First, thank you to Peter for responding to: Reputable Tour Agency?. After posting I went back through several hundred postings and found a great deal of insightful information, thank you all. Especially thank you to the gentleman who complained about plugging a book. I have since tracked down the author and ordered it from Amazon.com. If the book has 1\10 the the direct and insightful information Peters' postings do, I will be delighted.
OK, here's the deal. Airfare and dates unchangable. Cancelling tour portion Monday.(No deposit, no return.)
Departing 11\1 from USA, arrive Beijing Sun. 11\2 @ 8:45pm. Departing Shanghai Sun. 11\9 @ 9:30am. I am a single male,(straight, if it matters), 50 yrs. old, 6'1" and 220#, not fearful of traveling alone,(I will be.), to China for my 51st birthday. As long as I am at the airport in Shanghai for my flight home the rest is open. I think I would like to include Xi'an in my itinerary but, open to suggestions. My hotel in Shanghai was the Peace Hotel which seems like a destination in itself, would like to keep, but no reservation now. Would prefer to stay in upscale hotels but no suites, they all look the same when asleep.

Think I would like to see:
Great Wall
Tian'anmen Square
Mao(under glass)
Forbidden City
1 or 2 Temples
Terracotta Warriors
1 or 2 Museums
And anything else I shouldn't miss, in case I never get back.

Shopping. Would like to poke around for some souvineers. Inexpensive silk robes (ladies), Knock-off antiques. Bookshelf type momentos.

Could spend more if needed, but would like to keep it between $2,000 - $3,000 US including the air\train transport inside China. Trans-Pacific air already paid seperately.

I prefer to do 2 to 3 things in a day. I like to have 1 "you wouldn't believe this", another interesting venue and a third that could be dropped if I get side-tracked. I do enjoy my cocktails in the evening. I "think" I would like to spend 50% of my time in Beijing, 50% in Shanghai, and the other 30% someplace just as interesting.( I had to make this a challenge.)

Well, what do you think ? Can it be done ? All responses will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Hi, Rickg!

"I would like to spend 50% of my time in Beijing, 50% in Shanghai, and the other 30% someplace just as interesting (I had to make this a challenge)."

130% of your time - that's quite a challenge, but I'll try and make a go of it!

You have only 6 full days in China. You could either spend 2 full days in Beijing, 2 full days (including travel back and forth) in Xian, and 2 full days in Shanghai. Or you could divide it evenly: 3 full days in Beijing and 3 full days in Shanghai.

In Beijing, I would start out Monday with Tienanmen Square, the Forbidden City, the Summer Palace, and, if you have time, squeeze in the Temple of Heaven.

Tuesday, day two, go to the Great Wall, most likely Badaling, and the Ming Tombs.

In between somewhere in day one/two, you should go to Silk Alley, which is right behind the US Consulate. It's a place where you can get silk things and knockoffs and all sorts of stuff for VERY reasonable prices. Be prepared to bargain here. The Chinese all seem to be very proficient with English numbers when it comes time to bargain! Knock prices down by at least 50%. Others have given tips on bargaining on Fodor's Travel Talk, you might want to access those threads. And yes, the silk is genuine, but the colors may not be colorfast, but then the colors on some silk items are not colorfast even from very expensive places (as my wife's purple neck can attest)

In Beijing, there is the moderately-priced Traders Hotel which is centrally located. It is run by the very upscale Shangri La Hotel Group out of Singapore. It offers the best of Western-style hotels at a reasonable price and is priced minimally for business people. You might even get a fantastic deal through Priceline. The Traders is very used to dealing with foreigners and so ease the transition for you.

The Traders has a tour desk downstairs which can arrange tours for you. Or you can ask the hotel to arrange for a taxi to be your personal taxi for the day. The price is arranged up front and you pay at the end of the day when the taxi brings you back to the hotel. It is better to let the hotel do this than to try, without speaking the language, to go and get some "bargain" taxi on your own. Make sure you either have the hotel's business card or have the hotel staff write down the name of the hotel, so that you can be assured to returning to the same hotel, should you get "lost". Getting your personal taxi would be the way to go for the trip to the Great Wall, unless you want to sign up for a tour. Get these arrangements done the moment you arrive.

