jmsvss

Wow! After many months this is really starting to come together. Here is our itinerary. FYI we are husband/wife in our late 40's early 50's. Please help me with my questions below.

Flying out of Dulles on United Apr 20. Had enough points to upgrade to business class.

Arrive Narita - We are staying at Courtyard Marriot Ginza for 6 nights beginning Apr 21. I have arranged a tour with Junko on the 23rd. From Tokyo we hope to visit Hakone, Yokohama, possibly Kamakura if there is time.

Fly to Hakodate on the 27th for 3 nights. The 29th is a holiday so the only accomodation I could find was Comfort Hotel Hakodate.

Depart Hakodate on the 30th by train to Yamagata. Hyperdia indicates about 7 hours by train. Frankly, I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what the scedule is so if anyone can help please do. In Yamagata we will stay at Showakan Ryokan one night and Comfort Inn Tendo the second night. Again, the Comfort Inn was the closest available accomodation I could find for our second night. Considering it is Golden Week I should probably count myself lucky.

Travel to Takayama by train on May 2 (about 8hrs?) We will stay at Sumiyoshi Ryokan one night and Rickshaw Inn the second night.

From Takayama we will go to Kanazawa for two nights on May 4 and 5. Again, sparce accomodations. We are staying at Garden Hotel Kanazawa. If anyone is familiar with this Hotel please let me hear from you.

On May 6 we will travel to Miyajima by train (5 hours?) and stay at Kinsuikan Ryokan.

On May 7-14 we will be in Kyoto at the Kyoto Okura. Here I am interested in finding a private tour guide like Junko. If you know of anyone please let me know.
From Kyoto we hope to visit Hiroshima, Himeji

JR Pass - How many days should we get? Are they very useful for touring around Kyoto and Tokyo?
Considering we will be traveling from Hakodate to Kyoto during Golden Week should we try to get reserve seats on the train?

We are interested in touring a sake brewery - anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks so much for everyone's generous input so far. I have certainly learned a great deal so far.

KimJapan

Garden Hotel Kanazawa is across the street from Kanazawa station. It is very old for a Japanese hotel, and has small rooms typical of a business hotel. I'm not sure what you are paying, but if it is more than ¥10,000 per night total then it is poor value and you can do better I'm sure. The location at the station is convenient only for station access. Sightseeing is a bus/taxi ride away, and while neither difficult nor particularly expensive, a hassle that isn't necessary.

A better location would be in the downtown area, for example the Tokyu Excel (showing no availabilitiy, but it may be early), APA Chuo (13m2 doubles at ¥10,000/night, small but great location), or Toyoko Inn Kohrimbo (brand new business hotel, reservations after 4/15 not yet opened, but is usually quite empty so should be a sure thing to get a room there). From the Kohrimbo hotels, you will be able to walk to Kenrokuen, Omicho, the Samurai district, and be near the nicer tourist shops leading up to Kenrokuen, as well as the many museums.

I'd encourage you to make a stop in either Shirakawa-go or Gokayama on your way to Kanazawa...Golden Week has historically been great for cherry blossoms in Shirakawa-go (though every year is slightly different), and both S-go and Gokayama are villages rather than city like Takayama.

We live in Kanazawa, so if you need anything, you can e-mail at teaghanmackenzie at mac dot com.

jmsvss

KimJapan - I was hoping to hear from you regarding my stay in Kanazawa. Your comments confirm my uncomfortable feelings about Garden Hotel (It is Y8500 per night). I was unable to find any vacancies at ANY hotel for May 4 and 5 in Kanazawa. I thought it was because of Golden Week but maybe it is because it is too early. Thank you very much for your suggestions. I will keep an eye on these hotels.

mrwunrfl

The questions I mentioned in your other post are:

Why are you going to Hakodate?
Why are you going to Yamagata?

