I'd throw in Shaoxing for consideration.

It's not much visited by foreign tourists and it's supposedly the birthplace of the legendary first dynasty of China (app. 4000 years ago), the Xia. The Xia is legendary because there are no written records from that dynasty, although its existence is written about in later Chinese historical records and there is some archeological evidence. In a way, it's like visiting the cradle of Chinese civilization. There is a very pretentious monument to Yu the Great, legendary founder of the Xia dynasty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xia_Dynasty

http://history.cultural-china.com/en/46History569.html


This monument is interesting but there are a couple of other places of far greater interest. Both of these are out of town.

One is an actual excavated tomb dating back about 2500 years ago. Sorry, I forget the name of this tomb. I was the only person there and had to walk quite a bit on country roads to get to it. But it was a wonderful adventure on a beautiful day and I loved walking by the neat tea plantations.

Across the main road to the tomb and up it a bit is Lan Ting, a very old Chinese garden.

http://www.travelchinaguide.com/attr...d_pavilion.htm


Back in town there is also the calligraphy museum. Since calligraphy is also an art form, you may want to think of this as a special "art" museum. Calligraphy is a major art form in China. Again, there were few visitors the day I went.

Also, back in town is quite a large area dedicated to Lu Xun, China's greatest modern writer (20th century). I didn't go inside the many paid attractions but the huge fountain area in the plaza is a great delight.


Lastly, one can also boat around Shaoxing, although I didn't do that. Not enough time.

This would be a very nice one day visit. I would suggest - if you can afford it - to arrange a driver from Shanghai and have the driver take you around to the attractions you want to see in Shaoxing. You can also do this for Suzhou. make arrangments first as to what you want to see and have the driver figure out the logistics of getting to those sites. It's really the most painless way to visit some of these cities.

Hangzhou requires more than a day. At least one overnight is needed.

Oh, one last thought: Shaoxing is also synonymous with wine. It's been said that you can't really do an authentic Chinese dish without Shaoxing wine, but I also dined in the dining room in the Shaoxing Hotel and found their drinking "wine" to be very potent and fragrant. The food was one of the best meals I had in China - ever.

Except for the Yu monument, Shaoxing was an unpretentious and thoroughly real China experience for me.

Gpanda, 2 weeks is too long in Shanghai. I would do 4 or 5 nights in Beijing, then fly to Xian for 2 nights then fly to Shanghai visit Hangzhou for a night, do a day visit to Suzhou and another day visit to Xitang. There's not much to see in Shanghai, really only shopping so 2 full days there is imo enough. I would fly into Beijing and fly out of Shanghai. Don't be too hasty in booking flights we paid 720 US dollars flying into Beijing & out of Shanghai through Expedia.com but we went from London. The prices varied from this price to 1200 US dollars I just kept checking daily until the price came down.

Gpanda, how is the "mulling over options" phase going? Do you think that you'll develop an itinerary based on Shanghai and the water towns, etc., or are you tempted to fly farther afield for part of the two weeks?

shanghai is a city....they put animals in the zoo!!

Thanks for the input. We are trying to decide whether we will fly to Beijing for a portion of the trip. We have seven days booked at the Royal Meridien in Shanghai using points and cash, but even these are flexible. We do have seven months to decide. Bob is confusing thin gs by interjecting details about the May 2010 Bali trip. Apparently he needs everything worked out more than a year in advance.

Gpanda -- If you are not planning on going back to China soon, and with 2 weeks, would you consider Shanghai - Beijing - Xian, and back to Shanghai?

Yes, Shanghainese that is an outside possibility. In the next month or so, we will make some decisions. I will report back. Thanks for the help.

Hello,

We are traveling to China in a few weeks. After Shanghai, we will go to Hangzhou for 2 nights. Then it's onto Huangshan, aka Yellow Mountain, for one night. Finally, we will visit Xidi and Hongcun for a night. Both the mountain and the villages are UNESCO World Heritage sites. We were looking for rural places to balance the big cities of Beijing, Xian and Shanghai.... It's just a thought for you to take into consideration.

I hope Panda will not mind me barging in again to ask a somewhat related question.

I plan to have about 5 days in Shanghai next winter and will also look into a side trip to Hangzhou.

