India--My husband was leery, but I think I have convinced him...
Jan 1st, 2012, 02:44 AM
#41
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Make a separate trip report, Clark.
Don't waste your powder hidden deep in another one of julies' posts... this gem-to-be deserves a place of its own.
As a matter of interest, who chose the travel agency? Why?
Don't waste your powder hidden deep in another one of julies' posts... this gem-to-be deserves a place of its own.
As a matter of interest, who chose the travel agency? Why?
Jan 1st, 2012, 03:04 AM
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Looking forward to your trip report then ClarkB, as I haven't been yet so I'm totally unbiased...
I plan to spend six weeks in India, visiting some of those places you are not enjoying right now, but with a few hopefully less full on places thrown in between...
You are definitely throwing a different light on things anyway...
And I'll be sure to choose a tour operator carefully!
BTW our accommodation will be mostly 3* heritage hotels and they look fine (well from here anyway)...
I plan to spend six weeks in India, visiting some of those places you are not enjoying right now, but with a few hopefully less full on places thrown in between...
You are definitely throwing a different light on things anyway...
And I'll be sure to choose a tour operator carefully!
BTW our accommodation will be mostly 3* heritage hotels and they look fine (well from here anyway)...
Jan 1st, 2012, 03:31 AM
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Ah, great, dogster is back to rip into me for not turning into George Harrison all of a sudden...
The agency mishap was just poor communication on our end - I was so busy in the last few months that I did nothing with it, and the agent's itineraries were late in coming and light on details - failing to point out the drive times, for instance. Fortunately we caught the car-size problem in time to correct it, after some robust email exchanges with our agent. But overall, we just dropped the ball in conducting research on who to use.
The agency mishap was just poor communication on our end - I was so busy in the last few months that I did nothing with it, and the agent's itineraries were late in coming and light on details - failing to point out the drive times, for instance. Fortunately we caught the car-size problem in time to correct it, after some robust email exchanges with our agent. But overall, we just dropped the ball in conducting research on who to use.
Jan 1st, 2012, 04:08 AM
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I'll take that reply as meaning that <i>you</i> chose him.
lol lol lol.
Three wise things came immediately to my mind:
'You get what you pay for...'
'Caveat Emptor...'
'There's a sucker born every minute.'
Not that any of these refer to you of course, my friend.
I can't think why they popped into my head.
The rest of it will be a doddle. You'll be swallowed into the digestive tract of Rajasthan tourism, to emerge with a plop at the end.
lol lol lol.
Three wise things came immediately to my mind:
'You get what you pay for...'
'Caveat Emptor...'
'There's a sucker born every minute.'
Not that any of these refer to you of course, my friend.
I can't think why they popped into my head.
The rest of it will be a doddle. You'll be swallowed into the digestive tract of Rajasthan tourism, to emerge with a plop at the end.
Jan 1st, 2012, 05:24 AM
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Can't wait for the full TR, Clark. If it's any concilation, we "enjoyed" India much more once we got home, looked at our photos and appreciated the fabulous sites that we saw. After a 4 year hiatus we've decided to return to see southern India, although I never thought that would happen while we actually were touring India. You are right about it being difficult travel with long distances between some places, but what you get to see is worth it IMO. However, I think 3 weeks of touring southern India will be enough to make me want to return home... to view my photos.
Jan 1st, 2012, 07:26 AM
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Clark--Please please do a separate report because as Dogster rightfully points out, this isn't the best place for what you have to say. But, I can definitely see why you decided to tag it on here since I had queried about whether or not to go to India.
Jan 1st, 2012, 06:00 PM
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Hi Clark,
Thanks for the feedback. Count me as one who loves India, but also aware of of its some of its many pitfalls, and likes "knowing what to expect."
We lucked out--the ride from New Del Airport to Agra was 4 hours, but relatively easy. No fog (just lots of construction dust) and most of the traffic was headed the opposite direction (toward New Delhi).