But I see now that you have several posts and your itinerary is all over the map, literally. On one thread you are planning to visit someone in far northeast Hokkaido. On another you are flying into Hiroshima. I think that you may be joking.

jmsvss

No - I am not joking. Yes I have been planning this for a while. Yes - originally I was planning to go to Sapporo to visit. However; until this past weekend I was not able to finalize our flight arrangements and I had serious second thoughts about spending 6 nights in Sapporo and 3 nights in Hakodate. Also, once I had secured our flight I was better able to seriously look at travel between various points on our 22 day trip.
I now have secure flight arrangements and confirmed reservations within Japan that I covered in this post. prior to that I was seeking the knowledge of experienced people, such as yourself, to help me plan the best vacation possible to Japan.

I felt that with a first week in Tokyo and and last week in Kyoto that I could reasonably spend the middle week hopping my way down the island. It did take me a couple of weeks of asking questions and gathering information to compile a general plan. I am sorry if this appeared to be a joke to anyone. I was just trying to plan wisely. I am sorry for asking too many questions. I guess I was a little too excited.

BTW
We are staying in Hakodate to meet my son who lives in Abashiri. We are staying in Yamagata because I found what appeared to be a nice ryokan after a full travel day from Hakodate.

mrwunrfl

After the 14th, what happens? Are you flying home that day from Osaka Kansai? Are you taking the train to Tokyo that day and flying out the next?

I've read about a couple nice places to stay between Sendai and Yamagata city. Are you staying there or in Yamagata city or elsewhere in Yamagata prefecture?

Your itin has several back to back long travel days.

jmsvss

We are flying out of Osaka on a 5 pm flight.

You are right. Our middle week has a couple of long travel days (hakodate to Yamagata and Yamagata to Takayama) Our ryokan in Yamagata is "a 30 minute ride from the Oishida station" so I assume it is in the prefecture. Our second night in the area is currently in Tendo. Currently we have a long travel day on the 30th. Yamagata area on the 30, 1, and departing on the 2d with another long travel day. Upon reflection I think I would prefer break up the Yamagata-Takayama leg by finding someplace interesting to stay between the two places. It would also get us to Takayama earler in the day on the 2d.

mrwunrfl

In the time it takes to get to the ryokan in Oishida you could travel through Tokyo. To an onsen ryokan in Hakone Yumoto for example. Or to a ryokan at Atami Onsen. From Atami it would be 4 to 4.5 hours by train to Takayama.

A lot of people think that changing locations every day or every other day is a bad idea. I don't agree when that is applied to traveling around Japan by train - and the travel is generally in short hops (preferrably less than 3 hours, definitely under 4 hours).

I'll assume you are giving up a second night in Yamagata in favor of a night at a stop midway between Yamagata (Oishida) and Takayama. I recommended Tokyo or Nagoya on the other thread. Better may be Atami or Hakone as I mentioned above.

Your trip is:
Apr 30, Hakodate - Oishida, 8 hours
May 1, Oishida - someplace, 4 hours
May 2, someplace - Takayama, 4 hours
May 3, Takayama
May 4, Takayama - Kanazawa, 4 or 5 hours by bus (worth it)
May 5, Kanazawa
May 6, Kanazawa - Miyajima, 5 hours
May 7, Miyajima - Kyoto, 3 hours

That's your rail travel; notice it is 8 days. Kanazawa to Kyoto is about two hours. Kanazawa to Kyoto via Miyajima is 8 hours. So spending the night on Miyajima costs you about 6 hours of train (and ferry) travel.

If you want to visit Hiroshima then you should do it while you are in the neighborhood. You pass thru Hiroshima enroute to/from Miyajima. You can stop at Himeji on the way or go from Kyoto.

For example, go from Kanazawa to Hiroshima, arriving in the evening. Visit Hiroshima Peace Park the next morning and then go over to Miyajima that afternoon. Stop at Himeji on the way from Miyajima to Kyoto.

