just back from trip to China with tips
Nov 29th, 2005 | 09:03 AM
#1
Original Poster
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 55
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just back from trip to China with tips
Just got back from 2+ week trip to Shanghai, Guilin, Yangshuo, Hong Kong, Lijiang and Beijing. Thanks in part to all the great advice I got here we had an incredible trip. Like to return the favor by answering any questions and providing a few tips we learned/experienced along the way.
Flight booking
Used www.wacts.com to book all internal flights. Lixia (Kay) was very nice to deal with, spoke decent English and was in general very helpful and fairly east to contact (just don't expect instant responses). We paid by check and all our flights were delivered to our first hotel in Shanghai no problem. You can haggle with her (especially if you find cheaper flights elsewhere). We did not but did negotiate free ticket delivery. The only glitch with her is we prepaid to have someone pick us up at Pudong airport on arrival in China and that person was a no-show. Kinda pain to start out that way and we still have to negotiate the return of the $42 but, even with that I would recommend them at least I felt they were honest, they delivered tickets as promised and I couldn't beat their prices.
Hotel booking
Booked all my hotels through another agent. Even though she generally got better deals than what I could find and saved me much logistically hassle, I think you can probably do just a well booking on your own. We were really glad though that 1) we had booked ahead of time and that 2) we didn't skimp on hotels. China can be rough around the edges (to put it mildly) and it was always nice to come back to a nice place. In most cases (Hong Kong excepted) you are always getting a lot of bang for your buck so it is worth it to stay somewhere a little nice. Warning all mattresses are extremely hard.
Bargaining
Had to get used to bargaining for everything outside the hotels. Don't stress too much about overpaying. We definitely did but it almost every case it ended up being a matter of a few dollars difference at most. The people are generally very poor, especially in the outlining areas, so we didn't mind overpaying a little. That being said when it comes to bargaining don't try to come back with a reasonable reduction from the initial asking price, come in much, much lower and then go from there. In almost every case you WILL find what you're looking at in many other places so just be ready to walk away and you'll get the price you want. And if you do walk away you can just try again in a stall 10 feet away. For example if they want 650 rmb, don't come back at 600, come back at 40 and you'll probably get it for like 60. We noticed a pattern. We would ask for a price then they would ask us, then we'd ask them and then we'd give a final price. So in other words, they expect at least a couple of rounds or pricing, so start low enough.
Shanghai:
Stayed in the Grand Hyatt Pudong. Bund view definitely worth it. Great breakfast buffet included. If you need to go directly to the Bund you can take the Tourist Tram but it's only worth it (maybe) once. We found it much easier and cheaper (1 yuan vs 30) to take a ferry. Great people watching and incredible front row seat crossing the super busy, crazy waterway. Check out neighborhood south of Yu Gardens for some real Shanghai street life. Definitely eat soup dumplings from the Nan Xiang in the Yu Gardens shopping area across from the teahouse in the center. You can't miss it. It will have a line of people waiting to get dumplings to go. Just go up the stairs to the third floor, share a table, and enjoy. We had the crab dumpling set and they were incredible. First suck the juice out and then gobble them down. Yu Gardens shopping area was very touristy but nice, actual gardens themselves are very worth a visit. Got some great, hand-made slippers in great fabrics, at Suzhou Cobblers right off Bund. Not cheap at like $50 US per pair, but nicer than any others we saw, though again much more expensive too.
We ate at the Wamphoa Club on the Bund. Good food, but expensive. Insist on a window table. Hairy Crabs are in fact hairy. They are expensive, hard to eat, don't offer a lot of food but are really unique tasting and delicious. Roof tops at M on the Bund and Peace hotel were open for viewing but not for drinks as it is was too "cold".
Guilin
Didn't stay much time here, just 1 night, enough to get a cruise to Yangshou. Don't book cruise through hotel unless you know what it will cost on the outside and can bargain them down. Sheraton is like other have said, just adequate. Before our cruise we walked down the road outside of the hotel to the right just 5-10 minutes to see the "Elephant drinking water" rock formation. Worth doing if you have at least a spare 1/2 hour. Took cruise $200 rmb each (was quoted $250 in hotel). Fabulous scenery but a little long at like 5 1/2 hours. Didn't eat much at lunch. Not too appetizing.
