Great report Patrick, we're leaving in 2 days time so it has been extremely helpful for us.

Hi Patrick,
I'm enjoying your report enormously - many thanks.

Outstand reading! Thank you for taking the time to write it. We are doing OAT Croatia in Dec. and have oftened wondered about the OAT Viet Nam trip. You now have me convinced that it is a must do! We did OAT Thailand and had a great experience too.

HO CHI MINH CITY (SAIGON):

Throughout the trip I was surprised that almost no one calls this place Ho Chi Minh City. It is just referred to as Saigon (except "officially".

It was just getting light as we headed across the street to the restaurant to the Mercure Hotel -- and they had opened early for us -- but at least it was easy to get across the street at 5:30 AM -- hardly any motorbikes -- what a relief.

The flight was only about 40 minutes and we were on the bus and touring "downtown" Saigon in no time. Clearly this is Vietnam's most "modern" and cosmopolitan city, but still has its share of slums and typical "dirty looking" small businesses. We stopped at the War Remnants Museum and we were given time to view it on our own. Lee warned us that it is run by the government so is VERY one sided, and it used to be called the War Crimes Museum, so we were prepared for the worst. He was right. While it is filled with accounts and pictures of Americans killing and torturing Viet Congs, of course there is no reference to the opposite that was going on at the same time. But surprisingly, I found no evidence of anything exaggerated or untrue. It was really quite factual to my knowledge and rather disturbing. Particularly effective were the many pictures of protests from around the world of people and governments wanting the US to get out of Vietnam (including of course many in the US itself). I tend to forget how anti US, that war made us for quite a while. And perhaps the most disturbing part were the accounts of the use of Agent Orange, complete with pictures of many aborted but badly deformed fetuses. On a brighter side, the top floor has many pictures of places in Vietnam showing "then and now" and it is really quite amazing how well the country has rebuilt since the war. And there is a large area dedicated to Peace, with some stunning artwork.

By the time we left the museum it was starting to rain. And now those of you who are totally "anti-tour" have your chance to say "I told you so". Next the bus stopped for us to visit a lacquer ware factory. This was indeed one of those much feared "kick back to the tour company shopping stops" we all love to talk about. After a couple of minutes with a couple people set up to show the basic steps in the three types of lacquer ware, we were ushered into a huge showroom with an opportunity to buy -- for 45 minutes. GRRRR! What factory? Unlike our visits to a true small family run silk factory, or seeing candy being made, or other things -- this was clearly NOT a factory, but a shopping "opportunity". At least it was our ONLY such stop of the entire 17 days -- but it was the one thing mentioned most about what we didn't like at the end of the tour. But since it was pouring rain during the stop (and I do mean POURING), and since it had nice clean restrooms, no one minded too much, and yes, a couple of people did in fact buy some items.

Next we went to the beautiful Post Office, and kind of waited out the rain for a bit. And we did some other driving in the city on the bus seeing things like the site of the former US embassy, and the Reunification Palace. Then we stopped for lunch at Pho Hung -- a true neighborhood noodle soup place. We sat on stools at two tables and all had the Pho, huge bowls of favorful beef noodle soup with platters of various greens to break up and put on top, and of course add our own amounts of chilis, soy, and hot sauce. I later said that in a way this was my favorite restaurant as it was truly one place that never felt like it was more for Americans or for tour groups. It was our best opportunity to eat like the locals. But I do know a couple of people later kind of grumbled about the place, saying "just soup for lunch". In any case, I loved it, and it was sooooo much better than the Pho we could usually get at breakfast.

We then checked into our hotel, The Chancery. It's right across from the largest park in downtown, and a short walk to the ReUnification Palace (officially called the Independence Palace now) -- which had been the offices of the South Vietnamese government during the war. Good location and it's an all suite hotel so everyone had lots of room to spread out. But most felt it was our least attractive hotel, and at night it was completely taken over with weddings so even the bar wasn't open. Saigon has some splendid 4 or 5 star hotels, but on our "budget level" tour, Lee told us they have had horrible problems with many of the hotels -- the last one they used was the Asian Ruby, but most rooms didn't even have windows, and as he said, they have fewer specific complaints about the Chancery than any other hotel they've used.

