Mara, I have no idea what you're doing. I checked a bunch of dates at random and the single and the per person double rates were exactly the same. Perhaps you looked at one of the trips that require a pre or post trip option which added $1000, but it should be adding that per person regardless of single or double. The only other possibility I can think of is you picked a date where the only two single spaces are taken? I was told most of them only allow two single travelers in any group at the "no supplement" pricing.

Hoi An has good restaurants. If you miss croissant or cakes, Cargo is the place. The display is near the front entrance. Grap a seat upstairs overlooking the river. My favorite restaurant is the Secret Garden, it's tugged in a small lane, not everyone knows about this place. Cooking class in the morning and at 2pm. Even if you can't do a whole meal, go there for coffee to soak up the garden atmosphere. Massage at The Hoi An Day Spa, 47 BA TRIEU. The owner speaks English.

It's Cargo club not Cargo

why not call oat and ask them... i believe they are in boston..

This is so interesting as you have just completed an amazingly independent trip to China and SE Asia and now are on this tour. I look forward to your next installment and more impressions of OAT. Friends have been trying to get us take one of their tours for years and now you are giving me good insight into what one of their trips is like. Thanks!

Patrick: I was a bit worried about this leg of your trip but it sounds like you are doing swell. Small group, lots of free time and an excellent guide really makes a difference. Keep enjoying!

i do find it almost impossible that neither the tour company nor the guide are collecting commissions along the way however for shopping stops...

I've been on tours where I have seen the guide given cash at the end of the shopping stop, but I've also been on tours where the guide gave participants 15-20 minutes to shop and stuck to the time limit, leaving with not any pay off. It all depends on the tour company and the guide. You are mistaken if you are painting all tours with the same brush when it comes to shopping stops and commisions to the guides.

Just out of curiosity, I reviewed my trip notes for my last OAT trip. (Trip report with pix links here: http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...a-sunshine.cfm) We did indeed have one place where goods were offered for sale: the orphanage/school compound run by one of the aunts of the king of Swaziland for the hundreds of AIDS-victim orphans and other children. I got a doll that looked just like the chief (the king's aunt) and cost me, oh, maybe about five bucks. I really don't think the guide was getting a kickback on that. The stop included demos, dancing, and a tour of the school, with lunch included; OAT support has enabled them to build a lav system, among other things.


Again, I'm an independent traveler and not all about defending OAT, but this isn't your standard tour. (In Peru, there was one stop at a pottery kiln, but those who preferred got taken back to the hotel instead, and another stop at another of OAT's charities where the women weave their way to some financial freedom; definitely not sales pressure for either.)

Sorry for the bit of a hijack, Patrick, but just wanted to give my point of view on what was questioned.

"i do find it almost impossible that neither the tour company nor the guide are collecting commissions along the way however for shopping stops..."

Well of course, if you want to believe they are, then believe away. One type of person who should never travel on a group tour is the type of person who never trusts or believes anyone. But since there are NO shopping stops on the OAT tour at all (with the exception of the "humanity shop" which is a charity), I really don't understand where you think the commissions are coming in. Care to explain? Your preconceived idea of a group tour and this particular actual tour are not one and the same.

There is a deliberate attempt at "giving back to the countries we travel to" with OAT, including their Grand Circle Foundation which gives millions of dollars mostly raised by their travelers. For example there were forms passed out to contribute to the children's orphanage we visited, and it's clear that the trip there was in part to encourage financial support from the travelers. I'm sure some travelers might throw a tantrum about "I paid enough, why do they expect us to support their pet project?" -- again the type of traveler I'd just as soon not have on MY tour.

HUE to HOI AN, VIETNAM

It was a nice flight to Hue, and our bus was waiting. Off we went to our hotel for the next two nights -- The Camellia, which was a very lovely hotel -- nice rooms with lots of amenities, and in a nice location, you could walk to the river or shops or whatever if you wanted. There was a nice restaurant on the top floor, where several of us headed for a late dinner (about 9:30 I guess) -- dinner was not included tonight -- which many welcomed saying they'd been eating too much! I opted for a nice stir fry dish of beef and vegetables -- and had them attempt a dry robroy for me. That part wasn't so successful, so after drinking a martini glass of dry vermouth with a drop or two of Scotch in it, I opted for a Johnnie Walker Black on the rocks -- much appreciated.