Yangshuo, definitely stay at least 1 night, preferably 2. Stayed at Paradise Hotel. Nice room, great views (mountain views worth it). Really cute little town with some great scenery and caters (nicely) to western tourists. Ate some really good food at Lisa's Cafe & Minnie Maos. Went to the Night Light Show, which was worth it (150 rmb for 2 tickets) -- a cast of over 600, but cold! Got a guide, Kevin, on the street for a day trip to climb Moon Hill, and visit towns of Fuli, Xingping and Yuku. Climbing Moon Hill is quite strenuous (think at least 45 minute very steep stair climb) but doable for most people without disabilities. Fuli and Xingping, older, less touristy villages. Bought some nice paintings in Fuli and chartered a little river taxi to take us to Yuku, a little fishing village only reachable by water via Xingping. Have a pomelo and cross between a grapefruit and an orange. All really picturesque and interesting riding the river upstream (very slow) against the strong current and doing it at river level. Whole day was like 300 rmb for the two of us and then we paid $230 rmb through guide for a taxi from Yangshou to the airport in Guilin. Be prepared for some ridiculously crazy drivers. We were honestly scared for our lives on this stretch. Four or five cars would simultaneously try to pass a single car driving on the shoulder in the dark in the rain, on a curve, in the mountains. Get the idea.
More to follow
Flight booking
Used www.wacts.com to book all internal flights. Lixia (Kay) was very nice to deal with, spoke decent English and was in general very helpful and fairly east to contact (just don't expect instant responses). We paid by check and all our flights were delivered to our first hotel in Shanghai no problem. You can haggle with her (especially if you find cheaper flights elsewhere). We did not but did negotiate free ticket delivery. The only glitch with her is we prepaid to have someone pick us up at Pudong airport on arrival in China and that person was a no-show. Kinda pain to start out that way and we still have to negotiate the return of the $42 but, even with that I would recommend them at least I felt they were honest, they delivered tickets as promised and I couldn't beat their prices.
Hotel booking
Booked all my hotels through another agent. Even though she generally got better deals than what I could find and saved me much logistically hassle, I think you can probably do just a well booking on your own. We were really glad though that 1) we had booked ahead of time and that 2) we didn't skimp on hotels. China can be rough around the edges (to put it mildly) and it was always nice to come back to a nice place. In most cases (Hong Kong excepted) you are always getting a lot of bang for your buck so it is worth it to stay somewhere a little nice. Warning all mattresses are extremely hard.
Bargaining
Had to get used to bargaining for everything outside the hotels. Don't stress too much about overpaying. We definitely did but it almost every case it ended up being a matter of a few dollars difference at most. The people are generally very poor, especially in the outlining areas, so we didn't mind overpaying a little. That being said when it comes to bargaining don't try to come back with a reasonable reduction from the initial asking price, come in much, much lower and then go from there. In almost every case you WILL find what you're looking at in many other places so just be ready to walk away and you'll get the price you want. And if you do walk away you can just try again in a stall 10 feet away. For example if they want 650 rmb, don't come back at 600, come back at 40 and you'll probably get it for like 60. We noticed a pattern. We would ask for a price then they would ask us, then we'd ask them and then we'd give a final price. So in other words, they expect at least a couple of rounds or pricing, so start low enough.
Shanghai:
Stayed in the Grand Hyatt Pudong. Bund view definitely worth it. Great breakfast buffet included. If you need to go directly to the Bund you can take the Tourist Tram but it's only worth it (maybe) once. We found it much easier and cheaper (1 yuan vs 30) to take a ferry. Great people watching and incredible front row seat crossing the super busy, crazy waterway. Check out neighborhood south of Yu Gardens for some real Shanghai street life. Definitely eat soup dumplings from the Nan Xiang in the Yu Gardens shopping area across from the teahouse in the center. You can't miss it. It will have a line of people waiting to get dumplings to go. Just go up the stairs to the third floor, share a table, and enjoy. We had the crab dumpling set and they were incredible. First suck the juice out and then gobble them down. Yu Gardens shopping area was very touristy but nice, actual gardens themselves are very worth a visit. Got some great, hand-made slippers in great fabrics, at Suzhou Cobblers right off Bund. Not cheap at like $50 US per pair, but nicer than any others we saw, though again much more expensive too.
