NancyLA

Hello!

Based on earlier comments from this forum I contacted Yatrik, and in their first pass they came up with the following itinerary for our 3-week trip. I had asked for 2 weeks in the north and 1 week in the south. I'm concerned that it is a bit too rushed, but am having a really tough time figuring out where we should plan to stay longer, and what I can miss without too many regrets. I've also listed the hotels that we've preliminarily selected. They proposed a few hotels in each city, but unfortunately some of the really spectacular ones are too expensive for us! We'd really appreciate any insights you can share.

Day 1: arrive to Delhi; stay at Imperial
Day 2: visit Delhi
Day 3: Fly to Varanasi in am: Stay at Taj Gateway
Day 4: Visit Varanasi
Day 5: Fly to Khajuraho in am; Stay at Taj Chandela
Day 6: Drive to Jhansi (4 hours) in afternoon, enroute visit Orcha; pick up train (Shatabadi express) to Agra; stay at Grand Imperial or ITC Mughal
Day 7: visit Agra, sunset at Taj, etc.
Day 8: early morning visit to Taj; drive to Jaipur (6 hours); stay at Oberoi Trident, or Alsisar Haveli
Day 9: visit Jaipur
Day 10: Drive to Jodhpur (6-7 hours); stay at Ratan Vilas or Taj Hari Mahal
Day 11: Vist Jodphur
Day 12: Drive to Udaipur (6 hours) stay at Fateh Gargh
Day 13: Visit Udaipur
Day 14: Fly to Mumbai and onto Cochin; stay at Brunton Boat Yard
Day 15: Visit Cochin
Day 16: Drive to Periyar (6 hours): stay at Spice Village
Day 17: Morning activities; then drive to Kumarokom (3 hours); stay at Kumarakom Lake Resort
Day 18: Cruise backwaters Kumarakom
Day 19:Fly to Mumbai; stay at Taj Mahal Hotel
Day 20: Visti Mumbai
Day 21: Leave for home

Thanks so much.

Tere

I have only been to Goa and Kerala and i'm planning a trip to Rajasthan but it seems to me you want to see all of India in 3 weeks!!!
Imo it's too much for 3 weeks.

Craig

On first glance, this is way too much but different people have different travel styles. I realize you want to "do" all of India in just one three-week trip but IMO that is just not possible. My wife and I are the same age as you (mid-50's) and I am certain that this itinerary would kill us. We have been to India twice. The first time we used an agency that customized a tour for us with driver, guides etc. The second time we did it on our own, hiring drivers, guides as needed. Each trip was 2 weeks. I feel that in order to really enjoy India, you need to spend more than one or two nights at each location. On your proposed itinerary you will have no time for yourselves because you will be either flying, driving or packing/unpacking for your next destination. I don't know if you are shoppers but you won't have the time to get out and shop on your own. Most of your meals will likely be at your hotel because you'll be getting in so late that you won't want to go out.

I suggest you eliminate southern India altogether and then pick 5 or 6 places that really appeal to you. For a first trip, 3 or 4 nights Delhi, 2 nights Agra, 3 nights Jaipur, 3 or 4 nights Udaipur, and 3 nights Varanasi would provide a good introduction. Then add one or two destinations like Jodhpur or perhaps 2 or 3 nights at Ranthambore park.

No matter what, YOU should determine your itinerary, not the agency. Be very specific - you will be rewarded for your efforts.

I hope this helps.

Marija

Nancy, the beginning of our yatrik- arranged trip was similar to yours:
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...o-to-india.cfm
It was fast paced but we were able to take non-stop flights between cities which saved a lot of commuting time. You're driving so you'll have even less time at the destinations.
Here are some suggestions based on our experience:
--in Varanasi stay at a hotel at the river
--save your splurge hotel for Agra (instead of the Imperial in Delhi)
--skip Khajuraho and/or Jodhpur and add someplace "rural" on the way to Udaipur and add another day in Udaipur

I'm sure you'll have a memorable trip!

NancyLA

Thanks for these responses.

Yes, these mirror my thoughts closely. We're used to traveling in a more leisurely fashion with time in each locale to explore the city and the environs. I was afraid we were being too ambitious, but it's really the long driving times that make me the most nervous, 6+ hours nearly every other day during the middle part of the itinearary sounds pretty awful to me. On the other hand, I've read other posts suggesting minimal time in Delhi and Agra because they aren't particularly great cities. Thoughts for a first-time visitor to India?
Thanks again!

Craig

Delhi has some interesting sights that are worth a couple of days - it does not have as much character compared to the rest of India but there is history here that will enrich your India experience. You have still not said whether you are a shopper and it would help to know - Delhi is a great place for one-stop shopping but it takes time. There are other shopping opportunities outside of Delhi but no sense talking about them unless you are interested.