The afternoon was free. It rained off and on, but not too hard. I just did a long walk, stopping at what I thought was a super big trendy looking open bar/lounge on a corner. But when I tried to order a drink, they didn't have any cocktails. It's really a coffee lounge, that also offers light snacks and all kinds of fruit drinks and lots of coffee and tea drinks. I found there are many of these around Saigon. Trendy young people treat them as if they were nightclubs -- some even have music or other entertainment.

This evening we had dinner at the hotel -- this was our ONLY meal (other than breakfasts) in any hotel and again we all pretty much agreed that it was our worst meal. Not bad, just typical of what one might expect from having a business dinner in a hotel private meeting room. The highlight was that Lee's lovely wife joined us (they live in Saigon).

The next day was an optional tour to the Cu Chi Tunnels, used during the war and some distance out of town. Only three people opted for this tour, and the rest of us were on our own armed with several suggestions for visits. And we were even on our own for dinner --a few made plans to visit a nice French restaurant for dinner, two others spent much of the afternoon and evening at the beautiful Majestic Hotel roof top dining room and lounge on the river. Meanwhile, I had received emails from Huynh, a step brother to Tu, the guy who showed me around Hanoi. I think there was some "jealousy" in play there. Huynh wanted to show me Saigon as his brother had done in Hanoi, but when he had first emailed me I said I was with a tour and probably wouldn't have time. But when I realized we had this whole day, I decided to take advantage of the offer and said yes -- so he promised to pick me up at the hotel at 2 PM. His wife was "at the beach" with her family but would probably join us for dinner. So in the morning I took a nice long walk, toured the Reunification Palace, went through a street market mostly of food, had a nice iced coffee at one of the more famous coffee chains -- Trung Nguyen, and had lunch at an outdoor garden BarBQ place where I had squid, wild boar marinated in four spices with some wedges of eggplant and another vegetable and spicy boneless chicken to grill on my own table. With a beer it was a nice lunch -- and I liked that you could order these in small portions, so I could get a variety when I was by myself. Nice lunch for about $6 including the beer.

Huynh showed up at 2 -- a little late as they wouldn't let him park his motorbike even for a few minutes at the hotel due to a wedding party just arriving, so he had to put it in the park parking lot about two blocks away. He brought an extra helmet and off we went to see Saigon by motorbike. This is not for the faint of heart. It was a real experience and I soon learned the rules of the road. Whoever is even an inch in front of another bike has total right of way. If he wants to make a sudden turn in front of another bike, then he does so and it is the responsibility of the person just an inch or so behind to be ready to brake or turn with him so they don't run into each other. It's a major commitment to total concentration and instant reflexes, but all these Vietnamese drivers seen to possess that ability, as no one seems to run into each other. Anyway it was great fun and we rode miles in all directions, stopping for pictures or for him to tell me about places. This was the issue. Huynh was fluent in English -- or at least he thought so. He talked away in English a mile a minute, but I could only get about 20 % (well maybe sometimes half) of what he was saying. And he expained things continuously while on the motorbike which I couldn't hear or understand one word of. But it was still fun. We stopped for coffee twice. I suggested a stop for a drink on top of the Majestic, or the Rex, or the Caravelle (all famous watering holes in Saigon) but he just sort of chuckled as if I were joking. Later I found out that neither he nor his wife drink at all, and I guess he really didn't take me serious about having a drink -- and in retrospect maybe that was a good think since he was driving that motorbike.

It started to rain late in the afternoon, and we stopped at a wonderful huge coffee bar called 343 -- it's three levels of mostly open air space around a garden. There were also enclosed and AC rooms with many TVs like a sports bar and one for MTV or videos. At night there is entertainment in the center. We holed up there for about an hour and a half waiting for the rain to stop. I had amazing iced coffees that have a touch of chocolate in them. Finally we gave up and he said we'd get me a poncho (he has one for him in his motorbike. So off we went a block and bought a cheap one, then continued to ride in the rain (not too hard) going to Chinatown, where we also poked around some shops.

