I love your response! I’m really not inclined to visit the monkeys and I imagine it’s too touristy anyway, so I’ll leave it be. With that in mind, I don’t know that the extra stop in Nagano makes sense.

I’m looking to consolidate more of the trip and will mull it over a bit more, but think I’m close.

So I discussed this with my husband, M, who would prefer to travel at a slower pace and accepts we won’t be seeing everything but will enjoy the experiences we do have. I’m consolidating what you all are suggesting and keeping it slow but still have a chance to explore where we can.

For now (itinerary # 16 on my list!)
Tokyo - 6
-Day trip to Kamakura
Matsumoto - 3
- possible day trips to Narai, Kamikochi
Okuhida - 2
- one full day exploring onsen towns, possible visit to Kamikochi
Takayakma - 4
- Hida folk village or Shirakawago
Kanazawa - 4
- possible day trip to Noto peninsula
Nara-2
Kyoto -5

Much as I’d like to see even more, our style is go slow and take our time. We aren’t planning to rent a car. And complicated trips or long trips between locations aren’t going to work for us. So this is my slow plan that gives at least a range of experiences.

Looks like it should do what you want.

Thanks! Though I’m afraid it also sounds like damning with faint praise!

I know we’ve restricted our trip a lot with our limitations and I wish we were younger and didn’t feel the need to slow it down so much, but that’s where we are these days if we want to travel.

At least you are traveling. I've been grounded since 2018, just very glad I got so much travel in when I could. Looks like I may be able to get out there again, perhaps next year, but I'm pretty sure I'll be traveling slower for shorter trips - no more multi-month RTWs, I fear. And really, that itinerary looks fine, just a bit longer than I would choose in Takayama and Tokyo

I’m glad to hear you’re almost ready to travel again! That’s great news. Honestly, long trips far away are harder and harder because of aging/health issues and exponentially higher rates for travel so our future plans, I suspect, will be different.

Thanks for your thoughts about Tokyo and Takayama. I’m sure we won’t have a hard time filling 6 nights in Tokyo and, if Takayama is as charming as people say, I think we’ll enjoy a longer stay there, too. I’m not sure where I would move that day if we stayed one less day in Takayama.

Going by what you've written about not wanting to move hotels all that often and imagining dragging luggage around, I'd just do Nara as a day trip from Kyoto. It's less than an hour by train. If Nara were in between Kanazawa and Kyoto, then it might make sense, but it's past Kyoto, on another line, so why not just stop in Kyoto, get settled into your hotel, spend a day or two there and then go to Nara on day 3 or so?

Thanks, progol. I am an object lesson in the value of not putting travel off until "later". I didn't care much for Tokyo, and didn't go back on my second trip, but lots of people feel differently. You could always add a day trip to Nikko if necessary.

Thanks, Jean,
It’s definitely a consideration. I included it as a separate stop since many have recommended it as a smaller/quieter place to stay before the intensity of Kyoto. But if I do that, where might I add the extra day without adding another stop?

My only other thought is to do as you suggest, and taking a day from Takanawa, add one more stop. But not sure where. Nagano after Tokyo and before Matsumoto? And again, my husband would prefer to keep the number of stops down.

>> where might I add the extra day
what extra day? As you have it you wake up in Nara, visit Nara, sleep in Nara. Other way is wake up in Kyoto, visit Nara, sleep in Kyoto. My answer to where you would add an extra day would be Hakone.

>> Nagano after Tokyo and before Matsumoto?
Was thinking about that order. One answer would be that it depends a bit on where you stay in Tokyo because of the rail options. Nagano first fits with the rest of your plan. If you go Matsumoto -> Nagano then to avoid backtracking your next stop would be Takayama via Toyama and you could continue on to Okuhida area the same day. Or daytrip to Okuhida from Takayama Or go up there from Takayama for the two nights which could be in the middle of the Takayama stay or at the end.

- possible day trips to Narai, Kamikochi
Kamikochi as day trip from M is back. I had suggested that but backtracked after realizing that it was longer than I thought. Am not sure I got it right, sorry. Can you find and post the travel times between the triangle of Matsumoto, Kamikocki, and Hirayu Onsen and between Takayama and those places? Kamikochi can be a nice stop on the way from Matsumoto to Okuhida if the timing is right and I think it is.

Narai-juku looks nice. This link mentions you can take a limited express and then change to a local train to get to Narai. That train connection might just mean crossing a platform, or it could be the same track or worst case take a bridge to another platform.
Narai Town - Kiso Valley Travel (japan-guide.com)

Like you, we travel slow. Our first trip to Japan was very similar to yours and I loved it. You have a nice mix of cities, small towns and countryside. The only question I have is 4 nights in Takayama. I guess if you do a day trip to some place that would work. We stayed 3 nights during a festival and found that to be fine. I may not have been as taken with Takayama as others seem to be. I liked it though.

Reversing Nara and Kyoto would save you an extra train when coming from Kanazawa.