Agra requires 2 nights but many do it in one. It is not a pretty city but to do the major sites properly, you need a full day - at a minimum you need to see the Taj and Agra Fort. "Baby Taj" and Fatephur Sikri (which you can do on the drive to Jaipur) are also interesting. How you work these into your itinerary is up to you. The most important thing to me was to see the Taj without the crowds, which means being there at sunrise - you only need one night to do that. As Marija says, a splurge in Agra (do two nights) would be preferable over a splurge in Delhi.

You will tire of the driving after 3 weeks - try to minimize it if you can.

NancyLA

Thanks Craig - and the answer to your question is a resounding yes. We love markets, food, crafts, anything. It's my favorite place for people watching. And we are collectors, mostly of folk art and crafts. Much less interested in inexpensive designer label shopping. For this trip I'm particularly interested in textiles.

Craig

Nancy, you just need to ratchet it down a notch. India has everything you are looking for. Take a look at some of the places I suggested, see what you like and post here with what you think might work. There are several very experienced India travelers on this forum that will chime in when you come back with you next itinerary thoughts. I have given you a framework but you need to provide specifics on what you would like to do. We'll do all we can to help.

vp_singh

a. Two nights atleast in Delhi are a must, on your arrival. Whoever said Delhi is an awful place? You have your driver, a guide to take you around & shield you from touts or beggars. There is a whole lot of sightseeing in Delhi, which cannot be done in a day. Delhi is being spruced up, like never before, on account of the Commonwealth Games (October), and if you happen to arrive later this year, there will be no traffic snarls either and buildings looking all anew!
b. You are simply driving around too much. Look at that long road from Jaipur to Jodhpur – 212 miles or between Jodhpur >> Udaipur (172miles)! Why do you need to do that when you have great destinations to break your journey?
c. You need to take a look at one of those fabulous fort-palaces. As you say you like to watch people than the rural Rajasthan comes alive, where you see no stereo-types but real people - the peasant in his white turban tending to his fields; the pink turbaned refined Brahmin tending to his devotions; the marooned coloured Marwari, the finest business mind in India; the old retainers of the erstwhile feudatory chiefs, bowing courteously, with folded hands, making you feel at home.
d. It is not advisable to keep both Varanasi + Khajuraho & South India in one single trip. It is better to retain north India with Rajasthan. The weather conditions, coupled with some intense sightseeing, saps your energy.
e. You do not have a wildlife sanctuary on the tours, breaks the monotony of a tour in North India.
f. Also as collectors, you may wish to visit some wonderful stores in Jodhpur & perhaps, Jaisalmer, where I have seen (& picked up) some great artefacts up for sale. However, you need to be sure of what you are buying...the Marwari is a clever businessman!!!
Happy travels!

Cicerone

Here are my thoughts on your itin so far:

1. You are stopping in 12 places in 3 weeks. While doable, my travel math in that time would be that 9 places is optimal, perhaps a 10th if it is close or on the way between other places. I believe from your other posts that your trip is in the winter months. (If I am wrong, and your trip is anytime from April through end September of this or next year, then this itin is insane and needs to be cut about in half.) My travel mantra is <i>less is more</i>. So something has to go. With three weeks, you absolutely have time to include the south, and I would strongly urge you to do so, as it is completely different than the far more touristed “golden triangle” area of north India where you are also going. The food, geography, mix of religions and people are a nice contrast to the north. I actually prefer the south to the north.

2. Sorry, but I still don’t have any idea of your interests. This itin is a lot of time in cars seeing towns and religious sights and in some cases ruins of religious sights. Not sure if this fits your interests. There is time in Periyar, which I assume fits your interests. But what is it that you want to see and do? This looks a lot to me like a travel agent’s idea of a tour which a large group could take on a bus (with some flights for longer distances). Be sure to ask your agent to include those items which match your interests.

3. I assume from your screen name that you are coming from LA. As flights from LA to Delhi all seem to be connections arriving from Europe in the wee morning hours, it may be better to skip Delhi first, and continue on (bleary-eyed) to an early morning connecting flight to another city (like Varanasi, Udaipur, Jodhpur). While this takes some fortitude to do on top of an international flight, the reward could be a better allocation of time, and an easier introduction to India than Delhi might be. Or drive to Agra right from the airport assuming you arrive in early morning daylight (although this may be hardest of all, as you won’t be able to sleep in the car but will want to). It seems to me that it would make even more sense to fly from LA to Mumbai, overnight at the airport there and immediately head out. You may find this easier in terms of flight connections and again, the slower pace of either a smaller northern city or someplace in the south may be a better start to seeing India. There is a Continental/United code share fight from Newark which departs at 8:20 pm and arrives into Mumbai at about 10 pm (next day), which means you could easily overnight at an airport hotel, get a few hours sleep, and take a morning flight to Udaipur, Jodhpur, Jaipur or even Cochin the next day. If you go to Jodhpur or Udaipur, this would save you some of those long drives.