We ate at the Wamphoa Club on the Bund. Good food, but expensive. Insist on a window table. Hairy Crabs are in fact hairy. They are expensive, hard to eat, don't offer a lot of food but are really unique tasting and delicious. Roof tops at M on the Bund and Peace hotel were open for viewing but not for drinks as it is was too "cold".
Guilin
Didn't stay much time here, just 1 night, enough to get a cruise to Yangshou. Don't book cruise through hotel unless you know what it will cost on the outside and can bargain them down. Sheraton is like other have said, just adequate. Before our cruise we walked down the road outside of the hotel to the right just 5-10 minutes to see the "Elephant drinking water" rock formation. Worth doing if you have at least a spare 1/2 hour. Took cruise $200 rmb each (was quoted $250 in hotel). Fabulous scenery but a little long at like 5 1/2 hours. Didn't eat much at lunch. Not too appetizing.
Yangshuo, definitely stay at least 1 night, preferably 2. Stayed at Paradise Hotel. Nice room, great views (mountain views worth it). Really cute little town with some great scenery and caters (nicely) to western tourists. Ate some really good food at Lisa's Cafe & Minnie Maos. Went to the Night Light Show, which was worth it (150 rmb for 2 tickets) -- a cast of over 600, but cold! Got a guide, Kevin, on the street for a day trip to climb Moon Hill, and visit towns of Fuli, Xingping and Yuku. Climbing Moon Hill is quite strenuous (think at least 45 minute very steep stair climb) but doable for most people without disabilities. Fuli and Xingping, older, less touristy villages. Bought some nice paintings in Fuli and chartered a little river taxi to take us to Yuku, a little fishing village only reachable by water via Xingping. Have a pomelo and cross between a grapefruit and an orange. All really picturesque and interesting riding the river upstream (very slow) against the strong current and doing it at river level. Whole day was like 300 rmb for the two of us and then we paid $230 rmb through guide for a taxi from Yangshou to the airport in Guilin. Be prepared for some ridiculously crazy drivers. We were honestly scared for our lives on this stretch. Four or five cars would simultaneously try to pass a single car driving on the shoulder in the dark in the rain, on a curve, in the mountains. Get the idea.
More to follow
Nov 29th, 2005 | 09:14 AM
#4
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
In Shanghai:
1) Did people speak English?
2) Did the restaurants have English menus- and if not did they have pictures and could you read the prices?
3) Shopping- did you get knockoffs? if so how much off the asking price did you get?
4) Were prices on items marked or did you have to ask? I suspect none were marked and they quoted you a price after they sized you up!
1) Did people speak English?
2) Did the restaurants have English menus- and if not did they have pictures and could you read the prices?
3) Shopping- did you get knockoffs? if so how much off the asking price did you get?
4) Were prices on items marked or did you have to ask? I suspect none were marked and they quoted you a price after they sized you up!
Nov 29th, 2005 | 11:05 AM
#5
Original Poster
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
To answer a few of these questions. For guidebooks, used Fodors mostly as a general overview, as well as Time Out (especially for HK) and plenty of Internet research. There was one other that I'll have to check and respond later.
Beijing for us was a must stop because of the Great Wall and the Forbidden City. Both of these were incredible experiences and absolutely worth visiting even at the expense of other destinations like Shanghai. Shanghai just isn't in the same league when it comes to world class, must-see sights. Now, comparing city to city, we enjoyed Shanghai better. To our view, Beijing was just urban sprawl. After 4 days we still didn't have a feel for the place. And the pollution there is incredibly bad, even for folks like me who are used to typical urban pollution. It was like walking in a bank of fog. Definitely bring sinus/cold medicine to try to combat the effects. Shanghai doesn't have a coherent personality either but is more easily digestible and understandable. Nicer architecture and city center (Bund). BUT, if comparing, I would say you must choose Beijing for the sights mentioned.
Most people we spoke with had a least a few words in English, but not enough to help you with directions, etc. You must have your hotel write out for you all your destinations on cards so (i.e. "Please take me to the Forbidden City"
so you can give them to taxi drivers, pedestrians on street to show you the way. Some restaurants have English menus and some had pictures, others had neither. Yes, we got some knockoffs, good quality, latest fashion North Face jackets for $25 US a piece (we could have gotten older versions for less), we got decent quality pashminas for $5 US a piece, "cashmere" scarfs for $1.50 a piece, etc. The usual rate of reduction from the initial asking price all varies. You must really be ready to walk away to get the best deals. No prices were almost never marked and it wouldn't matter anyway because you must bargain, even in some stores. They will say that all prices are firm if they are. Otherwise bargaining is a must.