Wake up call was our earliest so far -- 6:30. But all were prompt -- Lee had given a pretty firm warning about that from the start and no one wanted to be the one to hold others up. A very good thing. Buffet breakfast in the roof top restaurant was particularly nice, and they did what Lee had told us was one of the best Pho soups around. Not everyone's choice at breakfast, but nothing like a good bowl of really good beef noodle soup to get you going. They did it the right way -- with a long and slow cooked broth, and they'd just lightly cook the beef slices in the broth for each bowl, then ladle them and broth over the noodles, add greens and bean sprouts, chilis and lime to taste. Really good.

We then boarded the bus for the short ride to the citadel -- the remains of the old city capital -- from 1802 to 1945. It was all kind of interesting, and I actually enjoyed seeing a Forbidden City area that was quite old and decaying -- not all perfectly restored and freshly painted. The water lilies in the moat reminded me of a Monet. Next we reboarded the bus for a ride to the Thien Mu Pagoda, and a discussion about various forms of Buddhism, including differences between Vietnam Buddhism and some others. Next we headed to a very small almost countryside like pagoda run by a group of Buddhist nuns. We were served lunch in their rectory. It was all vegetarian -- and was really delicious, including a tofu dish and a salad dish that one would swear had meat. In addition to the nuns sometimes serving meals, they also make incense sticks which was quite interesting. Rice sticks both undipped and dipped were out in the sun to dry.

After lunch we returned to our hotel (about 2:30 with a couple hours at leisure before meeting at 4:45 to go to the Minh Tu Orphanage. This was truly a highlight of the trip so far. As we got off the bus, we were greeted by adorable children running out, tugging at our hands and leading us into a large room where they entertained us with a sort of dance/fashion show with music -- they had assembled costumes -- kind of a Vietnamese version of "dress up". Then we entertained them with a couple songs. We toured the nursery with a few infants new to the orphange, but it houses nearly 200 children from infancy into college years. There goal is not to adopt the children out, but more to give them a chance there. They go to public schools and a number of the older ones go to college, still living at the orphanage. It was a surprisingly "happy" place with clearly a lot of love. There was also a local high school "club" which came to visit while we were there. They come to play and tutor children, and we witnessed a "tutoring class" for those apparently taking algebra. It was time for dinner, and some of our group joined in serving the food, then we left.

Our dinner was at Phuoc Thanh restaurant. Another family style meal of various Vietnamese dishes. We returned to the hotel about 9 PM. I heard my friend Johnny (Walker) calling to me from the rooftop lounge.

The next morning, was another 6:30 wake up call and at 8 after another super buffet breakfast we departed by bus -- about 4 hours or more to DaNang then on to Hoi An. We had a couple semi-improvised stops along the way -- one was on the road when a couple young boys were riding and tending their water buffalo. Lee talked with them and like many rural school children, they only go to school half a day, and help on the farm or tend the animals the other half day. People took turns having their pictures taken on the water buffalos, etc. Lee gave them a small amount of money to divide between the three of them and had told us NOT to give them more.

Another stop was along a lagoon where they are raising oysters, but sadly no one was out collecting them. But we also stopped by a nice hotel and it made a good restroom break.

But the highlight of the morning came when we were riding and Lee told us he had just gotten a call from our chef for the dinner tonight, and that he needed us to stop and buy a few things at the market. So he passed out 10 notes of 1000 dong each to each of us (they're worth about a nickel each) and a piece of paper. He told us three things (sounded like toi, guhng, and ooht), but didn't tell us what they were or even how to spell them. Then we stopped at a big small village market where no one would speak any English and we all were to go find and buy one piece of each -- at the same time practicing our "hello, thank you, how much is it, and good bye" in Vietnamese. Back on the bus, I think only one couple got them all right -- it was a piece of ginger, a bulb of garlic, and one chili pepper. I somehow ended up with both dried and fresh chili and the ginger but no garlic. Some ended up with really bizarre things. It was great fun.

In DaNang we stopped on a fishing beach to look at the big round baskets covered with pitch or tar and used as little boats to transport fish and the fisherman from the bigger boats to the shore. And we stopped at what was called China Beach -- but the government forbids the use of that name as it is attached to the "American War". Now it is being developed with a casino and some major resort hotels and condos.