Jet Airways and Thai Airways has in past years, in the autumn/winter months, offered flights between Bangkok and Varanasi. This may work well for you if you can get a non-stop from LA to Bangkok. Starting or ending your trip in Varanasi may make this schedule work better for you, and would also be, IMO, a very good place to start or end a trip to India. Check to see if flights are available for your trip dates.

If you are not coming from LA, flying into Mumbai or continuing on immediately from Delhi to another place in India may still be attractive depending on your int’l flight schedule. Look and see what works. Don’t be tied to seeing Delhi first is all to keep in mind.

4. IMO it is unnecessary to include Mumbai. It is a huge city (19 million and counting) with lots of traffic and relatively few sights for its enormous size. From the airport to the Taj Mahal Hotel on a weekday will easily take you 2 hours and could take more. And then back again for your return flight. You can spend this precious time seeing many more interesting places in India.

5. One day in Jaipur, Udaipur and Jodhpur is simply silly. Cut one of those cities, or possibly two. At a minimum, consider a late evening train between Jaipur and Jodhpur which may give you more time in Jaipur. There is no way I personally would want to drive to Jaipur, Jodhpur and Udaipur in the space of 5 days. My goodness, all you will see is Indian roads from the backseat of a car!

6. I have not stayed at nor seen Fahet Garh, but can tell by looking at the photos on the website that it is quite a bit outside of town. For your one day in Udaipur, this would not be a great location for sightseeing, IMO. For merely relaxing pool or spa side, this may be no issue. It appears to be a good location for exploring the local countryside, hopefully on foot or by horseback. But bear in mind that you may not be able to do everything you want from this location, i.e. see the City Palace and museum, the old town <i>and</i> also see the countryside – all in just one day. You also will either have to trek into town for lunch and dinner or eat at the hotel, because there is unikely to be any other place in the area to have a meal.

7. I would add more time to Periyar, as I think you want more than 1 game drive as the “morning activities”. You probably want more time in the backwaters areas too. You can take this from the Mumbai days.

8. Delhi offers a lot of tourist sights (far more than Mumbai in a much more manageable setting) and I usually recommend that it be included in any first-time visit to India. Either go at the beginning, or at the end or in the middle. See what works for your schedule, e.g. for your flights from LA (as getting to India from LA can be a pain).

9. I am not at all a fan of Khajuraho, I know that others are. The temple carvings are actually not very fine in quality compared to those you can see elsewhere in India (try the National Museum in Delhi), but they get the most hype because of their erotic nature. The temples are also not a major or even minor religious centre like Varanasi, Rikisesh, Hardiwar, Badrinath, Karnataka and many other places. The temples appear to be unused and are more tourist attraction than working religious sites. (The fact that they are surrounded by untrampled green lawns is one giveaway.) I think that Orcha is interesting, but am not sure it is worth all the palaver of getting there. However, you could consider including Orcha as a stop on a train trip from Agra to Varanasi, and just skip Khajuraho. You can take the train from Agra to Jhansi in 2 hours, spend the day in the area, and then take the overnight train to Varanasi (or vice versa). Also, I think a temple complex like Madurai in the south is <i>far, far</i> more interesting than either Orcha or Khajurahao. Or Kornak sun temple in Orissa has erotic carvings but offers far more and is also of historical significance. You might want to consider adding either in place of Khajuraho/Orcha.

10. So in sum, you need to either add more time or cut out one or possibly two of Jaipur, Jodhpur or Udaipur. You should cut Mumbai. IMO you should also cut Khajuraho. You might want to look into reordering the itin and flying into Mumbai first.

thursdaysd

Of course, I agree with the other posters that this is too much to do in too little time, it left me breathless! I just want to add to Cicerone's suggestion of avoiding Delhi on the inbound flight - I came into India overland from Bhutan and was very glad to have had a gentler introduction.

If you are flying out of LA Emirates will fly you to Kochi (Cochin) in the south with one stop in Dubai. (From the east coast several airlines do something similar.) Since the south is also (IMHO) easier to handle than the north, this would also give you a better start, plus you could recover from the flight on a houseboat.

NancyLA

Wow! I can't thank you enough for these incredibly thoughtful replies. I'm so glad I posted the itinerary for your comments. I knew it was just too much too fast, but even working closely with guidebooks wasn't helpful enough in cutting it down to manageable size.