He called his wife several times and finally was able to get her. She was on a high speed ferry back to Saigon from the beach (I never did figure out where that was). And she was to join us for dinner at Nha Hang Ngon. I had asked Huynh about this place by email since I had read about it -- and he said we'd go for dinner there -- they love it. It's a big place in an old French Colonial mansion (I think, unless it was just built to look like that). Supposedly they hired the "best" street food vendors to come there and each open their own little kitchen in rows down the sides of the restaurant under cover. You sit at tables and order from a menu, then the waiter goes to the appropriate place to get each food item, and you pay for it on one bill. Huhyn and his wife Nguyen (their names rhyme!) ordered. We had two types of fresh spring rolls, one with shrimp and one with "pig's ear". We each had a bowl of special noodles that had lots of chopped things on them over which we poured a sort of coconut spicy soup. We also had grilled squid with peppers, and a friend noodle dish that had slices of BarBQ pork, then fruit. They each drank fruit juices and I had a beer. They wanted to pay but I insisted -- it was 312,000 dong total -- or about $16 for the three of us. Amazing food and the atmosphere in this restaurant is simply spectacular.

After dinner, Nguyen headed home on her motorbike and Huynh and I rode off to see Saigon by night. It is beautiful. Several streets have rows of draped lights, one street green, two streets in blue, some in white with gold flashing star shapes among them. There are a couple of big dragons which are completely illuminated by the market, and red "flags" of lights with the cycle and the star on them. And city hall, the opera house, and other public buildings are beautifully lit. Finally he dropped me off at my hotel about 9:30. This was a wonderful day, but I was exhausted and wet, and my legs hurt from hugging the motorbike with nervous tension.

The next day was our trip to the Mekong Delta, about 2 hours away by bus. It sounded a bit hokey (visit a bee farm, visit a coconut candy factory, ride a sanpan), but it was all quite fun. We boarded a fair sized open but covered boat and had a tour of the town -- and it's wholesale fish market and fruit market by water, then out into the River past four islands coming to a place where we got out and divided into groups of three for paddled sanpans up a beautiful little canal lined with water palms. We came to a place called a bee factory, a real small village where they do make honey and we saw the hives, putting our fingers into the masses of bees to withdraw a taste of honey from the combs. They served tea with honey and lemon and a few snacks. You could buy some honey and there was a table of handicrafts, but this really wasn't an "offensive" shopping stop. Then we walked a path through a village and a beautiful old abandoned French Colonial house, and arrived at a small coconut candy family -- a family run business and we did see how they make the candy, complete with boiling it on top of a rustic stove fired by broken coconut shells. The most modern thing here was a huge "Hobart style" mixer. Women then form and roll, cut, and then wrap the candies. Again -- we could buy them -- a couple dollars for big boxes or bags of them, but this did not seem like at exploitive shopping stop at all.

We then got back on the larger boat and went to Phoenix Island (the best restaurant on the island since it is the only one). It's a huge place that ALL tourist groups end up at -- all open air. They serve a whole deep friend elephant ear fish at each table, and a girl softens rice paper with water, then scrapes some meat off the whole fish and rolls it in the rice paper with cucumber slices and some noodles. Really good spring rolls to dip in peanut sauce. We also had some grilled tiger prawns, and then soup.

Lee cut us a little short after lunch saying we should try to get back before the rain which we could see coming in the distance. But almost as soon as we got on the boat and left the restaurant the DELUGE started. It was a blinding rain. And of course they dropped the tarps on the sides of the boat, but the wind was blowing the boat so hard due to the enclosed sides, they had to put them up. They passed out plastic ponchos. The wind was driving in the side of the boat and people tried moving to the other side, but weight had to be distributed, so some of us had to stay on the side in the blowing rain. It was actually pretty scary, but within a half hour we had made it across the very wide river and we ran into the building under cover. We were all soaked to the skin and Lee offered for us to stop at a market where OAT would buy us towels and we all agreed that was kind of pointless, so we sat wet for the return bus trip to Saigon. What an experience.

That evening after an hour or so to dry out, we had dinner at Pho Co. (The word Pho, by the way, depending on what kind of mark is above the o, can mean soup or it can mean street or in this case it means village. The name of the restaurant is Ancient Village. It's the restaurant where Bill and Hillary Clinton had dinner during their visit to Saigon. We seemed to be the only people there, but dinner was quite good, the highlight being a salad that had mounds of tempura friend morning glory mixed with other things and really delicious. There was also Lotus rice, flavored rice with lotus seeds wrapped and cooked in Lotus leaves, chicken with ginger and chilis, mixed stir fried vegetables with garlic, and ice cream for dessert. A very nice meal, then back to our hotel.