Looks like you'll definitely need a 14-day JR Pass if you add Hiroshima to your plan.

mrwunrfl

Actually, rather than blowing big holes into both May 1 and 2 by travelling 4 hours (or more) each day, you might want to just bite the bullet and have a long Yamagata to Takayama trip on the 2nd.

jmsvss

I really appreciate your insight. I know that middle week is kind of crazy. The craziness started when my husband expressed an interest in a traditional ryokan with a hot spring and we gave up the Sapporo leg of our trip. My husband rarely expresses an interest so I want to try and make him happy without killing him with the travel! I'm grateful to have 6 nights in Tokyo and 7 nights in Kyoto and either side of this week.

As you suggested, I am going to look into changing the Yamagata days for Hakone (ryokan with hot spring). Flying from Hakodate to Tokyo would make this a gentler day.

mrwunrfl

Are you planning to hang around Hakodate for the three days or are you going to see more of Hokkaido? Noboribetsu Onsen is an onsen town where you will find traditional ryokan. This is closer to Sapporo. Not far from Noboribetsu Onsen, but closer to Hakodate, is Toyako.

Flying from Hakodate (or Sapporo) is a good idea. I believe that you can fly nonstop from Hakodate (certainly from Sapporo) to Nagoya.

Nagoya is at the southern end of the Takayama Line that you will take to get to Takayama. Between Nagoya and Takayama is the onsen town of Gero.

In Takayama, the only onsen (hot springs) bath is at the Green Hotel. The bath is open to the public. The Green Hotel is a large Japanese tourist hotel.

From Takayama to Kanazawa you will take buses. Stop at Shirakawago for several hours or, better, stay overnight in a gassho zukuri farmhouse. This is not an onsen town.

Would you use the gender separated public baths or would you require a private place to soak? Or would you use both?

jmsvss

mrwunrfl, you have been most kind and patient with your suggestions. I am seriously looking at your suggestion of flying to Nagoya. There is only one flight that leaves Hakodate at 3:15 and arrives in Nagoya at 5:25. We would stay in Nagoya and then travel to the Gero Onsen the next day. Yunoshimakan Ryokan looks interesting. I looked at Hakone but could not get a response from the ryokan I was interested in. Also, considering the holiday week I thought the crowds would be less in Nagoya that Hakone - but that is a huge assumption on my part.

Regarding baths - this will be a first experience for us both. I think we will try both.

mrwunrfl

Nagoya has over 2 million people. The greater Nagoya area is said to have 11 million. Gero Onsen is the onsen getaway town for Nagoya. Like Hakone and Atami are for Tokyo/Yokohama, I suppose.

You might try JTB for help with bookings. http://www.jtbusa.com

I stayed at a hotel in Gero. It had a rotenburo on the first floor and another bath on the top floor with a view around the town. This was a tourist hotel and not a ryokan. There was a driver with a van waiting for my train who took me the short distance to the hotel.

I mentioned that because I was thinking of the 30-minute taxi ride that you would have for the place in Yamagata-ken. Besides the time for the ride, the cost would not be cheap.

For Hakone, you take the JR train to Odawara and another train or bus to Hakone Yumoto. It is not real easy to find but there is a shuttle that stops near the train station and goes out on a route to several onsen ryokans within a mile or two of the station. This shuttle is free.

So, you'd like to find a place that will pick you up from the station.

All ryokans are going to have a soaking bath available to guests. This might be an onsen - hot springs - geothermally heated underground water piped up. Or, I think some places might have geothermally heated water that didn't come from a spring. Or it would have a tub with hot water.

The last kind is what Sumiyoshi has. Just a tub large enough for one or two people in a separate area of the ryokan. It is shared, sequentially, by guests without refilling. Sumiyoshi also has shared bathrooms.

Momijiso on Miyajima has private bathrooms. This includes a tub which you fill (with hot water, I believe it is not geothermally heated and not hot springs). But the provisions of an onsen bath are there: the faucet, bucket, stool to use for washing before getting into the hot tub. There is also a shower above the faucet.

