We're considering a move to Hong Kong from the U.S. We'll get some sort of expat package but we don't know the details yet. Any thoughts on living in HK with two school age children? Any ideas on neighborhoods or schools?

We'd also appreciate any help on how to educate ourselves in advance about this possible move, and anything we should do to prepare? My husband has visited and we are aware that this is an expensive city.

Saw this site on a very recent thread in this forum:

http://asiaxpat.com.hk/

You'll definitely get more info there. But in general, the first thing to do is to negotiate a good housing lease with your expat package. Rent can constitute a huge porportion of your total expense in HK, even after the property prices have come down quite in a bit in the last 6 years.

Depending on how much you can get for housing, you can then choose among the areas. Houses (even semi-detached or townhouses) are extremely expensive, so most people live in high-rise apartments. The best areas are generally the Peak (most expensive), the Mid-Levels, and the Southern part of Hong Kong Island.

If you must have a house, and want something slightly cheaper, there are also various areas in the New Territories with more low-rise possibilities like Fairview Garden in the NW part, or Kau To Shan near Sha Tin, etc...

Or if you don't mind ferry rides, consider Discovery Bay on Lantau. I used to live there. 30 minutes by ferry from Central, and you have an exclusive lower-density community with various houses, high- and low-rise; plus a school for expat children. Another lower cost island is Lamma. Both of those place have many expats.

Thank you Rkkwan:
My husband has been checking out the islands, areas and website you mentioned, so this was a big help to us. How did you like living there?? Have you lived in other Asian cities?Thanks again!

I am Chinese and grew up in Hong Kong, but have been in the states for 15 years now. The areas my family had lived in have always had higher percentage of expats (both from the UK and US), or mixed-couples.

The last place we were living in HK was Discovery Bay on Lantau. It's really a great place. There are no cars there (except for the shuttle buses and utility vehicles), there's a beach, there's now a bus that goes to Tung Chung MTR (close to the airport). There's the school I mentioned, as well as shops, restaurants, a club house, a golf course, etc.

And rental prices are significantly lower than on Hong Kong Island, as most locals don't want to ride the ferry.

Here's an unofficial site: http://www.discoverybayhk.com/

Here's the official site for the school: http://www.dbis.edu.hk/index.php

There are futher links in either for more infomation.

Asiaxpat.com.hk will likely be your best source of information, since it's a site with boards for expatriates living in Hong Kong, but if you don't get your questions answered there, there are many other good expat sites. Feel free to e-mail me and I'll send you the link to the one I frequent most often - a few people in Asia, but none currently in Hong Kong, but it's a group of about 20 expats all over the world - I'm sure they'd be happy to answer more of your questions!

Good luck! We're Americans who have been living in Shanghai for 5 years - every minute has been an adventure, and we consider ourselves among the luckiest people in the world! It's a great experience, and a great side benefit is that you should have a lot of opportunities to travel! (Hint: If possible, get them to write in your contract X amount as "travel allowance" instead of "home leave" so that you can go anywhere you want instead of just back to the US)

rkkwan: Thank you for being so generous with your information. We're still in the decision/application process so this is extremely helpful especially since we need to be in a family-friendly area of Hong Kong. Discovery Bay on Lantau sounds wonderful and we are looking into it.

Thank you, too Andrea!
I will email you soon. This would be our first time to take our young children abroad, so we would have many questions. Do you have children?

Congratulations! I have been an expat for the last 13 years, 5 yeas in Hong Kong, 5 years in Singapore and am into my third year in Zurich, so as you can see, the life grows on you. I loved Hong Kong, would go back in a minute and still miss it.

A few things to consider:

1. If you are considering enrolling your children in the Hong Kong International School (probably the best regarded English-language school), contact them ASAP to determine if there is a waiting list, as there has been in years past. Webiste is hkis.edu.hk . They are located in Repulse Bay and I believe they have an upper school campus near to Stanley as well.

Other popular schools are

Swiss-German School on the Peak on Hong Kong Island; contrary to its name, instruction in the "international stream" is in English. Go to gsis.edu.hk

Canadian International School, go to go to http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/frame.html

Island School on Borrett Road, website is island.edu.hk

Finally, there is the American International School, but this is located in Kowloon Tong, which is not convenient, IMO. I don't know much about that school. Website is ais.edu.hk

Private schools are expensive, for example HKIS runs about $18,000 a year, so you would need tuition assistance from your employer.