Carobb, re taking train from Del to Agra: Agra preferably should be be overnight--the Fort there is fantastic. then you can get up VERY early and head to Taj Mahal before the day-trippers from Del arrive. I've said it before, and saying it again
Clark, i hope you are staying at a good place in Agra--you deserve a break!!
If not already booked--try the ITC Mughal. The kids will love lolling about on the raised platform rest area in the room.
Thanks for the feedback. Count me as one who loves India, but also aware of of its some of its many pitfalls, and likes "knowing what to expect."
We lucked out--the ride from New Del Airport to Agra was 4 hours, but relatively easy. No fog (just lots of construction dust) and most of the traffic was headed the opposite direction (toward New Delhi).
Carobb, re taking train from Del to Agra: Agra preferably should be be overnight--the Fort there is fantastic. then you can get up VERY early and head to Taj Mahal before the day-trippers from Del arrive. I've said it before, and saying it again
Clark, i hope you are staying at a good place in Agra--you deserve a break!!
If not already booked--try the ITC Mughal. The kids will love lolling about on the raised platform rest area in the room.
Jan 1st, 2012, 06:10 PM
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oops..pressed "send" too quickly. Plus, ITC MUghal has lots of lawn area for kids to run around.
Julie, IMHO, it may be a mistake to plan on getting up early and driving from Bharatpur to Agra. Don't "underestimate" Agra. You 've written that you're not big-time into Forts, (I think you said that? ?) and neither am i, but Agra Fort really is fantastic, especially IF you have a great guide who makes the marketplace areas, king's audience area, jewelry hiding places, etc, "come alive" for you. Like you, i am spending a night at Bharatpur (see another post) in a nearby rural area.
Thursdays, thanks for the enthusiastic tip about the park--i am not a "birder"but the setting of the park itself sounds lovely!
Clark, Happy New Yr, thanks for the reality check (a good forum needs to hear it ALL) and my sincere wishes that the trip gets better for everyone!!!!!!!!
Oh, how I wish you'd have taken me up on your offer to act as Auntie/Chaperone to your family!!
Julie, IMHO, it may be a mistake to plan on getting up early and driving from Bharatpur to Agra. Don't "underestimate" Agra. You 've written that you're not big-time into Forts, (I think you said that? ?) and neither am i, but Agra Fort really is fantastic, especially IF you have a great guide who makes the marketplace areas, king's audience area, jewelry hiding places, etc, "come alive" for you. Like you, i am spending a night at Bharatpur (see another post) in a nearby rural area.
Thursdays, thanks for the enthusiastic tip about the park--i am not a "birder"but the setting of the park itself sounds lovely!
Clark, Happy New Yr, thanks for the reality check (a good forum needs to hear it ALL) and my sincere wishes that the trip gets better for everyone!!!!!!!!
Oh, how I wish you'd have taken me up on your offer to act as Auntie/Chaperone to your family!!
Jan 1st, 2012, 06:20 PM
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I just re-read many of the posts here. Great advice from Marco, about Kerala (I'm getting hungry) and warnings of fog delays at airports (worst at this time of year). and YES, seeing a tiger in the wild even from a distance, sunbathing by a lake (Kabini Dam) was pretty amazing!!
Jan 1st, 2012, 06:48 PM
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honestly i can't imagine taking a kid to india for longer than about 3 days, most of which would be spent by a lux pool..
india requires lots of study, reading, rethinking, checking and still mistakes are made. it remains one of the most unbelievable places in this world.
india requires lots of study, reading, rethinking, checking and still mistakes are made. it remains one of the most unbelievable places in this world.
Jan 2nd, 2012, 01:48 AM
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Well, it only took seven days, but I am starting to see the (Inner) Light, as it were. After a miserable travel day yesterday, we reached the comfort of the Gateway Hotel in Agra, which, while not the luxe surroundings of the Oberoi, is a nice hotel, with comfortable rooms, a great shower, excellent food, and even a view of the Taj Mahal (although that subjects you to the noise of the street all night, especially the incessant horn-honking, what must be the national anthem of India...)