In addition, the Traders has a good Western-style breakfast alongside an extensive Chinese style breakfast. If you want something to talk about on return home, you can try their Chinese breakfast - with it's thousand year old eggs and dried fish. Otherwise, try their made-on-the-spot omelette.

The Traders has a Chinese style dinner restaurant where they serve pretty good Chinese food. Just a skip, hop, and jump away is the China World Center (?) or some name of that sort. It has a very fancy hotel of the same name, also part of the Shangri La Group, and a bunch of different restaurants, including a very good Korean one that I can recall. You can do very well having your Happy Hour there in the beautiful lobby or any one of the restaurants.

Day three, go to Xian. You probably will not have time for much else except a visit to the terra cotta warriors. Maybe Peter can help with the flight times in and out of Xian.

Day four, in Xian and also in transit to Shanghai.

Days five and six: Shanghai. The Peace Hotel is OK, bit of a old place but good location, as I seem to recall. Walk along the Bund. Go to Chienwangmiao (sp?). Go to the new and modern Pudong. Shop (push, shove?) along Nanking Road. There is no lack of watering holes in Shanghai.

Have fun! Great trip!

Jason has some good ideas. I would tour Beijing from 11/3-11/6 at least. There is so much more to see there than in Xi'an and Shanghai. Possibly you could get a "taste" of China on this trip and return for a longer stay. I say that because, IMO, 7-10 days is the minimum time needed just to see Beijing.

With 4 days you could do the Great Wall at Badaling and Summer Palace + Beihai Park or Temple of Heaven. (assuming you have a car/driver and get an early start) Probably need to devote most of a day for the forbidden city and Mao's tomb/Tian An Men Square, etc. (and possibly the Museum of Revolution Culture and History. You could allow a day to shop the Silk Market, Russian Market, etc. and sample Chinese cuisine, Wander around the Friendship Store and/or Wangfujing Street for shopping.

The Lama Temple (Yong He Gong)is in the north part of the city and one of the biggest/best temples to visit.

If you must go to Xi'an I would agree that an early morning flight from Beijing followed by a quick visit to see the warriors/Bell Tower, etc. and an evening flight on 11/7 would be OK. Then you would have 11/8 to take a short cruise on the Huang Pu river, see a few sites in Shanghai and wander down Nanjing Street to find the ladies garmets you would like to purchase.

Enjoy! China is a wonderful country.

Michael

Not to sound negative, but six days in China for a "Trip of a lifetime" is ridiculous. A person could spend six nights alone in Beijing!

If you only have six nights, I would suggest that you spend four nights in Beijing, one night in Xian, and one nights in Shanghai. Besides seeing the Terra Cota Warriors, I don't what else there is in Xian. While it would be nice to have more time in Shanghai, your schedule does not allow it.

When you really have the time to spend more time in China, check out www.skyauction.com. Two years ago, for my 30th B-Day, my wife and I went on an all-inclusive package that was a 15 night Pacific Delight guided tour, with 5 nights in Beijing, 5 nights in Shanghai and 5 nights in Hong Kong. It included about half our meals (all breakfasts and a few lunches and maybe one or two dinners), all air within China and air from either Los Angeles or San Francisco (with reasonable add-on fares from other U.S. cities), and tours on about 10 of the 15 days.

The total price for the tour was only $1,250 per person, based on two persons sharing. Since a lot of that price was in the airfare, I doubt that a single person would pay much more, possibly a couple hundred more. The hotels were all 3* hotels and were adequate at the time for my wife and I.