Nagano would be along the way between Tokyo and Matsumoto as you say, but it would be just as easy with a single train from Tokyo to Matsumoto.

What about throwing the rest of your additional days to Tokyo or Kyoto, if you want less stops? There are plenty of day trips you can take from both. From Tokyo, you could go to Yokohama, Mount Takao, Chiba, etc. From Kyoto, you could get to Lake Biwa, Kobe, and Himeji, to name a few.

You could also journey west of Kyoto and end your trip with a couple of nights in Okayama, which is on the shinkansen line, or Naoshima, which would be very different from the other places you're visiting.

Naoshima would definitely be different. It seems complicated to get there or have I missed something?

I haven't done it myself, but from my research, it would be Kyoto to Okayama via shinkansen, train to port, and then ferry to Naoshima.

Yes, that is what I found when I looked for our last trip. Thanks!

I envy the length of your stay in Takayama, a beautiful city with a rushing river going through it. We enjoyed taking a Hida Cooking class there.
As far as Hiroshima, I didn’t think I would like it but did enjoy it. The huge emphasis on peace and omnipresent cranes as symbols of peace are my best memories.

Hi, all,
I really appreciate all your suggestions and am getting a bit overwhelmed! I don’t have the time to address all the questions, but wanted to mention some of our thoughts.. There are so many places that we’re not going to see, but we do accept that these are our limits.

Some of the places that sound great, like Nikko or Hakone, are not easy to travel from and on to the next destination in our itinerary without multiple changes and a lot of extra time. These also are (for us) not likely day trips for us. I looked at travel from Nikko to Matsumoto and there were 4 changes(!) over 4+ hours. Nope, not realistic. So I scrapped that.

We end our trip flying out of Itami, and I’d prefer to go to the airport from either Kyoto (60 minute airline shuttle) or Osaka (30 minute airline shuttle). Ending in Nara was actually a nice idea (thanks, tripplanner , though it does add extra time at the end which makes me reconsider that. So going to Okayama and Naoshima (which looks great, by the way) is probably more than we can do. We’d also prefer longer time in smaller towns so staying more time in Kyoto or Osaka is less appealing.

The one place I’m considering is Koyasan and only because there seems to be a seasonal bus that goes directly from Kyoto. If this still runs, but it’s not clear if it is or will be, it would make it doable to go there. As the trip back to Osaka looks pretty convoluted, I would actually consider returning to Kyoto for a last night or 2. This is something I’m still exploring but, if it’s as easy as it sounds, I think this would be great to do at the end of the trip. Probably just before peak color, too, but we’d probably see some nice color.

https://en.visitwakayama.jp/plan-you...t-highway-bus/

I was surprised that you thought Nikko too difficult for a day trip, but then I remembered that easier access to Nikko was one reason for staying in Asakusa, Fortunately, turned out that I liked Asakusa.

It’s not a difficult trip to Nikko from Tokyo, but it is a 2-hour train trip each way. For us, that’s more than we like to spend on a day trip. When I considered it as the next place to visit, I the found the trip contininuing on to Matsumoto to be difficult, with multiple changes and a time of over 4 hours.

But Asakusa is still a place that sounds interesting to stay. I just checked and we arrive in Haneda at 3:20pm, so even if it takes a while to go through the immigration/customs process, we’ll have more than enough time to get to a hotel at a reasonable hour.

Four hours is my daily travel limit based on lessons learned. I could go up to five hours if I felt it necessary. Otherwise, the plan has to change.

Navitime has an option to sort by Fewest Changes.

For fun, I took a look at Hakone Yumoto to Matsumoto and Navitime kept coming up with multiple transfers and 4 hr 3m travel time, but I knew there was a 1-transfer route (change from Odakyu to JR in Shinjuku). Sorting by fewest changes found that route and it was 4h 35m (and who wants to change railways in Shinjuku). But the shorter route was 3 min too long, anyway.

There is a JR Limited Express Nikko train from Tobu Nikko to JR Shinjuku. At least there was but I could not find it with Navitime. It runs/ran on weekends only and is all-reserved seats. Nikko was overrun in Nov 2019 with the line to see Tokugawa starting at the bottom of the steps of very long climb. This location, for a daytripper, would contribute to being templed out. Would have loved it 20 years ago.

Navitime for Matsumoto to Kamikochi came up with bus/walk routes but the walking part was 2 hours! IDK what I did but next time I tried that search it did not let me use Kamiikochi as a destination. I even tried it in a different browser but same result.

Jourdan is better than Navitime, I think. It found Spacia Nikko No.#4 (For Shinjuku) 1 h 56 m, limited express with no change of trains for tomorrow afternoon (from Tobu Nikko). It also has a sort by #transfers. But, best route to Matsumoto is via Nagano anyway 3h 57m with three transfers! Any way you go is going to be over 4 hours. Jourdan did find Kamikochi routes.

Jourdan only shows 5 results but you can advance by 30 minutes at a time.

I miss hyperdia.