The fog miraculously lifted early this morning and we got to see what is unquestionably one of the wonders of the world, in my not so humble opinion, the Taj Mahal. It was not too crowded, we spent an easy ninety minutes marvelling at the icon, and had a very informative guide, from the same agency we booked with. Add me to the chorus of those who say, to anyone coming to India, this has to be on the list. No question about it.
We later visited the Agra Fort, and it is worthwhile if you're in the area. It's not the Alhambra when it comes to detailed decor and Islamic architecture, but it puts the Taj Mahal (literally and figuratively) in good perspective and commands great views across the old empire.
Our friends WERE staying at the Oberoi, and it's fantastic, but I wasn't about drop $3000 on two nights lodging, as they would not fit four of us into a single room. No worries, the Gateway is fine. But having even less tolerance for travel hassles than I do, and despite being impressed with the Taj, they've had enough of the 5-hour road trips and booked themselves a flight out of Delhi tomorrow. So we're on our own to Jaipur. I had been tempted to join them, but seeing the Taj did improve my mental state, and it seems both the agency service and the lodging are trending upward from what we experienced in Kanha and Jabalpur. It was clear that the owner understood our concerns and has his local staff doing their best to take care of us, so that's a positive sign.
The kids have been great, very little complaining, but they are both troupers with a fair amount of world travel. We gave them some idea what to expect with the poverty, begging, etc., but then again, we're not out walking the streets much, which even our agency reps do not recommend.
So on to Jaipur from here...
The fog miraculously lifted early this morning and we got to see what is unquestionably one of the wonders of the world, in my not so humble opinion, the Taj Mahal. It was not too crowded, we spent an easy ninety minutes marvelling at the icon, and had a very informative guide, from the same agency we booked with. Add me to the chorus of those who say, to anyone coming to India, this has to be on the list. No question about it.
We later visited the Agra Fort, and it is worthwhile if you're in the area. It's not the Alhambra when it comes to detailed decor and Islamic architecture, but it puts the Taj Mahal (literally and figuratively) in good perspective and commands great views across the old empire.
Our friends WERE staying at the Oberoi, and it's fantastic, but I wasn't about drop $3000 on two nights lodging, as they would not fit four of us into a single room. No worries, the Gateway is fine. But having even less tolerance for travel hassles than I do, and despite being impressed with the Taj, they've had enough of the 5-hour road trips and booked themselves a flight out of Delhi tomorrow. So we're on our own to Jaipur. I had been tempted to join them, but seeing the Taj did improve my mental state, and it seems both the agency service and the lodging are trending upward from what we experienced in Kanha and Jabalpur. It was clear that the owner understood our concerns and has his local staff doing their best to take care of us, so that's a positive sign.
The kids have been great, very little complaining, but they are both troupers with a fair amount of world travel. We gave them some idea what to expect with the poverty, begging, etc., but then again, we're not out walking the streets much, which even our agency reps do not recommend.
So on to Jaipur from here...
Jan 2nd, 2012, 06:21 AM
#53
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Hey Cali--
My intent is to get up early from Bharatpur and drive to the Taj. Then, we'd see the fort after that, thus making it more of a day trip. We just wouldn't physically stay in Agra.
Clark--
It is interesting to hear that even your agency doesn't recommend that you go wandering out on the streets by yourself. Is this just in Agra, or is it their recommendation for India in general?
It has been so interesting to see how your viewpoints are slowly starting to change over the course of your trip, but you have definitely given me pause and reconfirmed that my plan to start out in the supposedly more easy-going south is the way to go to reduce culture shock. Otherwise, I am afraid we might have a replay of my husband's blow up after we were stopped by the police in Krakow at 10:00 pm (after we drove up through the mountains from Vienna in the dark and rain, both big no-nos). We'd been trying unsuccessfully for over an hour to try to figure out how to get to our hotel in the inner walled ring of Krakow, and on the third loop around my husband thought he'd finally figured out how to get to the hotel. The slight problem that led to us being stopped by the police was that we were going the wrong way on the one way street around the city's main square. Then, when the police (none of whom spoke English, French or German) told us to follow them, we had no idea if we were being taken to the police station for an arrest. Instead, they led us to our hotel. But, at that point, my husband blew up and said something to me to the effect of you can stay if you want, but I'm going to the airport for the next flight home becaue I have had it with this hassle, and I want to get the f... out of here! We've made at least a dozen very enjoyable trips to Europe after that, so I hope you are on the upswing with your travels in India........
