marvelousmouse

I keep coming back to the idea of another month long international trip for 2019. And Japan is calling. Well, so is Italy, Greece, and most of Asia, so I’m open to suggestions. Japan is especially tempting, though, becaus no visa is required. Also, food, Shinto shrines, and Japanese trains!

If you hadn’t seen my previous trip report, I went to Japan last summer. And I know I don’t want to do summer again. I don’t think I want winter either. I want to be able to hike and enjoy the parks, gardens and castles. So that means spring or fall. What month would you choose and why? I was thinking May/June, but would fall be better?

I’ve tagged Cambodia, Vietnam, China, Singapore, and Thailand, though, because they’re on my bucket list and I currently have a high school friend living in China. It’d be nice to visit her. But I’m wondering about safety and the visa application process. Thoughts? Do you buy a plane ticket before or after you apply for a visa? Because I’m assuming you need proof of onward travel but it makes me nervous to purchase a plane ticket if I don’t know if I’d get a visa. I’m probably overthinking it, I just have never had to apply for one before. I’m not sure if I’d enjoy a tour, but would any of those be better as part of a tour?

Kavey

On our first trip our 2.5 weeks straddled September / October.
On our second trip our 3 weeks straddled October/ November.
On our third trip our 4 weeks were late March through to late April, avoiding Golden Week.

All three were great times to travel, but I would probably not choose April again as the extra crowds for cherry blossom season were significant, and prices for accommodation higher.

Of the two autumn trips, both timings worked for us.

We are planning to go back in 2019 for our 25th wedding anniversary, which falls in early September but will probably push the trip to be in October as that's better weather for our preferences.

marvelousmouse

Thanks, Kavey. Did you notice a particular time that the weather “turned” in the fall? Or perhaps that’s not the best way to phrase it- but I’d like more fall color than November gray if you know what I mean. Did you pack more summer or winter clothes?

yes, I wasn’t seriously considering cherry blossom season. I knew it was expensive, and the crowds aren’t attractive after Gion Matsuri. The festivals were really neat but I would like to enjoy Kyoto at a quieter time. There is so much I did not get to see!

Kathie

We went to Japan in November and felt it was the ideal time. We had lovely koyo (fall colors) and the weather was good (except in Kanazawa).

Enjoy your trip - wherever month you decide on!

HappyTrvlr

In regard to China, what are you worried about as far as safety? I never felt unsafe in three trips to many different regions of China. When I applied for a Chinese visa at the Chinese Consukate in NYC, I had to show my airline and hotel reservations.You can also apply for one theough a visa agency for a fee.

marvelousmouse

I suppose safety in terms of being a solo female traveler? How is traveling on transit, am I safe walking alone at night in the cities, what should I be aware of. With China, though, I’m more worried about language barrier, I guess. The people I know who have been to China did so on a tour and insist that it was necessary for translation/political reasons. I was doubting that was true, but I know there are some places I’d be more comfortable as part of a group.

Adastra2200

I won't get into some comparison of one country being "better" than another. Go to the place that interests you.
I would point out though, that Japan covers a lot of latitudes - so you can go in the summer and visit northern Honshu and Hokkaido, and largely escape the sweltering muggy heat. Most tourists ignore the whole area as well, so there are far fewer crowds. You can also take advantage of some incredible air fares (just over ¥5000 yen a flight) from ANA and JAL, plus the LCCs, and the new JR Tohoku South Hokkaido Rail Pass makes a Sapporo base feasible for the first time.
Getting to your main question, both spring and fall are great times to see Japan. The next issue is if you are targeting the cherry blossoms or autumn leaves (koyo). If so, the window gets narrower especially for the former. But again, you can still avoid the tourist mobs by going in mid April or early May and going up north. The autumn leaves are typically best in the latter half of November or early December for the southern half of the country. There are fewer crowds (except at the most popular places) and it is longer, so less frenetic.If that is not a vital component, then overall I would still say fall is more reliable - after typhoon season passes, you get lots of clear and cool weather, very comfortable, and still not chilly enough to have to bundle up all the time. I've spent a dozen in Japan, and running my motorcycle through the mountains is one of my fondest memories.
It would help though if you gave more info on what part of the country you are interested in concentrating on, or if you want to fly all over to missed places from past trips.