We had a delightful lunch at Goda Restaurant on the edge of Hoi An, and then went to check into our hotel, Phuoc An. The hotel was nice -- not as "luxurious" as the Camellia. This was a stop where Lee had told us the hotel will do laundry by the kilo ($2 a kilo) which is an amazing bargain, so I rounded up 4 kilos of laundry -- practically everything I have with me. And I also went for a $5 haircut in the barber/beauty salon. Not bad. Some of the women were getting pedicures and manicures as well. We had a couple of hours before meeting at 3:30 for a walking tour of ancient Hoi An (trying to wait till after the worst heat of the day -- and it WAS hot).
Hoi An has a ton of character, with a nice mix of French Colonial and Chinese architecture and an odd Japanese bridge that led to a Japanese Quarter, long gone. Hoi An had been a major port until the river silted up and the port moved to DaNang. We wandered through the markets and Lee bought a number of different exotic fruits that he cut up and distributed (bon bons were a favorite). And we stopped at a tiny commercial bakery with just one modern revolving oven that does nothing but bake baguettes, and he bought one for each of us to try -- wow, REAL French bread just from the oven.

After the general tour, including a stop in an old temple and a brief sit-down talk with tea in the "oldest" house with one of the family members, we had about an hour on our own to scatter for cocktails or some shopping before our 6 PM cooking class/dinner at Champa Resatuarant with "Hero" the funny and entertaining chef who could have his own TV cooking show. We all took turns wrapping fish in banana leaves and also rolling our own spring rolls. The meal was fun and excellent.

A little stroll along the river in Hoi An showed us that this town really is much prettier at night. It's filled with delightful little bars and restaurants, many along the river, and the whole glow of the town is so pretty at night. Then our bus took us back to the hotel, where I walked across the street to a little bamboo place built above the river (a small branch of the main river) and sat having some more Johnny Walker. This was probably the best day so far. Really a great day that had been jam packed and a four hour ride that had been great fun. Oh, talk on the bus turned to the "American War" and Lee related some very personal family stories, about his father who ran to hide from the attacking Northern soldiers when their south village was invaded, and how his father then was imprisoned for several months. Also about their house that was destroyed in another attack several years later, and various other personal accounts of how the war affected their family. He also passed around a special family album he made which includes pictures of his grandfather who was the French teacher to the last king of Vietnam.

The next day, Monday, we had breakfast -- again this hotel had a rooftop restaurant, but the Pho wasn't as good. Then we boarded the bus for about an hour and a half ride to My Son, the Champa temple ruins which were from the 7th to 14th centuries. Hardly an Angkor Wat, but still interesting, especially knowing that some of the ruins are about 300 years older than anything at Angkor Wat. We returned to Hoi An for what many of us thought was our best lunch so far -- at Morning Glory, which is also a cooking school. We had amazing fresh spring rolls with shrimp, the BEST vegetable curry soup, carmel pork, steamed rice, banana flower salad, fresh baguettes, really good mixed vegetables, and a dessert that seemed to be a bread pudding with coconut, dates?, and various other things in it. Every bite of this food was really bursting with flavor and excellent. Originally the bus was to return to the hotel after lunch and we had a few free hours before the optional tour at 4 PM. Anyone wanting to stay in town could, but would then need to get a cyclo or taxi back to the hotel, but everyone seemed to want to just browse a little then go back to the hotel, so happily Lee agreed and we all scattered for about a half hour or 45 minutes and re-met for the bus back to the hotel.

(Pause here, as I'm totally caught up and now waiting for that 4 PM optional tour).

LOVE you report, don't let the detractors about tour groups etc distract you (LOL)
I am really enjoying travelling along with you.

For your info i have booked Pilu!

Patrick-Did you feel you had enough time in Hue and Hoi An? Did you get to see the Emperor's tombs along the river? I am enjoying your detailed report. As a traveller who loves a good tour as much as independent travel, I am glad you are enjoying your time on tour. But you are right about some people not being cut out for a touring with others, no matter how good the tour, how great the guide or how nice the other travellers are.

No, we did not see the Emperor's tombs.