Again we had a 5:00 wake up call the next morning (I think they deliberately tried to turn us into early birds on this trip) for our flight back to Bangkok. There we were met by a representative (the same one we had before our trip). Most would be flying out the next morning really early -- like 6 AM, so they would have a 3 AM wake up call. Last night all of us (there are 9 as 3 did a post trip to Angkor Wat) ended up at Mango Tree for dinner, which was wonderful and just a block from our hotel The Tawana in Bangkok -- which I think we all agreed is the nicest hotel of our trip. I have an extra day in Bangkok, as my flight to London isn't until 12:15 AM the second night there. So that's where I am now. I'll do a late checkout at the hotel, leave my luggage and go off exploring and have a late lunch, then come back about to retrieve my luggage and head to the airport where I can hang out (or even have a shower) at the Qantas Lounge at the Bangkok airport.

And THAT'S the end of the Vietnam report.

I must say, as you can clearly guess from reading this that my 17 days in Vietnam were a real highlight of my 2 month plus stay in Asia. As I mentioned because of the tour I really did a whole lot more there than I did on my own in China or in Thailand. I'm not sure that I'm a total convert to tour travel, but it was also wonderful having a group to share the experiences with -- compared to traveling alone, that was a huge plus for me. And we were fortunate to have a very active and very well traveled group. Everyone got along fabulously -- no little spats or disagreements -- no one to hold us back -- no one who was late for buses or stragglers at stops -- and no whiners. But perhaps the best part of all was Lee, our guide. He was truly a wonderful guide. We saw him only get a little riled up with other service people when they weren't doing everything just perfect for our benefit. But he was so outgoing and pleasant and often funny, serious when he needed to be, and just a great source of information and discussion. Beginning in January, however, I think he is changing to the newer OAT Ancient Kingdoms tours, which also include some of Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand.

Any questions -- fire away -- and any of the fellow travelers from our group (Evelyn, I know you are reading this) don't hesitate to correct me or offer opposing thoughts or add things I left out.

Patrick, thanks so much for your wonderfully detailed report. You have really given an alternate point of view here. You know I'm not a person to take tours, but I have no doubt that this was the right decision for you for this portion of the trip.

Your whole trip report makes for great reading as you did lots of independent travel plus a tour so we can see what you did in both cases. I must say I'm most impressed in how you utilized your contacts in various places to give you a sample of local life. You had to opportunity to see and do many things most visitors never see or do.

Bravo!

Regarding personal contacts -- it was a growing thing. Like the guy in Saigon who contacted me by email I think because he was sort of jealous of his step brother "bragging" about showing an American around Hanoi. He kept saying, "am I as good a tour guide as my brother?" And even his brother in Hanoi was a result of his friend whom I met in Shanghai. I found Asians so proud and friendly and anxious to show an American their country or city. But the number of personal contacts as well as home and village visits with locals that were arranged by OAT were unique and wonderful too. While I'm the type who doesn't hold back from meeting or talking with a local on a bus or train, I would never have had the opportunity for such complete discussions, meetings, and even touring homes and local businesses as I had on this OAT tour.

Kathy, you are right about it being right for "me". While I've done tons of independent travel, since losing my partner traveling alone just hasn't been quite the same as sharing travel with someone. It is particularly ironic that our guide's name was Lee -- the same as my partner -- and as I told him, it was a great comfort to be traveling with "Lee" once again. Will I do another tour? Well next on my bucket list in particular are Macho Piccu and the Galapagos, and yes, I'm definitely thinking I'll do those with OAT, along with an upper Amazon add-on. And they are high on my list for doing an African safari.

There is no doubt that OAT is not a glamorous tour company. You don't expect four or five star hotels, the meals will not be in fancy restaurants for the most part, and you won't be in the biggest, most modern bus on the road. If those things are important in your tour, then OAT is really not the company for you. I was a little surprised last night at a couple of our group talking about they wish the food had been a lot better, but ironically a couple of them kind of felt their western meals they did on their own in expensive restaurants on our days off were their favorites. I'm just not into that, and totally enjoyed the much more local foods, even if they may have seemed similar day after day. As I mentioned above, if you eat local food for 17 days a couple times a day, there are only so many choices and the meals are going to seem redundant.