MmePerdu

The people you know who have been to China are either justifying their own course of action or don't know any better. But if you're more comfortable in a group other places, that may be true in China also. I wouldn't for a moment give up my independent wanderings for the supposed safety or comfort of a group and feel, really, little is gained and much is lost. I've been places in China where no one spoke a word of English and it simply wasn't a problem. Slightly slower to communicate at times but our needs while traveling fall into a limited number of groups - transport, shelter, food, and toilets. People everywhere want to help you and it's usually pretty obvious what it is we need at any given time and, when it isn't, sign language will get us there. I'd urge you to give up the fear and go for the adventure. So worthwhile.

marvelousmouse

Mmeperdu- I thought they were justifying it, but I wanted to get the fodorite perspective. I’m not uncomfortable in places where English is less spoken, I haven’t found it to be a problem. The only reason I would really consider a tour is for transportation. I did have a little trouble navigating the less touristy places in Japan because the bus signs were in kanji. And I wasn’t sure if China was more like Europe/Japan or more like the US. Is it fairly easy to get around by bus or train?

“Want” wise, I think it’s tied between China and Cambodia. Japan is just tempting because I loved it, and know it’s easy to get around. I’m definitely going back even if it’s not next year.

Adastra- I haven’t decided if I want to focus on a specific region or if I wanted hop all over the place. But I think I might head south- there’s a lot I didn’t get to see in that direction. The fall weather sounds ideal though, exactly what I was looking for!

MmePerdu

It depends on where you'll be in China and how you decide to get from place to place. I found when it was most efficient to go by taxi, my accommodations arranged it. I bought train tickets mostly from English-speaking agents in medium-sized and smaller towns, from English-speaking ticket sellers at stations in cities. I caught a bus along the side of a road with the help of a taxi driver who took me to the unmarked stop, waited with me and told the driver where I wanted to go. I bought an overnight tour of an area I especially wanted to see from an English-speaking agent and spent the next 2 days on a bus, in a hotel and with a guide, none of whom spoke English but the all-except-me Chinese tour participants were kind and great companions nonetheless. I bought internal flights and booked hotels on Chinese websites ctrip.com & elong.net with an English-language option. Where there's a will, there's a way and I never didn't get to where I wanted to go. I find the less I know when I start, the more satisfying it is when I succeed.

kja

For Japan, I was glad I visited in May – lots of interesting things (e.g., an odori, noh performances, ukai) and the iris and azelia were in full bloom in many of the parts of visited. The later in the month, the more humid it got, so I’m not sure I would go any later than that. If I could afford koyo, though, I’d see if I could hit the timing.

I generally travel in May, and have avoided Camboida, Vietnam, southern China, and Thailand as I can’t imagine traveling to any of them in the weather that prevails during May. I’ve been to Singapore in May, but because I was on my way to Indonesia. Singapore itself was hot and humid – almost unbearably so.

I have been to northern China in May (solo female) and as long as you work around that first week (holidays), it should work out well. I’m not sure what your safety concerns are – I felt perfectly safe throughout, and traveled alone and off the Western tourist trail. You know how to find my trip report; but note that traveling there is much easier than it was when I went (for example, because it is now easy to buy train tickets in advance). There is absolutely NO reason to take a tour unless that’s your preference, and there are MANY good reasons to AVOID tours in China. It is VERY easy to get around by train or bus.

kja

Given the new, uh, challenges of finding trip reports, I thought I'd link in the report of my time in China:
Thanks for helping make my trip to China amazing!

marvelousmouse

Thanks, Kja! Yes, I was not having much luck tracking down trip reports. Yours looks great, can’t wait to read it.

