I want to send out a huge thanks to all those who have provided me with some great advice over the last couple of months. We are travelling to China this September and have finally decided on an itinerary for our 17 days. It is packed but we are also going in with the attitude that something(s) will change due to whatever reason and we will take it in stride.

Sept 10 - 11 - Beijing
Sept 12 - Great Wall / Overnight train to Datong
Sept 13 - Datong - caves and hanging temple / Overnight train to Taiyuan
Sept 14 - Taiyuan - Chengdu flight / Chengdu - Lijiang flight
Sept 15 - 16 - Lijiang
Sept 17 - 18 - Shaxi
Sept 19 - Dali / Kunming
Sept 20 - Kunming - Guilin flight / Overnight at Rice Terraces
Sept 21 - 23 - Yangshuo
Sept 24 - Yangshuo / Guilin to Hong Kong flight
Sept 25 - Hong Kong
Sept 26 - Hong Kong
Sept 27 - Depart

Besides thoughts on the itinerary I am also looking for places to stay (budget), great places to eat, sites etc in any of these places that would be recommended. ALSO I have heard that it is difficult to get a train ticket between Datong and Taiyuan. Does that include all seats or just the sleeper berths? I am thinking maybe we could get the CTS agent in Datong to get the train tickets before we even leave Canada since our stay in Beijing is so short, any thoughts on this? Is the train between Beijing and Datong as hard to get (soft sleeper)?

Thanks again!

I feel a little breathless... One word of caution - you really want to avoid back-to-back night trains - no way to get cleaned up. Also sorry to see you're just using Chengdu as a transit point.

lol, it is ambitious, I agree the 14th is crazy however we really want to get down to Yunnan province as soon as we can. There are a quite a few hours between the 2 flights (one in the morning the other in the evening) so hopefully that will allow for any flight delays that we may run into. I have gone back and forth on Chengdu however it came down to time. I feel it is a place that would take at least 4 or 5 days to do it justice since there is so much to see there. Since we only have 17 days we decided to move along. It is on the list of places to visit during our next trip to China, whenever that may be.

Datong to Taiyuan is only 5.5 hours by the faster, and more frequent day trains with A/C. Or I'm sure very frequent buses. It's not a trip for overnight train; especially since there's only one slow train with no A/C on for the overnight trip, train 2463.

Have you considered that from the time you check out of your hotel in Beijing the morning of the 12th until you check into your hotel in Lijiang the evening of the 14th you are essentially homeless? With your luggage and without bathrooms (other than often dubious toilets). I've done it, and even with left luggage facilities it's no fun.

Take rkkwan's advice and take the day train. Depending on when it leaves, if you get a really early start you might be able to do it on the 13th along with the sightseeing, but you're really trying to cram too much in.

Well now you got me thinking. The reason for the night train to Taiyuan is more about timing then anything. It gets in early and gives enough time to catch the morning Taiyuan to Chengdu flight. The times for the day trains I have found have 17:58 as the latest departure. I didn't think we would be back in time from the caves and temple to catch it. Do the buses leave later? Any ideas when the last bus departure would be for Taiyuan?

Another option would be to take the overnight train back to Beijing from Datong and then fly straight to Lijiang (07:55-11:30). The flight is quite a bit more expensive (right now on C trip it is 2500 rmb, anyone know how much this may go down, if at all?) but I am thinking it may be worth it. Then we would be in Lijiang on the 14th.

The caves and hanging monastery don't need a full day. Even including lunch near the monastery I was back in Datong mid-afternoon at the latest and I didn't start very early. Although you may spend longer at the caves than I did (I thought they were outshone by Dunhuang) you should have no trouble at all catching the 17:58, or even something earlier.

Taking the night train back to Beijing doesn't help, you're still talking back-to-back night trains.

You can probably see both the caves and hanging monastery in time to catch a train at 17:58, but you might want to consider an early departure: When I was in Datong just over a month ago, many roads were undergoing construction, so it took longer to get anywhere than usual.

In Datong, I was pleased with the Yungang Internation Hotel and I had a great hotpot meal at Mujia Zhai.

thursdaysd did you hire a driver for the caves and monastery or did you go through CTS? If you hired a driver do you remember how much it was? I thought it would have been an all day trip to see both but If we could get out of Datong that evening on just a regular bus or train that would work well. Then we would spend the night in Taiyuan and catch the next day flights.