A traditional ryokan in Nagasaki had a wooden tub that was filled with hot water when I arrived. Planks across the top of the tub to keep it warm, but also a faucet in the tub.

At an onsen, you might find a large area with several pools of hot springs water and maybe a Japanese sauna (an oven! really). This kind of onsen, even if attached to a ryokan, will be open to the public.

The point of all of this is that you can find a traditional ryokan (or one that is not traditional) that doesn't have it's own onsen bath (or maybe it has a little one), but you can use the onsen at a neighboring place.

mrwunrfl

Yunoshimakan looks nice. Multiple stories but it still rates as "traditional". The honkan, main building, looks plenty tradtional. The place has indoor and outdoor shared hot springs. Private baths, I assume. Also has a bath that can be reserved as a "family bath". Nice woodsy surroundings. Pick up service from Gero train station.

Check-in time is 2PM, so I'd be arriving from Nagoya on the limited express train at 1:34PM.

jmsvss

This is my refined itinerary based upon the helpful response of many of you. We deleted the entire northern "leg" of our original plan. We also added a day to our Tokyo "leg."

Day 1-8 Tokyo with possible day trips to Kamakura, Hakone, Yokohama or Nikko

Day 8 Depart to Nagoya

Day 8-11 Nagoya with possible day trip to Kiso, Ise

Day 11 Travel to Yumoshimakan Ryokan(1.5hrs on JR)

Day 12 Travel to Takayama (through Shirarakawago)

Day 12-13 Takayama - We have reservations at a ryokan the first night and Rickshaw Inn the second night. I would like to arrive in Takayama by three.

Day 14 travel by train or bus to Kanazawa

Day 14-16 in Kanazawa

Day 16 travel to Miyajima (5.5 hours on JR)

Day 16 overnight at Miyajima- Kinsuikan Ryokan

Day 17 travel to Kyoto (2.5 hours on JR- possibly stop in Hiroshima)

Day 17-24 Stay in Kyoto with possible day trips Hiroshima, Himeji Castle, or Nara

Depart from Osaka

hawaiiantraveler

wow, much, much better and you'll be able to enjoy and soak up more of what you are seeing. I could definitely do this trip. I should take this advise myself in April and cut down some of my stops......nahhhh

We will be in Japan some of the same times as you are....maybe we'll cross paths on the shinkansen,lol

Aloha!

mrwunrfl

Interesting. That is a big change.

Before, Nagoya was just a stop for the night enroute to Takayama. Now it is a base. I did this once, going to see Ise Jingu one day. Going to Gifu and Inuyama another day (to see the castles). I would have liked to spend a couple of days in the Ise area. Also would not have minded to stay over in Inuyama. Besides the castle there was a nice garden with a teahouse. And a hotel that I stopped at for a soak and for lunch. But Ise would definitely be worth some time.

If you go up the Kiso Valley, then are you planning to walk the Nakasendo? I haven't been up there but I believe that what you would see in Magome and/or Tsumago is much of what you would see in Takayama.

Your day 12 is not correct. You won't go thru Shirakawago to get from Gero to Takayama. You go thru Takayama to get to Shirakawago.

Gero to Takayama is only 44 minutes on the fast train and 61 minutes on the local.

You'd take a non-JR bus from Takayama to Kanazawa via Shirakawago. The bus station is right next to the train station in Takayama.

I recommend traveling from Kanazawa to Hiroshima and spending the night in Hiroshima. You can go out that evening, maybe take in a ballgame. Next morning, visit the Peace Park and then go over to Miyajima in the afternoon.

kja

Hi, jmsvss -

Sounds like a great trip! If you do decide to stop in Hiroshima, it really makes sense to do so just before or after your stop in Miyajima. It is very close to Miyajima - much closer than from Kyoto.

Hope that helps!