Just to reply to Cicerone's question: we are making this trip to begin to understand India as a nation while recognizing its tremendous diversity. We are interested in 'culture' more than religion. I am particularly interested in food, and want to include at least one cooking class (this is already imbedded in the itinerary but I didn't want to muddy the waters by listing all the planned activities.) We love markets and rural areas as much or more than cities. And yes, we're coming from Los Angeles so will have a super long trip to get there.

vp_singh

As art collectors, I thought you would be interested in visiting a place which has given to the world some of the most beautiful art pieces, done in stone. The place I am referring to is Baroli, some 3 hours drive from Shahpura Bagh & just about 4 miles from Bhainsrorgarh, another romantic destination, right on the banks of the river Chambal...the magic casements open on the river & beyond lies the guava groves, home to generations of parrots & pea fowl, to the songs of these birds you wake, every morning with bed tea served in the arched bays of the window!!
The Baroli temple is dedicated to lord Shiva & Parvati. The temples have been badly mutilated by the Islamic iconoclast but you still have some images which are of the finest quality. Outside the main sanctum sanctorum stands Shiva on the lotus flower, the serpant twined as garland. In his right hand he holds the “Dumroo” with which he inspires the Hindu Rajput warriors. Parvati stands besides with easy flowing limbs & ear rings made of conch shells. The style is typical of ancient Hindu art, found wanting in recent times.
On the outside wall of the main temple, is another image of Maha-deva going to war against the cosmic evil! His arms contain weapons of offence& surrounded by the ‘apsaras’ (sun-maidens). Around his neck, falling up to his knees is the roond-mala. A protruding tooth & feiry eyes, gives away his mood. Every cavity is tastefully decorated with flowers & toranas (floral garlands). Another image beset in the life & times of the 9th century is the depiction of the goddess of famine, a scene most macabre & disgustingly faithful of deathly attributes. The goddess herself is depicted as wrinkled, with sagging breasts, unlike the handsome figures found in all ancient Hindu temples. Below her lies a figure in the last stage of existence, and beasts of prey converging on the scene! While juxtaposed, by way of contrast, a male figure in all health & youth lies prostrate at her feet!!
In some old classics I found mention of the image of a hermit playing on a sitar and a couple of deer listening. I searched the whole place but found no trace of it. The old professor of history, whom I discussed the matter with, did mention the disappearance of these figures, with the passage of time. You will see on the northern face of the temple where in more recent years the image of the dancing Shiva has been removed & sold off in the international markets.

dogster

Ahhh, the esteemed v.p. is waxing lyrical...

You are getting great replies so I won't butt in, other to say that this statement <i>'We are interested in 'culture' more than religion.</i> needs a little bit of re-thinking.

Rather than write a screed pointing out why, I think it'll be much more fun to ponder on that yourself.

indianapearl

India is all about religion . . .

NancyLA

Ah yes - point well taken of course. I should have been more qualified in my answer (although I don't think it needs re-thinking). What I should have said is that 'all things being equal, given the option of seeing the 6th temple, mosque, synagogue or cathedral vs. a market or dance or just sitting in a lovely place and people watching, I'd probably pick the latter. However, I do realize that religion is, in many respects, the basis of culture in India and many other countries.

Sooo...thanks again and I'll post again when I have a more reasonable itinerary.

gpeters

Craig,

When you and your wife did the India tour on your own instead of using a travel agent, how did you reserve your hotel rooms? Credit card? Over the phone? Any precautions that should be taken in doing this?
Thanks,
gpeters

shj

In Delhi you should go and see Doma in her little shop on Janpath. It is five minutes walk for the Imperial. She is an amazing Tibetan lady with a very interesting life story. She has all sorts of old things in her shop. I found some lovely old Kashmiri soap dishes there last time.
The Imperial is the best by far and is a museum in itself. Wonderul things from the time of the Raj, and get someone to show you the sprung ballroom.
In Jaipur I would strongly recommend the Samode Haveli. Far more central and the best pool in Rajasthan.
You will need minimum 3 nights in Jaipur, especially if you take time to go up to the Amber Fort. Also most other places on you list.I'd cut out Jodphur.
If you are driving from Agra to Jaipur, ask the driver to stop at one of the many small hamlets near the road,( not far outside Jaipur), and have a wander around to see the village life.

Craig

gpeters - we reserved all of our hotel rooms on the internet using a credit card to pay in full. We had no problems, but always make sure when you provide e-mail info that you are on a secure site. I sent follow-up e-mails to each hotel with questions and to confirm that my reservations were good. For some reason I did not receive the e-mail replies sent from Pahuna Haveli, our home-stay in Udaipur - so I ended up having to call to confirm.

dogster

Everything Craig says PLUS carry a print-out of your bookings, <i>particularly</i> if there are inclusions. I've only ever had one problem in maybe 100 hotels booked on the net in India. The transfer car can be a bit of a lottery, tho'. lol.