My intent is to get up early from Bharatpur and drive to the Taj. Then, we'd see the fort after that, thus making it more of a day trip. We just wouldn't physically stay in Agra.
Clark--
It is interesting to hear that even your agency doesn't recommend that you go wandering out on the streets by yourself. Is this just in Agra, or is it their recommendation for India in general?
It has been so interesting to see how your viewpoints are slowly starting to change over the course of your trip, but you have definitely given me pause and reconfirmed that my plan to start out in the supposedly more easy-going south is the way to go to reduce culture shock. Otherwise, I am afraid we might have a replay of my husband's blow up after we were stopped by the police in Krakow at 10:00 pm (after we drove up through the mountains from Vienna in the dark and rain, both big no-nos). We'd been trying unsuccessfully for over an hour to try to figure out how to get to our hotel in the inner walled ring of Krakow, and on the third loop around my husband thought he'd finally figured out how to get to the hotel. The slight problem that led to us being stopped by the police was that we were going the wrong way on the one way street around the city's main square. Then, when the police (none of whom spoke English, French or German) told us to follow them, we had no idea if we were being taken to the police station for an arrest. Instead, they led us to our hotel. But, at that point, my husband blew up and said something to me to the effect of you can stay if you want, but I'm going to the airport for the next flight home becaue I have had it with this hassle, and I want to get the f... out of here! We've made at least a dozen very enjoyable trips to Europe after that, so I hope you are on the upswing with your travels in India........
Jan 2nd, 2012, 03:12 PM
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Clark--soooo glad it is better now!!!
You are lucky that the fog lifted! Were you able to see sunrise at Taj Maha? While people speak of this as something marvelous, the fog and/or haze often interfere with it.( "sunrise" color was a sort of diffuse pinkish haze when we were there, not those stunning colorful streaked-sky one sees in photos).
Julie, re wandering about on streets and in towns: I can only speak of my experience, which was "no problem." anywhere , anyb place except one little town in Kerala where our driver warned us not to leave hotel gated grounds (River Retreat, Cheruthuruthy) after dark, as the road nearby was for "toddy" (strong liquor) sellers, and people often got drunk)think your first stop in Mysore?? A lovely city to wander round, tree lined colonial-era streets, a main shopping street,spice market etc--you can even cross a street without too much fear (just keep walking--the cars will stop for YOU--follow what everyone else does--o/w you will be stuck, petrified, in one spot in the middle of the road!) We stayed at the Metropole, in a great location , loved it, old colonial place , gorgeous .(There is also Greens as i know you prefer "heritage " but it is less convenient location)
And "after dark" applies in general, anywhere you go (in the world). Personally, after a day of wandering, sight seeing, etc we were glad to veg out and ate most dinners in the hotels.
You are lucky that the fog lifted! Were you able to see sunrise at Taj Maha? While people speak of this as something marvelous, the fog and/or haze often interfere with it.( "sunrise" color was a sort of diffuse pinkish haze when we were there, not those stunning colorful streaked-sky one sees in photos).
Julie, re wandering about on streets and in towns: I can only speak of my experience, which was "no problem." anywhere , anyb place except one little town in Kerala where our driver warned us not to leave hotel gated grounds (River Retreat, Cheruthuruthy) after dark, as the road nearby was for "toddy" (strong liquor) sellers, and people often got drunk)think your first stop in Mysore?? A lovely city to wander round, tree lined colonial-era streets, a main shopping street,spice market etc--you can even cross a street without too much fear (just keep walking--the cars will stop for YOU--follow what everyone else does--o/w you will be stuck, petrified, in one spot in the middle of the road!) We stayed at the Metropole, in a great location , loved it, old colonial place , gorgeous .(There is also Greens as i know you prefer "heritage " but it is less convenient location)
And "after dark" applies in general, anywhere you go (in the world). Personally, after a day of wandering, sight seeing, etc we were glad to veg out and ate most dinners in the hotels.