good to know you can buy train tickets online. That is one of the things I was wondering about it. I had suspected that a lot of the info I was getting about China from family was outdated, and the library guide book I checked out is at least as old as your report. I think I’m just going to have buy a more recent one.

kja

For China, I will make a very strong recommendation: get a guidebook that has, as one of its editors, Peter Neville-Hadley. He truly is an expert -- former lead editor for the Frommer's China guidebooks and occasional poster here under the name temppeternh. Even if you have to get a somewhat dated guidebook, his information is irreplaceable, and the detail of his recommendations for food can't be beat. I can't imagine going to China, even today, without a hard copy guidebook with maps and phrases in English AND Chinese characters AND pinyin, etc. And if you look for Peter's recent posts here on Fodor's, you'll find links to a newer book he's been writing.

I'm not sure what the best way to buy train tickets is now, but when I was there, it was best (meaning most reliable and far less expensive) to book in person once in the departure city -- which certainly complicated things. That is no longer necessary.

MmePerdu

When last I used it this was the site for subscribing to Peter N-H's own forum:

LISTSERV 16.0 - Subscribe or Unsubscribe to the ORIENTAL-LIST List

I had lots of very specific questions answered, invaluable.

khunwilko

For Thailand, this interactive weather map I'll give you by far the bset idea of the what, where, when's of the weather there
https://www.travelfish.org/weather_fish.php

Kavey

On the first trip, we saw little koyo leaf colour, but appreciated the sunny weather without oppressive heat.
On the second trip, we did see some lovely leaf colour but it wasn't full on coverage, rather that individual trees were vivid and stunning, and being admired by locals and visitors alike, but not the expansive views of a hillside of red, orange, yellow that one envisages. But to be fair, we spent a good part of this trip down in Kyushu, and autumn would hit somewhat later there than further north in Japan.

mrwunrfl

Peter N-H is a great resource for China, so take the advice of MmePerdu if you are interested in China. He used to post here often, maybe 10 years ago, and was a star fodorite, imo.

November is a great time to go to Japan from Tokyo and Kanazawa south, avoiding the Alps from mid-month and later. Expect peak fall colors in Kyoto around the 18th. Fine weather. Jacket and a t-shirt worked for me (jacket for outside in comfortable cool, t-shirt for inside which was overheated sometimes).

November then May then April, in that order for me. Rainy season starts in early June and goes until mid-July and then you know what happens next.

I've always gotten visas after booking the air ticket - it is a matter of necessity for the application. There was no reason to believe that one would be denied to me, so it is not much of a gamble. But, what would you lose? Maybe $400 cancellation fee but you have the rest of it as a credit with the airline. There is risk in everything in life and this is a tiny one.

As far as the visa cost goes, that is up to you. I paid the visa fee to go to Beijing for a few days, added on to my first trip to Japan. You pay the price of admission and go. You want it to be free, but it is not and it probably never will be. Or, you don't go but don't whine about it years from now when you slap yourself on the forehead and say "I coulda visited the Great Wall of China but decided to save $140, thinking that visa fee was unfair".

When I went, I got a great discount on my airline ticket and bargains elsewhere on that trip and many others. So, that one time I had to give back some of that savings, but am still way ahead overall.

If it is a toss-up between China and another country with no visa fee then it makes sense to wonder if it is worth it to pay the visa fee. But, if you decide to go to China, do you really think that you will say that it was not worth it? I don't think you can. Not, at least, until you go to that other country.

mrwunrfl

I did have a scarf and stocking cap and wore a couple of shirts under my jacket when I visited the Great Wall in the last days of November. It was colder in Beijing than in Japan. Your thought of November gray doesn't apply to Japan, at least for the southern half of the country, ime. It was sunny on the San-yo side.

marvelousmouse

Really a great way to look at it. The Visa fee was giving me a pause, but you’re right, it’s the price of admission. I’ve never regretted paying to go somewhere. Thanks, everyone! Especially for the author rec. Much appreciated. I think I’ve got a lot of reading ahead of me. You’ve definitely encouraged me to go to China but I want to return to Japan even more now!