I had a prearranged car, driver and guide. Since I was traveling over the National Day holiday I had Passport Travel (who I was using for the Trans-Mongolian) book the beginning of the China leg. They subcontracted me to CITS and I paid one bill for all their arrangements so I can't break out this separately. I came in on the train from Ulaan Baator and spent two nights. Besides the caves and the monastery I wanted to see the nine dragon screen, which I enjoyed, and I also saw several decidedly (coal) dusty temples on my own.

Well after lots of debating and useful advise we have decided to simplify our itinerary.

We are skipping Yunnan and staying in Chengdu from the 14 - 18 and then will move along to the Guilin, Longsheng, Yangshuo area staying between the 19 - 24.

In Chengdu we plan on taking a trip out to Le Shan and Emei Shan, possibly going to the panda research centre, Dufu cottage museum, and the irrigation project. In the Guilin area we are going to check out the rice terraces at Dazhai while doing the walk from Ping'an, taking the Yangdi-Xing Ping cruise, Fuli, Moon Hill, etc.

First of all if anyone has any neat little villages, restaurants, sites, they would recommend in either the Chengdu or Guilin area I enjoy referrals.

Second has anyone done the walk between Ping'an and Dazhai? I read it is 4 hours, what kind of pace would it be in that time frame, (leisure, fast paced, etc.)?

Third has anyone taken the ferry from Guangzhou to Hong Kong? Is it fairly easy to get tickets? How does it work going through the crossing to Hong Kong?

Thanks!

There is no ferry service between Guangzhou center and Hong Kong. There are frequent buses and trains. But why are you even in Guangzhou to start with? And whereabout in Guangzhou will be departing for HK from.

We found a cheap flight to Guangzhou from Guilin and figured we would save the cost of an extra night in Hong Kong. This way we will get into Hong Kong first thing Saturday (25th) morning. As far as where we would be departing from it would depend on what mode of transportation we would take to Hong Kong. We would be trying to stay as close to where we are departing from in the morning.

From what I have read Guangzhou is connected to Hong Kong by train, coach, and ferry. For the ferry ports we would either go to Xintang (1/2 hour from Guangzhou), Lianhuashan, or Nanhai which ever works out the best (ie closer, availability, etc).

None of the ferry options make much sense. Waste of time and more expensive then the train or coach options. But if you're only planning to save some money, you should fly from Guilin to Shenzhen (SXZ), not Guangzhou. Closer and easier to get to Hong Kong than from Guangzhou.

Taking the ferry would be for the experience. Unfortunatly the information regarding it's use is all over the place from there are no ferries running anymore to there are multiple ferries heading out from different ports including Lianhuashan which I have concluded is about an hour from the Guangzhou airport.

The information is all over the place, but all of them are somewhat correct. Guangzhou, the municipality, covers a huge area, including Nansha and Lianhuashan. Nansha-HK ferry is fairly frequent and quick, but the port is still quite a bit south of Guangzhou.

There used to be ferry service from two ports that are closer to downtown Guangzhou, but operations have ceased long ago.

Taking a ferry to HK has its advantages - comfortable and short immigration lines (on both the Chinese and HK sides). But they still make no sense if you're coming from either Guangzhou Airport or downtown Guangzhou.

Thanks for the insight rkkwan. I agree it is quite a hike just to take the ferry. I guess we will have to decide when we get there whether it is worth it to us or not. We get in to Guangzhou airport at 19:25 so we would have time to get over to Lianhuashan area. Otherwise we will take the train. Is there a customs station right at the Train Station? Also are their any recommendations for things to do/places to eat/places to stay with just one night in Guangzhou (nearby the east train station)?

If you take the Guangzhou East - Kowloon intercity train (so-called "through train"), you will clear Chinese immigration at Guangzhou East, and Hong Kong immigration in Hung Hom (in HK).

http://www.it3.mtr.com.hk/b2c/frmIndex.asp?strLang=Eng

If you take the more frequent and cheaper CRH from either Guangzhou or Guangzhou East to Shenzhen, then you will clear Chinese immigration right on the border in Shenzhen, then walk across the bridge to the HK side and clear HK immigration there. Then you'll take a local commuter train from Lowu (in HK) to the city.

Guangzhou is famous for its good food, but I don't have specific recommendations near either of the train stations.

Thanks for the info!