Jan 2nd, 2012, 10:24 PM
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Re wandering the streets, I don't think it's a safety issue at all - everyone we've encountered has been friendly and helpful (though often trying to sell something or get money). I think the advice was more about not getting lost, hassled too much, or stepping in all the piles of mud, muck, human and animal waste, the mountains of trash everywhere - or just getting hit by a car, truck, tuk-tuk, or oxcart. It's good advice!
Re the TM, I got a few sunrise shots from our hotel window in the early morning, when it was a lovely pinkish shade. But we arrived at the gate at 9:30am, so the color had already changed. Not to worry, it is stunning nonetheless. And we were lucky for several reasons - the sky was mostly clear (foggy again this morning), and it was not very crowded on a Monday. The guide said on Sunday Jan 1 they had 50k people there, a 2-hour wait in the queue to get in. So try to go on a weekday, I guess.
Re your husband, as noted, I had some idea of this from seeing Mumbai. If he hasn't, rent Slumdog Millionaire, make him watch it, and ask, "are you up for this?". There are some fascinating sights, but an unbelievable amount squalor to get through to see them.
Re the TM, I got a few sunrise shots from our hotel window in the early morning, when it was a lovely pinkish shade. But we arrived at the gate at 9:30am, so the color had already changed. Not to worry, it is stunning nonetheless. And we were lucky for several reasons - the sky was mostly clear (foggy again this morning), and it was not very crowded on a Monday. The guide said on Sunday Jan 1 they had 50k people there, a 2-hour wait in the queue to get in. So try to go on a weekday, I guess.
Re your husband, as noted, I had some idea of this from seeing Mumbai. If he hasn't, rent Slumdog Millionaire, make him watch it, and ask, "are you up for this?". There are some fascinating sights, but an unbelievable amount squalor to get through to see them.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:59 AM
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Clark--
Enjoying hearing about how your trip is progressing and going better. Yes, we've seen that movie, so he has some idea of what we're in for.
lcuy--Yup. Same husband! The above-mentioned incident in Krakow was probably the low spot of all of the traveling we've done (and, we've done a lot). At least in Krakow he could sit down and relax with a couple of beers after the incident and de-stress; doesn't sound at though in India the beer will be as readily available. LOL
Enjoying hearing about how your trip is progressing and going better. Yes, we've seen that movie, so he has some idea of what we're in for.
lcuy--Yup. Same husband! The above-mentioned incident in Krakow was probably the low spot of all of the traveling we've done (and, we've done a lot). At least in Krakow he could sit down and relax with a couple of beers after the incident and de-stress; doesn't sound at though in India the beer will be as readily available. LOL
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:41 AM
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Taj Mahal is magical once you see it in reality..not in photos, although, it looks good on photos too............but the real thing is mesmerising. If there is only one place to see in India...it will be the Taj, any day.
Jan 4th, 2012, 11:39 PM
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Some further advice for Julies - we are completing the 5-hour Jaipur-Dehli drive before our flight home. It's worse than the Agra-Jaipur run (which was divided 4-lane highway much of the way), but better than the awful Delhi-Agra drive (each was about 5-6 hours). Also, we had two 3+ hour drives to and from Kanha park. The important thing is that we did not stop to eat lunch on any of these drives. There were a few rest-stop type restaurants, but they were seriously gross. They make a rest stop on I-5 outside of Bakersfield look like the Cordon Bleu. So the lesson is, if you're like me and get really grumpy if you miss a meal, bring boxes and boxes of powerbars, granola bars, nuts, whatever. That and bottled water have been our lunches for half the trip because of all these damn endless drives. You can buy some snacks on the road, mainly Lays potato chips and biscuits (cookies), but they're not as substantial as protein bars.