If you do go on any guided tours, do not buy from the shops that they take you to, as they have deals with the stores and get huge commissions, causing the stores to really mark things up for those in the tour. Even if you pay only 50% of what the item was listed as, you can be sure that you paid WAY TOO MUCH. At the end of our trip, while in Hong Kong, we saw the exact same things that we killed ourselves bargaining for, for about half the price of what we paid, even after intense bargaining!

Anyhow, best of luck and I hope you have a great 51st B-day.

Hi

My wife and I went to China in March and we did Beijing, Xi'an and Hong Kong in two weeks. We got to see the Great Wall (at Simatai) and that was amazing, Forbidden City (once again an amazing sight), Tian'anmen Square, Chairman Mao?s memorial hall, the Terracotta Warriors in Xi'an and so on. I have posted quite a lot of information in a trip report together with some pictures on my homepage www.gardkarlsen.com. Maybe you can find some useful information there Please get in touch if you have any questions

Have a great time in China...I'm sure you will have a wonderful time.

Regards
Gard
Stavanger, Norway

>I think I would like to include Xi'an in my itinerary but, open to suggestions.

I'd spend four to five days in Beijing, a couple in Xi'an, and just the tail end of the trip in Shanghai, if it were me.

>My hotel in Shanghai was the Peace Hotel which seems like a destination in itself, would like to keep, but no reservation now. Would prefer to stay in upscale hotels but no suites, they all look the same when asleep.

The Peace Hotel's Art Deco interior is memorable, but the plumbing, standards of maintenance, and service are not (or not for positive reasons). This hotel coasts along on its history, and doesn't represent good value for money. It would be better to stay somewhere else and perhaps visit it.

> Think I would like to see:
Great Wall

There are several choices from Beijing, including two sites close together easily visited as a half day trip, using public aircon rapid buses for about $3 in fares altogether, or more distant sights involving long-distance buses or cab hire. But even the nearby Badaling will be reasonably quiet in November, and walking away from the crowds is not difficult. You can see that together with Juyongguan nearby, which is little visited. Do not under any circumstance ask your hotel to provide transport as you will be royally overcharged. A typical five-star hotel may ask as much as Y1200 for a day's hire, but you can negotiate your own taxi for Y300 or so for the day. You might want to consider the Jinshanling to Simatai trek along the Wall (about three hours), but this would take a whole day including getting there and back.

> Tian'anmen Square

Not much more than a big open space. But if you are visiting the Forbidden City and entering through the Tian'an Men, as well as crossing to see Mao, more or less in the centre, you'll see enough. One of the best views of the square is from atop the Tian'an Men itself, or, for about a fifth the price, from the inner tower of the Qian Men (the Zhengyang Men).

> Mao(under glass)

Remember to check your bag and any camera at a neighbouring museum, such as the History Museum, before joining the line as these are not permitted inside. The mausoleum is only open half days much of the time, so be sure you know the times, and have a look at the queue before definitely deciding to enter. You can have 30 minutes to an hour of shuffling for merely a few moments alongside the coffin (which may contain Mao or a wax figure--both body and figure exist and no one's ever sure).

> Forbidden City

At least half a day. Make an early start for the best light. By all means take the main tour up the middle, but then explore the myriad side turnings which are much more human in scale and more interesting. The museum of clocks and of jewellery and other treasures are all worth visiting, as are Cixi's theatre and the Qianlong emperor's garden.

> 1 or 2 Temples

In Beijing the Lama Temple is perhaps the most spectacular. But while you're there, also see the much quieter and more atmospheric Confucius Temple nearby. Few people would visit Beijing without seeing the Temple (Altar) or Heaven, but see the neighbouring yet little-visited Altar of Agriculture while you are there. For something odd and a little different, see the Daoist Dong Yue Miao.

If you take a shorter trip to the Great Wall, consider a countryside side trip to see the temples of Tanzhe Si and Jietai Si, in leafy surroundings a metro and bus ride away to the west of the city.