2. The best source of information is people at your husband's company who are currently working and living in Hong Kong. Ask your husband to get their phone numbers and e-mail addresses and give them a call or send an e-mail. They will have the most precise and current information on schools and housing.

3. It would not be unreasonable for your package to include the services of a relocation company who can answer your questions now before you make a decision and then help you find apartments, schools, etc. There are several in Hong Kong, I have some names at home and will check tonight and post them tomorrow.

4. If your children are going to attend a school on Hong Kong Island and your husband will be working on Hong Kong Island, then it would be most convenient to live on Hong Kong Island. Lantau is nice and is quieter, but I think your husband, your children and you will grow tired of taking ferries all the time and matching your schedule to the ferry schedule. If you join the American Club, both of their facilities are on Hong Kong Island/ My experience with friends who lived on Lantau is always of being out to dinner with them and they have to rush out at 10:30 pm or so to get the last ferry. If you can afford it, live on Hong Kong Island. The main expat areas are Stanley (near to the American School), Repulse Bay and Mid-levels. Happy Valley is also popular, esp the Blue Pool Road area, and Jardine's Look-Out is good for some of the schools like the Swiss-German school. Kennedy Road (parts of which are in Mid-levels and part in Wan Chai) is also popular.

5. Hong Kong has an extremely low personal income tax (like 14%) so it is probably to your advantage NOT to take a "tax-equalization" package from your husband's employer. You should discuss all the tax implications of you move with a good tax accountant.

6 A good place to start a search on living in Hong Kong generally is the American Women's Association of Hong Kong. Take a look at http://www.awa.org.hk. Take a look at their "Partner Sites" which contain a ton of helpful information. I belonged to this group in Hong Kong and Singapore and found them useful and fun. In addition to advice on living in Hong Kong they have language classes, cooking classes, workshops and sponsor travel in China and elsewhere. They have a board where you can post questions also.

Other sites you may find useful

www.expatexchange.com
www.expat-essentials.com
www.expatforum.com
www.expatnetwork.com
www.escapeartist.com/expatriate1/expatriate1.htm
www.outpostexpat.nl

Also, I highly recommend a book called "Culture Shock! Hong Kong" which gives a fairly comprehensive and in my view accurate picture of culture and customs in Hong Kong. It is part of the Culture Shock series of books published by Graphic Arts Center Publishing Company . You can buy them on line from Amazon or your local bookstore can order it for you.

Just a suggestion for homes: I found the following websites useful when I was finding a place for myself last year (I've lived here 16 years and grew up here):

www.hongkonghomes.com
www.gohome.com.hk

Good luck!

Cicerone:
I wanted to thank you for your amazingly informative post, especially regarding schools and areas of Hong Kong. I'm surprised at how expensive the Int'l school is, and concerned to hear that there could be waiting lists to get in. Yikes. We still have so much more to learn, but it is an exciting prospect--I haven't lived abroad since my college days years ago!

Thank you to all for the detailed advice and also the websites.

We are Americans who have lived in Asia for 12 years. We lived in Hong Kong from 1991-1995. We now live in Jakarta (but that's another story).

1. A typical expat package will cover housing, school tuition and related fees, and home leave airfare. Your company should also pay all relocation expense including a short-term apartment or hotel while you are looking for a permanent home. Some other costs to negotiate are:
Car (or car service allowance)
Broker's fee
Tax preparation fee
Housing furnishings/appliance allowance
Utilities allowance
Club membership

2. The Hong Kong International School is a wonderful school. Wherever you live, transportation by bus is provided.

3. We lived in mid-levels and didn't have a car. Try to stay a month or two in temporary housing -- either a furnished apartment or hotel so that you can get a feel for the different areas. Most Hong Kong apartments do not come with kitchen appliances so you'll have to budget the expense of stove, refrigerator, washer/dryer. Electricity costs are very high.

4. Most middle class families have at least one domestic helper (maid/child care person). I don't know the current cost but it's an affordable luxury that you should take advantage of.

