ToniL

We are an energetic group of three who wish we had more time in China. Is this itinerary possible? Can you fly from Xian to Huangshan? The flight search page that I'm using gives a price, but doesn't list flights. Thanks!!

April 16 - 18 Beijing
19 hire a taxi or driver – stop at Simitai then on to Chengde
20 overnight train Chengde to Datong 1711/1714/1716 soft sleeper
21 hire taxi on pick up from train, drive to Yungang Grottoes & Hanging Temple, Overnight train to Pingyao
22 walking in Pingyao Overnight train to Xian 2535
23 in Xian
24 a.m. in Xian, afternoon flight to Huangshan area (is there one??)
25 driver - visit to villages (Yixian area), drop at Huangshan for ascent, overnight on mountain
26 travel to Hangzhou late afternoon
27 Hangzhou
28 train to Suzhou
29 afternoon train or bus to Shanghai

rkkwan

It's possible, but I think you'll not enjoy it. Here are the reasons why:

- You're spending many nights on sleeper trains. But all the trains you're taking - from Chengde to Datong, from Datong to Pingyao, and from Pingyao to Xi'an - are slow local trains that make a lot of stops. My experience is that I can sleep pretty well when the train iss moving, but I wake up everytime it comes to a stop. And since those three trips are in a row, I wonder if you can get enough rest. Also, from what I'm seeing, even the softsleeper on those trains do not have A/C. Big problem in the summer.

- Schedule too tight. For example, you arrive Datong at around 10am. Yunguan grottos are close to the city, but the Hanging Temple is 80km away.

- I don't think there's a direct flight from Xi'an to Huangshan. Probably have to change plane in Shanghai. Also keep in mind that the Huangshan Airport is 70km from the mountain.

- Best way to go from Hangzhou to Suzhou is by coach. The train makes a big loop over to Shanghai. But I think you should skip either one of those two and give yourself more time in either.

glorialf

Personally, this sounds like the trip from hell to me. It's not a question of whether or not you are energetic as much as whether you will be seeing anything, meeting anyone.Pick a few places and spend a couple of days in each. Get to know the place. Traveling is not just about seeing a "site" but it's experiencing a city, a people, a culture.

Also, the overnight trains in China are not the most comfortable. One in a trip is ok but I would not do more.

Bchen

My only concern is that you specified Soft sleeper. In China, you can not buy a soft sleeper in advance unless you are boarding in the originating city of the train. So if the train goes from Beijing to Xi'an, but you aren't getting on until Datong, you can only buy a hard seat ticket in advance. Then, once you board the train, you go to the conductor to see if there are any available. Many times you can get one, but it really is a crap shoot... if you can't get a sleeper, the train has already left the station and you are out of luck...can't disembark.
Otherwise, I think doing nights on the train is a great idea...saves time and money.

ToniL

Thanks for the information on trains. We thought about going on an overnight train from Beijing to Pingyao (skipping the trip to Datong). Then we could go from Xian to Luoyang to see the caves there. Any ideas on how to get from Luoyang to Huangshan?

rkkwan

After being down for most of the day, the website I use to search for Chinese flights is back up.

There aren't that many flights into Huangshan's airport. There are:

2 weekly from Shenzhen
2 weekly from Shantao
1 daily from Shanghai Hongqiao
4 weekly from Beijing
4 weekly from Quanzhou
2 daily from Hefei
~3 daily from Guangzhou

Louyang has an airport, but also with infrequennt flights. It does have one regional jet daily to Beijing, one to Shanghai Hongqiao, a few weekly to Shenzhen/Guangzhou/Kunming. Same day Louyang-Shanghai-Huangshan connection is possible.

Or just go to Huangshan from Hangzhou. Forget using the plane to the Huangshan airport.

jimdrew

Would you mind sharing what web site(s) you use for finding flights in China? I'm teaching in Shijiazhuang and would like to hit Kunming before all is said and done. It would be nice to eliminate at least one leg of the 42 hour train ride. Thanks!

rkkwan

jimdrew - I use this one for flight and train schedules. While they're supposed to have a English page, it doesn't display properly or isn't updated. I only use their simplied Chinese site: www.oklx.com

ToniL

rkkwan, thanks so much for your help. The three of us have flights into Beijing and out of Shanghai. Our wish list is to see Xian, gardens, a mountain with temples & a town that has not been modernized. We were thinking about Chengde because we all wish we could see the real Potala Palace, but don't think that will likely happen! If you can think of another itinerary that would capture some of those kinds of places I'd be happy to hear it. We though about Wutaishan, but it sounds like it is hard to get to.

rkkwan

ToniL - Glad to see your reply. In fact, I was about to post to ask just what you're interested to see.

Anyways, given that you have limited time, I think you should skip Huangshan and Hangzhou for this trip. While I've never been there, I know Wutaishan and many of the sites in Shanxi Province are still pretty rustic and haven't been run over by tourists yet. Spend more time there.

Fly directly from Xi'an to Shanghai. And then go to Suzhou from there.

And Bchen is correct that if you get on a train enroute, you may not get a softsleeper, may not even get even a hardsleeper. So beware of that.

