The Mandarin is still a great hotel in a great location, but their pool is pretty small. (It's the pool I believe they have always had on the top floor, perhaps you remember it.) You can do laps in it with a <i>lot</i> of turning. The Landmark’s pool is a better size for laps (although I can’t quite believe it is 18 meters, but by way of comparison I would say that the Mandarin’s is about half that). I belong to the health club at the Landmark and used to belong to the Mandarin so know both pool/gyms pretty well. Both have good spas and gyms, although the Mandarin has the Kinesis pulley weight training system rather than any weight machines, if that makes any difference to you. (They do have some free weights.) The Landmark has yoga classes, but you don’t have to be a guest or even gym member to go to those in any event. Both are in a good location, and are quite close to each other actually. I don’t know that I would pick a hotel strictly for the pool. Note that rooms at the Landmark have absolutely no views, as the hotel is surrounded by tall office buildings, and in some cases you will be looking right into the office of the person not too far across the street from you. The rooms are quite interesting, very modern, the L450 rooms are quite small IMO, the L600 are a better size, most are corner units, very good use of space, is a junior suite that feels more like a one-bedroom suite. Staff is pretty good, they are young and IMO not quite as well trained as the Mandarin, but they are going for a different demographic. They have, however, improved enormously since opening about a year ago.

At the Mandarin, they have two styles of room, one is a somewhat masculine wool/rattan room done in tans and creams called the “Tai Pan”, and the other is a bit lighter in green and white and more feminine style called the “Verandah”, this latter style room has a very nice sitting area at the window with a big lounge chair good for relaxing and which IMO gives the room a larger feel. Rooms are a bit tight space-wise with a lot of furniture in them, but quite plush. The electronic gizmos in the room are really something, they are the only hotel with HDTV. A harbour view room would be good, or one with a Chater Garden view would also work too, IMO.

It is quite possible that if you stay at the Mandarin you would be allowed to use the Landmark Mandarin pool (as the hotels are owned and operated by the same company), you could certainly ask when making a reservation at the Mandarin. That might combine the best of both. The Landmark Mandarin is literally a block from the Mandarin Oriental. It would be possible to walk via elevated pedestrian walkways between the two (via 2 shopping malls) so even in bad weather you could do it in robe and slippers (not that you would want to do that in broad daylight or anything).

I have to say that the Four Seasons pools are great (they have 2), really large and nice views. They are outdoors, but are heated. But I guess if you just want to do laps, once you get into it and start swimming, the outdoor temp may not bother you so much. However, if you want to swim at night, maybe not so much fun. But their rooms are much larger than the Mandarin’s.

The Kowloon Shangri-La has an indoor pool, I have never seen it and don’t know about size. I have never been a fan of this hotel because of its location (just that tad outside walkable convenience in TST, nothing really in the neighborhood), but has nice harbour views (which I caution may be covered in fog in March) and certainly the Shangri-La people run very nice hotels. Perhaps you can find out about the size of their pool.

You can still always look at The Salisbury, which has an indoor Olympic size pool. For less money, their suites would offer great views, of course not as plush as places like the Mandarin, Landmark or Four Seasons.

Cicerone you are a treasure!

Here is the scoop:

Mandarin Oriental pool is 10 meters and two lanes. (This is too small for lap swimming, although they do have one of those "endless pool" machines to allow you to swim against the current.) Guests cannot access the Landmark pool.

Four Seasons:

"With regards to your inquiry, this hotel has two outdoor pools available for guest use; a free-form infinity-edge pool and a lap pool.

The Infinity Pool is available year-round and is heated. Both pools are also equipped with speakers so swimmers can enjoy music. "

The site says pool is open every day until 10pm. You are correct about me not caring about the air temperature, within limits.

A check revealed that temps range from 50 to 68 during March. Sound about right? WE will be there around the third week of the month.



I realize that it is a little crazy to choose the hotel for the pool; thanks for bearing with me!

I will take a look at YMCA. I would have preferred HK island location, though. Do you think the YMCA pool is packed with non-guests, though?

No pool for EKS. It's just another reason to procrastinate.

BTW, during the summer, pandas go swimming in Walden Pond. It allows me to work on both my physical and metaphysical well-being.

I think those temps are right; I think daytime temps can sometimes be a few degrees warmer, and it is muggier too which may help it feel warmer. I will also say that let us try to be <i>optimists</i> about March. I was away for about 3 weeks this past March, and while I was here it was crappy, and I understand that while I was away the crappy weather mostly continued; however I am told that the weekend of March 13-15 was absolutely beautiful, sunny, warm weather. So we do have those days too. Let us hope that you get them during your visit.

