwise we'd love to stay in Phuket for the NYE celebration... I think I'll make a separate post about NYE in BKK.

How will the weather be in Chiang Mai in December?

most likely hot and humid based on what you are used to....same in bkk...

some will say it will be cool...the last two years there have been slightly cooler temps but nothing like seattle in december!!

For Chiang Mai:
The weather in December is cooler than other times of year, but not cold for most people. At night at the TECC, I wore a fleece because I was cold, and I had layers of t-shirt, long sleeves and mahout suit shirt in the early morning for elephant fetching. Daytime, in the sun, it was hot. My daughter swam every day in the pool at Yaang Come Village.

There are a number of very nice places to stay in the Chiang Mai area in addition to the Four Seasons, Mandarin Oriental, Chedi, Yaang Come Village, Baan Orapin. The Field Village, Baan Rai Lanna, Baan Tazala, Baan Namping, Kao Mai Lanna, Fern Paradise...many really neat places to stay.

You might also be interested in Fern Resort outside of Mae Hong Son, or Chaing Dao Nest, both really nice places that have had excellent reviews.

Climbing in Railey would be really great. The day trip to Phi Phi from Phuket, though, I would skip. Being the busiest time of year, it will be you and many other people dropped at the same beach for snorkeling. You don't get all that much time and you really don't get any quiet time. Your view of Maya Bay is one with many other tourists rather than the pristine beach you might imagine from the movie. You'd be better to do John Gray Sea Canoe Hong by Starlight trip in Phang Nga bay...they go out when the other 20 some odd boats are going in, and you have the hongs to yourself. The lunch and dinner are great on the boat, and the hongs are special, really special, in the dark...you can see the luminescent algae glowing in the water, and there is a very special night activity where you make a kratong and float it. http://johngray-seacanoe.com/

You say in your original post.....
'prefer shopping, outdoor activities (ie hiking, snorkeling, etc), and experiencing a lot of local culture.'

Well unlike many of the regulars on this forum,I think you will get all of that in abundance at Phuket. As much as I like Bangkok,after a couple of days I am ready to get out and breathe some fresh air. You must remember that Bangkok is one of the most polluted cities in the world and most of the time, you sure know it. Nevertheless, it is a must for your trip.

You talk about a day trip to Phi Phi....the worst way to see the island and I fear you will be disappointed if you do it that way. If you want to visit Phi Phi then try to stay a couple of nights.
Here are a few temples worth visiting in Phuket; Chalong Temple (Wat Chalong)
Wat Sri Sunthorn
Wat Phra Thong
Wat Phra Nang Sang
Wat Sapam
Koh Sirey Temple
Patong Temple
Kathu and Ket Ho Temples
Kamala Temple

Much more info if you wish at
www.leightravelclub.com

There are loads of links from our Thailand page, you should be able to find most of the info you need.

Based on your interests I would reduce your time in Phuket or eliminate it since it could be anywhere in the world. I would concentrate my time in chiang mai and other parts of northern thailand -- golden triangle or other parts. Baan Orapin is a fabulous place to stay in Chiang Mai.

I really enjoy Phuket, and the weather is so lovely during Dec/Jan. I would definitely leave Phuket in your schedule, especially since you said you want beach time.

I prefer the southwestern area of the island (Kata, Kata Noi beach area) and have always stayed in this location. Take a look at the Kata Thani Resort, although you may be too late to get a room. This is a very busy time of the year for Phuket. We tried to book our villa a year out, and still did not get the one we wanted, during the holiday season. The "regulars" keep their villa from year to year, I think.

I hope you can spend enough time in Bangkok to get a feel for the city. It is a fantastic place, filled with lovely people, shopping, culture, food, entertainment, etc. Yes, it has polution problems, but it is a huge place with traffic problems!! But for me, the positives outweigh the negatives about this city.

Do let us know your budget and we will suggest hotels/restaurants/markets for you to try.

Carol

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by all the great advice from everyone. I'm pleased that no one is convinced we are overdoing it with only 16 days to spend in Thailand. I think our biggest problem is figuring out where to stay in BKK both when we arrive there and for the last two days that we are in BKK before we catch our flight back home to the states. We've already booked our stay at the JW in Phuket using our points (you can't beat a deal like that!) And I'm getting ready to contact Baan Orapin as soon as I can secure our Thai Air passes--hopefully it's not too late to book something there in Chiang Mai if Baan Orapin is full.

Our budget in BKK for a hotel would be $75-$150US/nt. In Bangkok we would like to be on the river, if possible.

A few restaurants we'd like to consider trying that I've heard about on this forum and through my research are:
-Face
-Bed Supper Club
-Sky Restaurant and Bar
I haven't researched any in Chiang Mai or Phuket yet. For food, we do not want to set a budget as we feel that our meals will probably be so inexpensive compared to what you would pay here, and we are fairly open to a variety of cuisines. Of course, we would love to try some great and authentic Thai cuisine as well, with atmosphere to boot! We'd also love to try the cuisine sold by street vendors and at the markets. Any other recommendations? I welcome any suggestions for restaurants in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, and Phuket!

Regarding "Sky Restaurant/Bar"...
Sky Bar is just that... a bar. It's on about the 64th floor of a building called State Tower. Adjacent to the bar is an outdoor restaurant that gets both good and bad reviews. I've been told by friends that the new Breeze (I think that's the name) is a wonderful outdoorsy restaurant just about 2 floors, maybe 3, from the rooftop Sky Bar. I'm hoping to take a look at Breeze on my July trip. We shall see...

In any case, the view from Sky Bar is absolutely fantastic! You won't be disappointed in that one, at all.

Carol

Forgot to say that I also enjoy Face and Bed Supper Club.

Breeze, I should have said, is on the 51st and 52nd floors... just checked at bangkok.com for that information. It is getting some good reviews anyway.

DS is in BKK right now. I'll have to ask him to check it out!

Carol

Poor gloria, Phuket...could be anywhere in the world... is just such a nonsense statement.

Having travelled to every continent, and experienced many, many cultures, I still return again and again to the Phuket area of Thailand. Nowhere else pulls me back for a repeat visit, nevermind the scores of times I have gone back here. In fact I have tried many of the 'so called dream destinations' trying to rid myself of my Thailand infatuation, but I have yet to find anywhere to compare with Phi Phi.......for a beach destination.

Coming from cold and rainy Seattle,forget the north,and get yourselves down south and enjoy the woderful, unique, beach experience. Just choose carefully, we have many years experience here so just ask if you want any specific info.

Rho -- We did a Phuket, Chiang Rai (Anantara), Bangkok trip as well 2 years ago. We spent 3 nights on Phuket and the main highlight there for us was the John Gray "Starlight Kayak Tour". IMO, it's a do not miss! Anantara was just wonderful and we hired a guide for the day instead of using Anantara's. About 1/4 the price. The elephants, spa, pool, food is great there. The best shopping we found was at Chatuchak in Bangkok, so make sure your there either Fri, Sat or Sun and may just as well saved all of our buying for that one market, but it was still fun picking stuff up as we went. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think you save with the Thai Airpass for just those legs, I can't remember now...

Anway, have a blast! You will for sure. BTW, I'm from Seattle too...long flight, but worth it I would suggest though, spending 3 nights in Bangkok for your 1st leg and shortening Phuket.

hip---can you post that guide's contact info again for up north?? thanks