> Terracotta Warriors

I'd suggest taking one of the three daily overnight aircon express trains to Xi'an, all leaving late afternoon from Beijing and arriving early in the morning in Xi'an with plenty of time to see the Warriors (in fact a direct bus goes there from just to your left as you leave the station). Soft sleeper class is comfortable enough, you may get a chance to chat with some Chinese in your compartment, you'll see something of the countryside before the light fades, and you'll save a lot of time, and a fair bit of money.

While in Xi'an, a wander around the Muslim quarter, the Great Mosque, the museum mentioned below, and perhaps the Forest of Stelae, or a day trip out to the Tang dynasty tombs (it's worth taking a one-day tour for this).

> 1 or 2 Museums

The Shanxi Lishi Bowuguan in Xi'an is one of China's best, as is the Shanghai Museum, so I'd choose these two--they're better than anything Beijing has to offer.

> And anything else I shouldn't miss, in case I never get back.

Since you're in Shanghai, a stroll down The Bund and into the former French Quarter for some impressive colonial architecture. I'd be tempted to spend a night in the Grand Hyatt for its unmatched views over the Huangpu.

The key to successful independent travel in China is to have a list of priorities and tackle them in order, knowing you won't reach the bottom of the list. China's a vast country, so there's no point in imagining you can do more than scratch the surface on a brief trip. But you certainly be able to see more than enough in these few days to make it a memorable and worthwhile journey.

> Shopping. Would like to poke around for some souvineers. Inexpensive silk robes (ladies),

I wouldn't recomment the Silk Market unless you are well-versed in prices. Foreigners are typically asked 10-15 times the usual price for goods, and in fact there's very little silk there--this is the market for knock-offs of Western brand-name clothing. A fake Timberland shirt can be bought for Y45, but the first asking price may well be Y160 or Y180. The numbers of tourists you'll see there should be enough warning that prices will be better elsewhere.

For silk you are far better looking at Beijing Sichou Dian (Beijing Silk Store) in Qian Men, the Ruifuxiang Choubu Dian in Dazhalan Jie (and with a branch in Wangfujing), and the Yuanlong Sichou Gufen Youxian Gongsi (Yuanlong Silk Co. Ltd), northeast side of the Temple of Heaven.

>Knock-off antiques. Bookshelf type momentos.

Knock-off antiques are the only kind available. Your best choice would be the the Panjiayuan market, for both "antiques" and momentos but that's principally active on Saturdays and Sundays so you'll miss it. You could try the nearby Curio City, but they do rather know you're coming, as do those vendors on the top floor of the Hong Qiao market (Bill Clinton shopped there). I'd try the Baaguo Si market, which sees almost no foreigners, is less geared-up for overcharging them, has all the bric-a-brac you could wish for, and the extra merit of being in an old temple.

> Could spend more if needed, but would like to keep it between $2,000 - $3,000 US including the air\train transport inside China. Trans-Pacific air already paid seperately.

You'll find it difficult to spend that much unless you are really determined to do so. Even at the best hotels your total accommodation bill shouldn't be more than $800 or so at that time of year, and you could easily halve that while still staying at some of the best hotels, and quarter it will still staying at new and clean three star hotels. If you must book in advance, stick to Sino-foreign joint-venture hotels of *recent opening* and which are fairly central or well-positioned for public transport (such as the Marco Polo, or Grand Hyatt), and book through the hotel's own Web site rather nearer to your date of departure. There's certainly much better value for money, better position, and lower rates for upmarket hotels other then the long-established and overly popular Trader's, for instance.

> Well, what do you think ? Can it be done ?

It certainly can. I'd fly from Xi'an to Shanghai, buying your ticket when in Xi'an (easily done and discounts easily obtained). There are as many as eight flights a day, most of which go to Shanghai Hong Qiao airport, which is the one you want--very close to the centre of the city.

And you should end up taking half that budget home. Although China is far from being the cheapest country in Asia these days, but it's still excellent value for money, especially for the flexible independent traveller.

Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html