Something I left out above though. When we were going through the citadel in Hue, we had noticed a group of maybe 10 Vietnamese men maybe in their 60's. Lee, our guide talked with one of them and found they were a group of Northern Vietnamese veterans from the war. They had been encamped in the Citadel during the war apparently when it was bombed (?). One of our group was a pilot of transport planes flying missions into Vietnam during the war. We had an impromptu meeting, they all shook hands, expressed a few thoughts about the war, and all agreed they hold no animosity. All this was being translated back and forth by Lee, accompanied with lots of picture taking from each side. It was really quite a moving little "ceremony".

Now back to today. At 4 PM we were met at our hotel by a team of cyclo drivers. This was an optional tour that cost $45 per person including dinner. We embarked on a "tour" through the rural countryside outside Hoi An. We passed fish farms, rice paddies (they are presently harvesting and burning), and saw a strange mixture of old poor houses and very fancy brand new houses. We learned this area was all very poor until a few years ago. Real estate has soared, and many poorer farmers or fishermen who own their land have discovered they can sell a portion of it for building. So some wealthy businesspeople from Hoi An and DaNang as well as other cities are building homes there, some along the river. And often the land owner only sells a portion of the land so he continues to live in a ramshackle house while a fancy new home goes up right next to him. At one place we stopped, Lee talked with an old woman living in one of the poorest houses we saw, and she invited us in. (He has done this before with her, as well as with a few other people -- they don't always visit the same ones). This delightful 87 year old lady who lives alone (both her husband and her only son died years ago). She has black teeth from chewing beetle nuts -- a sign of beauty to her generation. She showed us pictures of her family, including a niece and grandniece who live near by and happened to come by as well. The kitchen is a separate shack, mostly of bamboo, with a stack of wood, an open fire with a grate on it, and a single non refrigerated cabinet for food. Her "outhouse" was suprisingly new -- with a new porceilan squat toilet and new tile floor -- this is via the government insisting on septic tanks and plumbing for all people. It was all very interesting.

After about an hour of cyclo riding we were taken to a makeshift pier where we boarded one of the old tourist boats which had been brought there for us, and for an hour or more cruised the river, watching a guy lower one of the huge rigged fishing nets into the river, a small ferry load up with motorcycles and drivers to go across the river, and witnessed a spectacular sunset over the water. We ended up cruising into Hoi An and disembarked to have dinner at River Lounge, across the little river from the strip of restaurants on the main side. We sat outside in the garden overlooking the river and had wonderful pumpkin soup with coconut milk, delicious fried spring rolls, herb roasted chicken, sauteed beef with peppers, eggplant cooked in a clay pot, rice -- of course--and brownies for dessert. We also drank LaRue, the local beer, which was included.

A very pleasant day indeed.

Sign me up for this trip.

Sounds like your tour is working out for you. I remember Morning glory. We went there for dinner but the place was full so I booked a table for the following night. The food was very good. I also had better-than-France Crossant and Baquette in my hotel for breakfast. Now I remember.

Patrick, it sounds like this OAT trip has been just perfect for you - I'm so glad.

In my opinion, tours are more sucessful when most meals and excursions are included so the group has a more cohesive feeling. Plus this guide sounds unusually good. Glad this is working out so well.

Your trip sounds wonderfrul. I has made me even more anxious to do ours which is scheduled in April. We are going with Smartours, and hope it will be equally exciting.

Not so sure about Elainee's post re included meals bonding the group. I have only been on one previous escorted tour (usually travel independently), and like to have some meals on our own or share it with another couple or 2. It's fun picking out your own restaurant and eating what you want when you want. It's also nice to have an occasional quiet meal. Either way, there's something for everyone re travel. Never thought we'd do a tour, and here we are booked for a second one. I think that at our ages (60s), a tour is appropriate for some venues. When we have done large cities, ie Budapest, Prague, Vienna, Rome, etc., it is really easy on your own, but when visiting a country (top to bottom) we found the tour to be the way to go. We also really enjoyed the cameraderie of our fellow travelers.

Keep posting..you're doing an amazing job.

I agree with floridagal. For me the best tours are ones that allow you some free choice of meals and enough free time to get away from the group and do your own thing. I've been on several Smartours and they have been excellent. I would have gone to Vietnam with them, but they combine it with Angkor Wat which we have already visited. So for us, it is OAT or DIY. I still have not decided. I am awaiting more info from Patrick, as the back end of the OAT tour (Da Nang and Dalat)is what I have concerns about.