But while in Shanghai, is there no way to get in touch with an English-speaking graduate student, perhaps a history or architecture student, or even an English-language student, who would be interested in making some extra cash by accompanying a few tourists around for a day? I would not want to go the usual "guide" route, as I find that this often results in having a lot of dates and names thrown at me..

Is there an expat forum in Shanghai?

While you wait for an answer on an English-speakers expat forum -- surely there must be one -- you might consider whether colleges/universities abroad programs might offer an avenue of inquiry. Last summer, for example, the Pandas' local university opened a Shanghai office. See a description here with more links:
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~hcf/chinaoffice.html
I wonder if anyone in that office could direct you to the services you seek. Just a thought.

Marya: Excellent. I will pursue.

Here is a recommendation for a book with walking tours in Shanghai; looks good, if expensive:


http://tinyurl.com/cwpq7s

The walking tour book does like very inviting. If I go to Shanghai next year -- 50/50 chance now -- I'll invest in it.

By the way, I found the following in our town library. The title was too good to resist -- SO MANY ENEMIES, SO LITTLE TIME: AN AMERICAN WOMAN IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES, by Elinor Burkett. Published five years ago, it is about her travels in "Reagan's old Evil Empire and...Bush's new Axis of Evil." Adventure sites include Afghanistan and other -stans, Iran, Mongolia, China and Vietnam. I'll report back if delights.

Burkett opens with an amusing Russian proverb that captures how many of us approach travel:
The church is close, but the road is icy.
The bar is far, but I will walk carefully.
Indeed.

I read that Burkett book, twice! She has some guts, to be sure! Let me know if you like it...I love exchanging ideas about travel books!

Oh, I did read a novel about Shanghai recently, THE PAINTER FROM SHANGHAI by Jennifer Epstein. Good, not great. Someone probably mentioned it already on another thread about boofs.

Yes, indeed, a good but not great book. Still it was very gratifying to read it and learn something about the painter Pan Yuliang. If you read it in conjunction with viewing the film, A SOUL HAUNTED BY PAINTING, you have an even better sense of the artist and her challenging life. The film, if you haven't seen it, was directed by a Chinese woman (Huang Shuqin) and stars Gong Li.

Shanghai was THE highlight of our trip to China. I too would strongly recommend Suzhou as a side trip.
Not too far from Suzhou is Wuxi, which we also very much enjoyed.....sometimes known as Little Shanghai, this little town gave us a real feeling of China. We loved it !

I went to my college alumni website and found a couple of people living in Shanghai. (Maybe I will have better luck with them than I did with the two graduates living in Vietnam, who never responded to my e-mails about meeting!!)

Marya: I have some good Africa book recommendations, too.

With apologies to all others for the brief diversion --

I would like to get those Africa book recommendations, ekscrunchy. What is the best way? A new post on the Africa board?

By the way, speaking of books set in Africa, Peter Godwin's WHEN A CROCODILE EATS THE SUN is one of the most moving books that I read last year. Perhaps you know it.

LeighTravelClub -- so nice to hear you enjoyed Wuxi, in fact I like it better than Suzhou, the food is amazing there.

Marya; Yes, the Godwin book is tremendous. Essential on the Ekscrunchy syllabus. His earlier book, Mukiwa, describes more about his childhood. Excellent as well. I guess we should start a new thread on Africa, but I will leave you with two more and a vague idea:

EAST ALONG THE EQUATOR by Helen Winternitz. River travels in Zaire

http://www.amazon.com/East-Along-Equ.../dp/0871131625


DON'T LET'S GO TO THE DOGS TONIGHT by Alexandra Fuller

http://www.alexandrafuller.org/books.html



There is a also great novel about an Indian family in East Africa. The children have African playmates and the book weaves in daily life with unsettling events taking place in the country. I wish I could remember more; I suspect it was by an Indian author.. I have to try to find the name..


Moving back to Asia for a minute, here is a novel I liked a lot about India:

THE SPACE BETWEEN US by Thrity Umrigar


Should we start a travel book thread? Where?

Where is Panda? I have not "seen' him for a few days? Perhaps immersed in my COMPLETED (well, up to the departure airport) TRIP REPORT??

I hope he is ok!!