I think whether or not people get tired of the food on a tour depends on whether or not they like/love that type of cuisine to begin with. On tour, I ate Chinese and Thai food for 18 and 14 days in a row and did not tire of it because I really enjoy that type of cuisine. However, on my India tour , 4 days in a row of eating Indian food was too much for me, and I was looking for western restaurants for the rest of the tour.

Patrick-What feedback did you get about the Cu Chi tunnel tour from the people who went? I can't decide whether to go, or spend the day seeing more of Saigon.

Based on your trip report, I am leaning toward taking the OAT tour. If I do, I hope I have as good a time as you seemed to have had. Thanks so much for posting.

Patrick...

Thank you for the great trip report. I have noted several of the restaurants you mentioned and will be adding them to my list of choices for when I'm in Vietnam.

NeoPatrick, you have given a superb account of this tour, and I'm grateful for it. I realize how much more a solo traveller can take advantage of incidental contacts and opportunities than a couple could do. I think you have spoken well to the food issues that were raised elsewhere, and, like you, we would have no problem with the allegedly repetitive Asian diet and menus.
I was still hoping that OAT might reinstate their tour for 8 March, but it seems to be gone for good. With a two-week hiatus between their 27 Feb and 13 March tours, we won't be able to go with them. I'm going to look for an agent in Vietnam who can replicate much of what OAT does. (Any suggestions, anyone?)
Others should be aware of the changing OAT price structure. The March tours have dropped another $200 in price, to $1695 without airfare. So, the time-limited "special" offer that expired 30 Sept has been replaced by an even "specialer" offer that now runs until 30 Nov. Sounds like airfares, doesn't it? You have to chose the right purchasing window.
Again, many thanks for such a thorough and informative trip report.
Will

An afterthought, your mention of OAT previously using the Asian Ruby hotel in Saigon, where "most rooms didn't even have windows," is a possible source of complaints, still on other travel boards, about their hotel choices. An experience of that kind of accommodation would pretty well sour a tour for most travellers. (Let's hope the OAT price drop doesn't signal a return to those standards.)

I checked the last 5 reviews of Asian Ruby Hotel on trip advisor. People were generally satisfied with this basic 3 star hotel. It is #33 of 285 hotels in HMC. No one mentioned no windows in the rooms. On tour or on my own, I would not accept a room with no windows and it is hard to believe that a tour company would accept such either..

Exactly, shelleyk, OAT wouldn't accept rooms with no windows. That's why they no longer use it. It should also be noted that there are three Asian Rubys, including a 2 and a 3, like annexes, and they would apparently not guarantee which Asian Ruby they'd put groups in. I had looked at TripAdvisor too, when I thought that was where we'd be staying -- and I too saw mainly favorable reviews, but no mention of staying in one of the annexes either. Lee told us that they've had a consistent problem with hotels in Saigon, and they've tried many of them.

Regarding the CuChi tunnels, the tree who went enjoyed it, but one of them didn't go down into the tunnels themselves, I think just a couple of the bigger rooms. They did mention the bats down there, however, which seemed to be a slight issue, but at least that meant no mosquitos! In any case you don't have to choose the optional tours until the day before they take place and you may get some feedback. Actually one of the other couples on our trip had previously done the tunnels and they did not think they were "worth it", which I think helped to encourage some of us to skip them.

I have really enjoyed your report, Patrick! I've actually enjoyed all of your Asia reports. It is fun reading your impressions of places I've been and hearing about places that I want to go. Your trip sounds like it has been a great success! Have a safe journey to London, if you aren't there already!

I'm going to follow in your footsteps - especially seeking out those restaurants you specifically recommended (and avoiding those you specifically "un"recommended ). Great report.

I have done the tunnels and both myself and BF thought it was well worth the visit. we did a half day tour with comeangovietnam.com and then did a city tour in the afternoon with them. It really does give you a sense of just how ingenious the Vietnamese are AND some interesting history (like the fact the tunnels were actually built to defeat the French)
Patrick i have been to the restuarant you mentioned in HCMC although may i politely correct you (if its the one on Pasteur street) its called Quan an ngon. I was addicted to the chilli beef!!! we went a couple of times and wished we had gone to the one in Hanoi.