For the Salisbury YMCA, I would say yes, the pool may have many non-guests as the pool is, to the best of my knowledge, the actual YMCA pool. It’s not the hotel’s pool alone. The YMCA is located in the same building. So any member of that local YMCA could use the pool at the same time. In March I would hazard a guess that it is unlikely to be really crowded, and on a weekday even less so. It’s winter after all. We don’t do summer sports in winter. In winter we wear heavy coats and eat warming foods -- even if it is 70 F. On a sunny day in March the beaches are not used (there are no lifeguards in fact on duty). You will probably just have people wanting to exercise, or perhaps the odd swim class. But I am certainly with you in preferring the Hong Kong Island location, and the Four Seasons is a far, far nicer hotel than the Salisbury. You really can't compare the two. If you go with the Four Seasons, go for as high a floor as you can get (assuming you have no height issues). I actually think that the Peak view rooms offer quite an interesting view, but they aren't water views.

Cicerone: Many thanks, again. (Notice that I am deliberately ignoring the post prior to yours)

I am going to push for staying at the Four Seasons, since it appears to be less expensive (!!) than the Landmark. I am really interested in trying to snag these mythical corporate rates. Is there anything else I can do to get these, other than pester a contact who works for a large brokerage house? Can someone sign up their own company or business and get them, too? Are they usually less than the rates a TA can get?

Too bad for me about the weather but I am really excited about returning to HK after about 20 years! When the time comes closer I will be barraging you, and everyone else here, with food-related questions! Just the thought of all those fabulous places to eat is making me crazy!

About the Shanghai-Hong Kong train--should I assume that this is the same situation I faced 2 years ago with the Beijing-Shanghai overnight train--that I have to wait until a few days prior to buy tickets? The best train appears to run only every other night. I should metnion that the train trip is high on the list of priorities for my friends; it was the thought of taking the train that got them interested in adding Hong Kong to the plan.

Eks,

I think they are cheaper than what a TA can get. For example(from my memory):

Metropole, Hanoi = $150
Beverly Wilshire, Beverly Hills = $280
Four Seasons, Las Vegas = $150
Peninsula, NY = $200
MO, Chicago = $200

Just divert money from your secret covert slush fund into a anonymous account with a private bank and they will help!

eks - The direct Shanghai-HK train only runs every other day. On the day it doesn't run, alternatives are Shanghai-Guangzhou or Shanghai-Shenzhen, and then transfer.

You should be able to get the tickets as soon as you get to Shanghai. Doesn't need to be just a few days prior.

Rkk, thanks! But will there still be tickets, do you think, when we arrive in Shanghai, which will be about 4 days before the intended departure date?

I am hoping to take the direct train so we do not have to change stations. We can plan around the departure date, but I do not think that those dates have been posted yet. Please correct me if I am wrong; the sooner I find which days the train runs, the quicker I can begin planning that part of the trip.

Hanuman: I have tried that tactic already; there has been an interception. We need someone to volunteer to track down the briefcase with the cash and return it to the slush fund. ASAP.
Jack is unavailable.

Those rates are AMAZING!!!!!!! But I don't have a private bank. Do you think a stockbroker could help? Can I form my own company and call them and ask for the corporate rate? Does anyone want to join my company? (I can just see it now:

Ekscrunchy, Managing Director and CEO
Mr. G. "Furry" Panda, VP
Mr. Hanuman (one name only), Roving Agent in Charge of Finance and Pool-Temperature maintenance

Why am I not surprised that EKS has appointed herself Managing Director? I'm pretty sure that even if she was a lowly VP, as am I, she would be bossing everybody around anyway. It's in her DNA. Just remember, uneasy is the head that wears the crown (or something to that effect, Don will correct this.) As long as she gets the drift. "Furry", not. The fur would not fit well into the speedo.

I hereby apply for a seat/stool/foot-stool even on the board of directors of the newly forming company referenced above. $150 for the Metropole and $200 for the NYC Peninsula?! Oh, to think of it...

It's usually not a problem to get soft sleeper tickets other than during major holidays, as the cost is similar to flying.

Eks,

If I'm in charge of finance the new company will be broke before it get started! As the commander in chief of the company's swimming pool do I have to clean up the furs from Gpanda after he take a swim?

On a more serious note, I don't think you can just apply your company for the corporate rates. The bank that I use does use a lot of the rooms at the major cities of the world and hence they get a special rate.

Good luck!

Corporate rates are based on volume and are negotiated by companies, it’s not just every run- of-the-mill company that can get one, you have to demonstrate that you have or can provide volume. (Of course these days, there aren’t a lot of brokers staying at the Four Seasons or elsewhere….) Our visitor arrivals are down 21% from last year, and luxury hotels have been the hardest hit here, but they are the most reluctant to drop rates as it looks bad (they would rather sacrifice occupancy to hold their rate), so some suggestions would be to: (1) work directly with a reservations person AT the hotel and do not go through the Four Seasons 800 number or reservations website, actually call the hotel and get the name of a reservations person and deal with them; (2) rather than trying to get a lower rate, ask for things like free breakfast, airport transfers, spa treatments, free internet or other perks like club access even though you aren’t on a club floor. Those can save you money overall. Breakfast, airport transfers and free internet could save you a bunch really. (The hotel is attached to a big mall, however and you could easily go out for breakfast, but free at the hotel is certainly nicer.)