ToniL

Wow, that was quick! Here is my new plan:
Day 1 -3 in Beijing
Day 4 hire a taxi to Simitai then Chengde (is this possible? expensive?)
Day 5 in Chengde, return to Beijing as late as possible
Day 6 a.m. train to Datong, p.m. hanging monastery
Day 7 Yungang caves, minibus to Taihuai
Day 8 Wutaishan
Day 9 Wutaishan then travel to Pingyao
Day 10 day in Pingyao, overnight tain to Xian
Day 11 Xian
Day 12 fly to Shanghai, travel to Suzhou
Day 13 - 14 Suzhou & area, back to Shanghai in evening
Day 15 & 16 in Shanghai

If this is a workable itinerary, will we be able to get drivers, minibuses to get us to and from Wutaishan?

rkkwan

ToniL - I'm afraid I don't have any more info as neither I nor my family has toured Shanxi. In fact, my dad is extremely eager to go, but there aren't even many Hong Kong tour groups to Shanxi.

That's the bad news. Good news is that you won't find too many tourists.

And my hunch is that you shouldn't have trouble hiring a car/minivan to drive you places in Shanxi. Only question is how much they want. Same thing with Beijing-Simatai-Chengde.

rkkwan

ToniL - I looked at some possible tour itineraries on Shanxi Province. This may work...

Day 6: Train Beijing to Datong. It's a 6+ hours journey.
Day 7: Yunguan Grotto, Datong city tour (including Huayan Temple)
Day 8: Car to Hanging Temple, continue to Wutaishan
Day 9: Whole day Wutaishan
Day 10: Half day Wutaishan, then travel to Pingyao
Day 11: Pingyao, overnight train to Xian (and hope you can get a sleeper!)

This is one more day than you propose. Perhaps cut a day in Shanghai at the end.

And about the train from Pingyao to Xi'an. Train 2535 originates in Taiyuen, just 100km from Pingyao, and which you'll have passed going to Pingyao. See if you can secure a softsleeper by paying for the whole Taiyuen-Xi'an trip (difference maybe a few US$), and only get on at Pingyao. Or have your driver take you back to Taiyuen to catch that train at 17:53.

rkkwan

Oh, I found a way you may cut a day in travel.

From Beijing to Datong, there's a A/C slow sleeper 2141/2144. It originates in Tianjin, not far from Beijing, and I think you may be able to get softsleepers from Beijing. Leaves Beijing South at 11pm and drops you off at Datong about 5:30 in the morning. Inquire about that first thing after you arrive in Beijing.

A fast train leaves Chengde for Beijing at 14:40 and get to Beijing at 18:38. But that means you don't have too much time in Chengde...

But maybe you can put that extra day in Chengde, and still cut the day in Shanghai at the end.

paul39

I'm considering a trip very similar to the one which towards the end of this exchange (03/18/2005, 11:03 pm) rkkwan kindly advised ToniL and his friends to try, including the 23.00 overnight train from Beijing to Datong. The only difference is that I may have one day less for it, due to having to meet my girlfriend in Beijing after having done this trip, and seen Xian, on a fixed day.

Could either rkkwan, or anyone else now reading this who knows about the area, tell me how long the trip from Wutaishan to Pingyao would take. What I'm trying to work out is whether I could go to Wutaishan and have a worthwhile time there if I only stayed one night, and the following day did my looking and the went on to Pingyao for the night - or if I should instead leave out some part of the Datong/Hanging Temple experience to get to Wutaishan earlier on what is Day 8 of rkkwan"s final suggested itinerary. All advice will be gratefully received!

rkkwan

paul39 - My parents just finished a trip to Shanxi, and I'll have their full video tapes (hours of it) later this week for editing and burning onto DVD. If you're not in a hurry to finalize plans, I will post a 2nd hand report on this forum in a little bit, after I go through the tapes.

But in general, Shanxi (especially Wutaishan) requires more than just 2 nights to really appreciate the sites. I'm afraid you're in way too much of a rush. Maybe you can just do the grotto/hanging temple around Datong, and then go to Pingyao. Save Wutaishan for another trip.

paul39

Dear rkkwan - Many thanks for your swift reply, and apologies for my slow response. Following your advice, I've freed an extra day for Wutaishan by taking out the day in Pingyao. In other words, my journey from Beijing to Xian looks just like the one you suggested to ToniL on 03/08/05, except that after my second night at Wutaishan and the morning there, I'm planning to go to Pingyao to take the night train to Xian, instead of staying in the town for a day. Or do you think, given that I won't be staying in Pingyao anyway, I'd be better off going from Wutaishan to Taiyuen, which would make a shorter journey from Wutaishan and increase my chances of getting a sleeper?

Thanks, too for your offer of a DVD. It'll be too late to affect my plans, but if you're making some anyway and can spare one, I'd love to watch it.

You're altogether very kind indeed giving us intending travellers your time and advice.

rkkwan

paul -

Well, actually I wasn't really offering the DVD itself to you, unless you can understand Cantonese.

Anyways, my mom is back, and I told her about your dilemna. My parents spent 6 full days in Shanxi, and her first response is that she would not cut anything, and in fact would like more time.

But if one only had 2-3 days in the Province, she would suggest concentrating in sites around Datong. Skip Pingyao. And you really don't have time for Wutaishan.

Datong has enough world-class attractions to fill 2-3 days.