5. Most apartment leases are two years. At the end of the lease the owner can increase the rent as much as the market will bear. Recently the market has been soft so this hasn't been a problem, but you should have a written understanding with your employer about what will happen if your rent goes up. Usually, the lease is in the company name and usually a two month deposit is required. Try to get the company to pay the deposit.

6. Hong Kong can be kind of claustophobic on weekends so you either want an apartment with a pool/recreation area or access to a club. The American Club is great but also very pricey. Large corporations have group memberships.

7. Research your health insurance options. Some U.S. plans will not cover foreign countries.

8. Your contract should specify a clear worst case scenario incase things don't work out. For example, will the company continue to pay rent and salary so that your kids can finish out the school term? Will they pay temporary housing while your stuff is being shipped back to the States?

Hong Kong and Asia in general is a wonderful place to live. You and your children will benefit greatly.

You have received some good advice so far, and I hope you are too freaked out about how expensive Hong Kong is. I can say that after two years of living in Zurich, I miss the bargains in Hong Kong like eating out, dry-cleaning, cheap public transport, cheap taxis and cheap maid service (not to mention low income taxes)! So it is not all bad news. . .

1. Relocation Services

I used HK Homefront Ltd when I first moved to Hong Kong in 1997, but can't find a website for them, so I think they may either have changed their name or gone out of business. Others may have other relocation firms to suggest. The two companies below are well-established and well-respected real estate agents in Hong Kong, but they also offer relocation services, esp Richard Ellis. Their websites also have some limited listings of apartments, you might get an idea of size, price and location.

Richard Ellis:
http://www.cbre.com/International/As...esidential.htm

Colliers Jardine
www.colliers.com/Markets/HongKong/

2. Apartment Listings

Get a copy of The South China Morning Post, which is the main English-language newspaper in Hong Kong. Take a look at their classified ads for flats; this section is especially large on Saturdays and Sundays If you live in a major city, you should be able to buy a copy, or your library may have back issues or can borrow them from another library.

You can also look at classified adds on line. Go to their website at scmp.com. On the main page, scroll to the very bottom and under "Specials" in the fine print you will see a link for "classifiedpost.com". Click this, and you will be brought t a new page. Scroll all the way to the bottom of this and in the black shaded area, click on "Property". You will go to a new page. In the window on the upper left where it says "Choose Property Type", scroll down to "Residential ? HK Island? To Let", then hit "Search". This will show listings for Hong Kong Island. If you want to see other areas like Kowloon or Serviced Apartments, choose those.

I see a listing for a 3 bedroom, 2,500 square foot flat in southside (good for HKIS) with terrace and sea view for US$9,700. Believe it or not, that is a very good price for such a large apartment with a terrace and sea view in a desirable area. That would have been about $12,000 or possibly a bit more a few years ago. There is also a listing for 3 bedroom 1,800 square foot apartment in ParkView for US$6,500, which again is a good price for that quality of building and size. Park View is a large residential complex at the top of one of the highest hills in Hong Kong, it has its own supermarket, etc. It is very self-contained and a lot of expats like it. It has marvelous views over the city and harbour and is in a very quiet, green and basically undeveloped part of Hong Kong Island, which is also nice. There are several good walking trails from here to various parts of Hong Kong.

Note that square footage includes a balcony/terrace (if there is one) and the maid's room, which is often a small room off the kitchen, although in larger older apartments it can be a pretty good size bedroom off the kitchen. Therefore, the square footage can be a little deceiving until you have seen the actual flat.

Note also that often the rent quoted does NOT includes property taxes and maintenance fees which can total more than US$1,000 a month. Make sure any housing package you get includes rent, taxes and maintenance charges. A parking space is often an extra charge as well.

An "open view" means no real view of the harbour/sea or the hills, which you would pay extra for.

Good news in today's edition of the SCMP is that " Luxury residential prices recorded sharp corrections last month following an overall market decline and a weakening in sentiment."