Beijing for us was a must stop because of the Great Wall and the Forbidden City. Both of these were incredible experiences and absolutely worth visiting even at the expense of other destinations like Shanghai. Shanghai just isn't in the same league when it comes to world class, must-see sights. Now, comparing city to city, we enjoyed Shanghai better. To our view, Beijing was just urban sprawl. After 4 days we still didn't have a feel for the place. And the pollution there is incredibly bad, even for folks like me who are used to typical urban pollution. It was like walking in a bank of fog. Definitely bring sinus/cold medicine to try to combat the effects. Shanghai doesn't have a coherent personality either but is more easily digestible and understandable. Nicer architecture and city center (Bund). BUT, if comparing, I would say you must choose Beijing for the sights mentioned.
Most people we spoke with had a least a few words in English, but not enough to help you with directions, etc. You must have your hotel write out for you all your destinations on cards so (i.e. "Please take me to the Forbidden City"
so you can give them to taxi drivers, pedestrians on street to show you the way. Some restaurants have English menus and some had pictures, others had neither. Yes, we got some knockoffs, good quality, latest fashion North Face jackets for $25 US a piece (we could have gotten older versions for less), we got decent quality pashminas for $5 US a piece, "cashmere" scarfs for $1.50 a piece, etc. The usual rate of reduction from the initial asking price all varies. You must really be ready to walk away to get the best deals. No prices were almost never marked and it wouldn't matter anyway because you must bargain, even in some stores. They will say that all prices are firm if they are. Otherwise bargaining is a must.
Nov 30th, 2005 | 12:30 PM
#6
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
I bargained pashmina scarfs down to 28 RMB ($3.50 US) a few wks ago in Beijing Silk Mrkt. If you buy more items from the same vendor, you can get better bargaining power.
Also, just want to warn everyone that they should open up each package and inspect the item. Some can be defective (missing stitches, frayed sides, holes, etc.)
Also, just want to warn everyone that they should open up each package and inspect the item. Some can be defective (missing stitches, frayed sides, holes, etc.)
Nov 30th, 2005 | 03:08 PM
#7
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Welcome back Murphy. I'm enjoying your report. I am anxious to hear your feelings and experiences on Lijiang as I always put in a huge plug for it and have not heard what anyone else felt about my favorite place.
Keep it coming, Lynnie
Keep it coming, Lynnie
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Dec 6th, 2005 | 05:54 AM
#10
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
We are going to be in Beijing on 12/20. Have 15 day. So far, I have not booked any domestic flights and still working on itin. planning. This is as far as I have gotten:
12/20-24 Beijing
12/25,26 Guilin
12/27 Xian
12/28,29 Hangzhou [Fly Xian-Shanghai & bus/train to Hangzhou]
12/30,31 Hangzhou via bus to Huangshan
01/01-03 Huangshan-Shanghai via air or take overnight train to Shanghai on 12/31
01/04 Fly from Shangahi to Beijing & connect to our international flight back home
Could anyone tell me how I can improve the above itin?
I also fancied visiting Lijiang and Datong. But we are short with time. I might be able to fit Datong trip while in Beijing. Is there a fast connection from Datong to any other towns we are interested in visiting?
Would someone PLEASE help???
Thanks.
12/20-24 Beijing
12/25,26 Guilin
12/27 Xian
12/28,29 Hangzhou [Fly Xian-Shanghai & bus/train to Hangzhou]
12/30,31 Hangzhou via bus to Huangshan
01/01-03 Huangshan-Shanghai via air or take overnight train to Shanghai on 12/31
01/04 Fly from Shangahi to Beijing & connect to our international flight back home
Could anyone tell me how I can improve the above itin?
I also fancied visiting Lijiang and Datong. But we are short with time. I might be able to fit Datong trip while in Beijing. Is there a fast connection from Datong to any other towns we are interested in visiting?
Would someone PLEASE help???
Thanks.