Looking to yor take on London, welcome to a rainy UK (although it is supposed to be sunny this weekend)

Great trip report Patrick. I felt like I was on the road in Vietnam with you.

Wonderful report -- thanks!

Smeagol, I'm afraid the name changed -- sort of. I too was asking about Quan an ngon, but found that it is now called nah hang ngon (spelled with no caps) and I have a picture of me standing under the sign spelled that way as well as a business card. Apparently both "Quan an" and "nah hang" mean restaurant, so the name didn't exactly change. And it used to be on another street one block away. When walking I came across Quan Nuong and thought I had found Quan an ngon at first. So perhaps they changed the name to avoid similar confusion?

When I told Lee how great the food was and it should be on his list he hands out, he mentioned that the sister restaurant in Hanoi is on the list, but he hadn't included it in Saigon for some reason. He agrees it's a great place.

By the way, London was bright and sunny yesterday and I welcome the 60 or so degree temperatures after two solid months of heat.

Ahh thanks for clarifying that NP, anyway great place and lovely food!

will you be doing a trip report on London?

I traveled with Patrick on the OAT trip and started with the same trepidations - a 'tour bus' and all, however found the trip to be excellent! (and would recommend it - without any kickback from Oat)
To go back to the 1st Optional Tour to the Tho Ha Countryside that Patrick missed due to his sojourn with a friend in Hanoi - wonderful day with a couple of unscheduled stops. We stopped in a small town to hear about and our group leader purchased for us the "New Moon Cake" which is traditional for festivities (often spontaneous) for children and families during the New Moon which was occurring for the next 2 nights. We also browsed a side street market which was a bit disturbing when we noticed butchered dog for sale. Then off to our travels again when we stopped once more to spontaneously visit a home of a middle class couple who make tiles and do pig farming. We were graciously shown through the home, served tea, and given a complimentary tile to take with us. Our group leader had apparently befriended this couple during a prior tour when one of the group had to use a bathroom and they stopped and asked this family for bathroom privileges. (It's a friendly country!!) We traveled on and reached the spot where the bus parked on the side of the road and we walked along side of a rice paddy, down an embankment, to await a ferry to transport us to the small village across the river - along side many of the locals of the village. After meandering the small unpaved streets and market, we were shown into a courtyard of a family where 3 generations share the space. Several of us had a try at making rice paper after watching the rather adept wife make many. It was not easy and required quite a lot of eye,hand and foot coordination to successfully produce something that came near to looking like the round rice paper of our spring rolls - the equipment was very old and traditional and definitely not mass produced. We were treated to a sojourn in the home of this family with rice wine - a sake if you will - and songs and music from father and son. This gentleman had fought with the North Vietnamese army and our Vietnamese veteran and he had a toast and handshake that was heartwarming to witness. The children of the village followed us around - allowed us to take their pictures and it was a delightful day with a lunch of more traditional Vietnamese fair and back to our hotel for the rest of the day on our own. I can't quibble with any of Patrick's report and am grateful that he chronicled it so well, since the days were full and by evening time, I was to tired to journal on my own.
I would just like to add that I did go to the Cu Chi Tunnels and found the experience to be quite amazing. I did go down to the second level of the tunnels - sliding on my behind as we had to do - but did not attempt the 3rd level which means sliding on one's stomach. Still in all the time was very well worth it and I would recommend it. Although I do recognize that not all would be able to physically enter and traverse the tunnels for a variety of reasons. But it is such an education and being of the era of the Vietnam War - adds to my knowledge base. We were treated to tapioca root to eat dipped in a sugar, cinnamon and not sure what else mixture that was surprisingly refreshing. (And having encountered a bat in the tunnel, didn't freak out as I thought I might!!) Our final treat was iced sugar cane drink - purchased by our trip leader - not too sweet - just perfect!! Oh, but wait, lunch was included and it was back in Saigon at L'Etoile - THE ABSOLUTELY - HANDS DOWN - BEST MEAL of the entire trip - to die for perfectly cooked fish with two sauces - AMAZING!!!!!

Thanks Patrick for your well documented travelogue!! Evelyn