3. American Chamber of Commerce ? Hong Kong Chapter

Take a look at their website for basic information. They have also published a book which you can order (see below). I would not bother to buy this until you have committed to going to Hong Kong, as it is more useful for day to day living issues in Hong Kong.

http://www.amcham.org.hk/home.html

Living in Hong Kong, 14th Edition 1999
ISBN 962-7422-73-8 LC 98-193694 Overseas Delivery: US$ 74

You may find old or used copies of this on Amazon.com or your bookstore may be able to find a used copy. The last edition is 1999, and even that would be a little dated, so don't buy anything except the 14th edition.

You've gotten excellent advice on here.

Make sure your husband negotiates for as much as possible. "Club membership" may not seem important to you right now, but it may become critical while you are there and it can be VERY expensive.

There are things like COLA - Cost of Living Adjustment/Assistance which means a percentage of his salary usually. This is like "hardship" pay - for the hardship of having to move abroad and live in a place like Hong Kong!

Current ex-pats can give you lots of information on what can/should be included in an ex-pat package.

Lucky you!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! We can't believe all the wonderful advice we've gotten-thank you for taking the time to write it all down for us. I am still absorbing it all and looking up the links and references. I was up until midnight and I must say that my head was spinning, but Hong Kong really sounds like an exhilarating place to be.

Thank you Marmot for your advice about relocation packages; we will now know what to ask for or expect. Thank you Cicerone for your reassuring and helpful words. Hopefully our package would include school tuition!! Now we have to see what happens in the next 2 weeks or so...

For sure your package should include school tuition (unless your kids speak Chinese!). A basic expat package includes housing, tuition, and homeleave airfare. Everything else is negotiable. You won't get it all, so take the time to decide on your priorities before you start talking.
If your company has other families in Hong Kong, they probably have a standard policy which can be both good (you don't have to reinvent the wheel) and bad (other people's priorities may not be the same as yours).

I wanted to thank everyone again for the invaluable assistance; we've been having a lot of fun looking up all the references you gave! We're still waiting to hear if we'll be moving next year and whether it will indeed be Hong Kong, but thanks to you all, Hong Kong is now are first choice. It sounds like it would be a great adventure, so we're hoping...

Sorry to be negative, but -
I grew up as expat/army brat. Hong Kong was one of the places where I went to school. I went to Bradbury Junior School and South Island School. I hate my parents for the upbring that they provided me. Everything was all about money and material things. The people who I went to school with can't get it together. Many have problems galore. I look at my freinds in the US, they know the important things in likfe. My freinds from HK don't.

abcdefghi:
Interesting...I'm sorry to hear you had such a difficult time in HK as a child. Having done some research on the sites provided by these great Fodors posters, I have learned that some people have found some of the HK private schools to be full of spoiled children. We will certainly try to avoid these, but we have some of this where we currently live too!
My husband was an Army brat also, and moved almost yearly,(though never to Asia,) and while the changing school part was difficult, I think he feels he gained a unique world view from all his travels. I have lived abroad a few times in a few countries too, and I do appreciate much about the US; I just love experiencing other cultures.

dlai-

There is some truth to what abcdefghi wrote. I grew up in Hong Kong and went to a local Chinese school. Even the locals are materialistic. Unfortunately, for many HKers, it is all about showing off: wearing name brand clothes, having the latest Gucci handbags, the smallest cellphone models etc. I came to the US after high school, and found Americans in general much more down to earth. I have been living in the US for 13years now, and I don't worry about wearing Gap or Old Navy when I go out.

But still, I think parental guidance/influence will be able to sway one's children to focus on what is really important and what is not. Don't let this dissuade you from moving to Hong Kong. It is a great city and you & your children will find it a valuable experience.

dlai - I never had a difficult time growing up. I just wanted to draw your attention to the subject. The people I went to school with were always given what they wanted, even today their parents are buying them houses, cars, planes, etc. When they don't get their way they don't know what to do.
I don't mean to say don't move. Hong Kong is a great city, you will have a great experience living there. I hope you enjoy it. (Sometimes I think of moving back). I just wanted to stress that materal things are not the only things in life. yk is right about how the locals love to show off with their designer clothes and handbags, etc.
If your family does move to HK, please let us know your experiences of living in HK.
If you have any more questions I will do my best to help you.

Thanks, and sorry if I misunderstood. I've seen that kind of materialism/brand consciousness in other places too (e.g. Paris, parts of California) and it is not our thing so I appreciate the warning! It's kind of you to offer your help.