For the trains, I have not taken the HK- Shanghai so can’t really offer advice. Once you settle on a hotel and get nearer the date, they may be able to give you advice and help as well. No major holidays in March so you should not be running into a situation where you have to book way in advance.

Thank you, Cicerone!

Of course, as newly appointed CEO I should have no trouble snagging the corporate rate. But in case I do, I will ask the Merrill, Lynch person, since has has lost me a lot of money and never come through with the Yankee tickets I have been asking for for years. And I will deal directly with the hotel reservations person. These are excellent tips.

Hanuman: You cannot simply decide to fulfill portions of the position and ignore the less appealing tasks. That should be obvious to a seasoned agent such as yourself.

On a related note: We will be holding training sessions for new staff in Bangkok next February. One of the planned events will be a lunch at Chote Chitr where we can observe how truly professional service people treat their clients. (For example, when a clueless customer attempts to wash her hands in the bathroom sink, scream at the top of your lungs in a really crabby voice: "Do not wash your hands in the bathroom sink!!!!!!!!! Bathroom sink not for washing hands!!" Make sure all other clients, and passersby within 33 feet of the entrance door, can hear you!!! Tips like that will be discussed at the meetings, so block your calendar).

Marya: I am sorry but we cannot personally answer all applications here. We will consider your request. Thank you for considering the Ekscrunchy Company.

Rkk: Many thanks! As soon as I know the Shanghai hotel I will begin pestering them about the train tickets, but I will keep in mind that I cannot actually get my hands on them until arrival in Shanghai.


Everyone should begin to prepare for another long, meandering, and boring thread about the merits of various Bangkok hotels, and the specifics of their swimming pools.

Time to revisit the topic of Hong Kong hotels with swimming pools open in March!!!!

I would love to stay at Four Seasons--is there any way other than phoning Hong Kong that I can get the name/e-mail of the reservations person at the hotel?


The Royal Garden in Kowloon seems to be MUCH less costly. A fraction of the Four Seasons price. I know the location is not prime, but is it decent? Their pool seems to be open in winter and i will confirm by contacting them once I get the approval to go ahead by our resident experts!

Best of all would be to get some kind of discount at the Four Seasons--I am seeing prices around $4500 on their site, without breakfast!

Have you tried Agoda? I used them quite a bit. Their rates are really good.
http://www.agoda.com/asia/hong_kong/...ons_hotel.html
The location of the Four Seasons can't be beat, actually anywhere in HK central is good. If you don't mind paying, stay on the HK side.
Royal Garden is in Tsim Tsa Tsui on the kowloon side with several hotels in that neighborhood. It's close enough to the Star ferry which is a plus. It really depends on what you want to do, if shopping in the malls and inexpensive shopping is what you are looking for and all you want to do for then Royal garden is very convenient.
http://www.agoda.com/asia/hong_kong/...den_hotel.html

The spa at the Four Seasons is amazing. Worth going there. They did not have buffet breakfast last year when we were there, except in the bar with limited selection and seating. Very disappointing. Go into the shopping mall for breakfast if you can't get rate that includes it.

Thanks to you both!! Agoda was the first site I tried but they said there was no availability for my dates in March (week of March 23). they do have good rates either before and after that, so it is not a case of trying to book too soon.

I know the hotel is not booked since the hotels site will let me book.

Do either of you know how to get in touch with one of the Four Seasons Preferred Partners, or with any agent that can get a good package for me at the hotel?

Mohan: The location of the Royal Garden does not sound appealing! I've stayed on Kowloon side before (last visit was 20 years ago, however!) and would much prefer HK side.
So scratch that idea.

I did look at other luxe hotels--rates in HK are just plain high!

Elainee--was that out of the usual not to have the buffet breakfast? There is one rate that includes breakfast--I saw it on the hotel site last night--I think it was the 4500HK$ rate-will check again.

...also, please see above request seeking a way to get the e-mail of a person who actually works at Hong Kong Four Seasons, rather than the worldwide reservations office. I would like to follow up on Cicerone's advice to get in touch directly.

We just like hotel buffet breakfasts. Many 4S have them so we expected the HK hotel to have it. Did not like the one in the bar, really not worth it. Breakfast in the lobby dining room was ok, nothing special and slow. Check to see if the rate that includes breakfast is the bar or restaurant and if they have added buffet in the restaurant. fyi..the restaurant is rather small so that might be the problem. Lots of places to eat in the mall including several bagel places. But the pool and spa at the 4s are special and the views from the pool are wow!