Seattleite2

Hello! First I just wanted to say "thank you" to all of the very helpful folks on this board-- I think I will make much better use of my time in Asia as a result!

My husband and are planning our first visit to Thailand (or Asia for that matter). We will arrive at BKK Mon Nov 10 12:05 am and will depart from BKK Sat Nov 22 at 1:15 am. So we will have 12 nights/12 days.

A bit about us: we are in our late twenties, like to be active and are pretty fit, we like food (need not be fancy), we tend not to like tourist traps, we don't want to try to jam to much in (it is a vacation after all), and a mix of relaxation and activity is always a plus.

I think we would like to go to 3 areas and would like advice on where to go:

1. Bangkok

2. Some Temples/Culture:
- Chiang Mai?
- Golden Triangle?
- Siem Reap?
- other?

3. Beach for Snorkeling and Relaxation:
- east-side of Phi Phi?
- Krabi?
- somewhere near/in Phuket?)
- other?

Where should we go for culture, and what are pros/cons of each? and where should we go for beach?

Also, what would be a good itinerary? I'm thinking something like:

3 days BKK
4 days Culture
4 days Beach
1 day BKK

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Gpanda

Your breakdown by days seems perfect. You will get a nice exposure to three very different areas.

If you're interested in temples/ruins, I would go to Siem Reap. It is truly a unique experience. Unfortunately, this will add a large extra cost to your trip. Maybe an extra $1000. Airfare is expensive as are hotels.

If you're at all outdoors people, you might enjoy a trek outside Chiang Mai. You could do 2 or 3 nights in the hills and get away from tourists. My son booked a great trek with Sergeant Kai at ChiangMaiTours.com. Get him to customize a three day trek .

Mango7

Gpanda is giving you good advice but you may want to do a Siem Reap trip next time you come to SEA since there is so much to do in Thailand alone. If you want to see ruins, a good start is probably Ayuthaya in the Bankgkok area. Make sure you go out and eat street food the first night you arrive! That's really an exciting thing to do, believe it or not. You'll get a second wind once you're there. Good luck.

Kathie

I think your breakdown of days is good. Depending on exactly where you go, you might move one day, but as an overall plan, it's good.

I'd say that Bangkok is the place where you are likely to get the most "culture." There are many wats in Bangkok. I've been going there for many years and always visit some new ones I haven't been to before. In sheer drama, it's hard to beat the Temple of the Emerald Buddha and Wat Po, both must-sees in Bangkok.

Do consider Siem Reap - Angkor is truly one of the wonders of the world. Or, I would suggest Luang Prabang, but you would likely have difficulty getting a hotel there. In northern Thailand, consider either the Chiang Mai area or the Golden Triangle area.

For beach, I'd suggest PhiPhi or Krabi.

My best wishes for a wonderful trip - from one Seattleite to another!

rhkkmk

i also would not go to siem reap this time....concentrate on thailand where there is plenty to do...

culture is a hard word for me in this context....do you mean observing how people live and how things work vs. symphony, art museums, etc??

please know that after the trip from seattle you will require a day or two to adjust, even at your young age...don't underestimate it or it will ruin your vacation later in the trip...

plan to relax a day or two on arrival in bkk or go directly to the beach after arrival to relax there...

i personally feel a first timer needs 5 days minimum in bkk...two up front and 3 at the end...

so i would prefer:

2-3 bkk to adjust and get into it
4 at the beach
1 travel day to and from places total
2 days chiang mai
2 days bkk

i would consider just the beach and bkk to to allow you to smell the flowers as an alternative too...

Seattleite2

Thanks for the replies. I have refined my itinerary a lot more and was hoping to get some more feedback. I know I am trying to fit a lot in due to the extra stop in Siem Reap, but I was told this is a must see and I don't know if/when I'll be back in SEA.

Mon Nov 10: Arrive in Bangkok in the wee early morning, crash. Spend the day visiting key sites (Grand Palace/Emerald Buddha, Wat Po, Jim Thompson House). Enjoy some evening entertainment (Calypso? Tawan Dang?)

Tues Nov 11: Bike Ride -- Floating market tour with Spice Roads or Amazing Bangkok Cyclist (ABC) Tour. Fly into Chiang Mai in time to explore the night market.

Wed Nov 12: Visit Wat Prathat Doi Suthep in the am. Spend rest of day and night exploring CM and enjoying Loi Krathung festival.

Thurs Nov 13: Early morning transfer to Thai Elephant Conservation Center for 2 day Mahout training program.

Fri Nov 14: Mahout training ends around noon; pick up by All Thailand Experiences to visit countryside and hill tribes

Sat Nov 15: All Thailand Experiences to visit countryside and hill tribes.

Sun Nov 16: All Thailand Experiences; transfer to airport for early afternoon flight to Siem Reap.

Mon Nov 17: Explore Angor Wat complex.

Tues Nov 18: Fly from Siem Reap to Phuket; take boat to Phi Phi Island Village.

Wed Nov 19: Phi Phi Island Village-- relax, snorkel, kayak

Thurs Nov 20: Phi Phi Island Village-- relax, snorkel, kayak

Fri Nov 21: Depart Phi Phi Island Village in early afternoon for Phuket and catch flight to BKK. Dinner at Long Table, drinks at Sky Bar.

Sat Nov 22: Depart in wee early morning hours.

Questions:

1. General thoughts? tweaks?

2. Spice Road Floating Market bike tour vs ABC bike tour?

3. Calypso vs Tawan Dang?

Kathie

Yipes! Please reconsider. Asia lends itself best to slow travel. You've crammed so much into your schedule you won't have time to experience any of it.

First, it take a full three days to visit just the "major" temples at Angkor. There are many dozens of temples. We spent a week there and didn't come close to seeing them all. If you have anough interest to visit Angkor, stay a full three days. If you aren't that interested, skip it. It's an expensive trip for one day - and you'll feel like it was a drive-by.

You plan to arrive in Bangkok in the wee hours of the morning and then you have a full day and evening of activities planned. You might be able to do this. How do you respond to jetlag? How do you respond to hot, humid weather? It takes most people some time to adjust.

The second day bike ride is something you might really enjoy (or not, depending on your tolerance for the heat). Both Spice Roads and ABC get good reviews. Let me say that you have no where near enough time in Bangkok.

Chaing Mai is not my favorite place. The air pollution is worse than Bangkok (more particulates) and there is no public transportation, so you need a taxi or a car and driver to do annything. The night market is mostly tourist junk. It's been decades since you could buy interesting hilltribe items or even high quality crafts there. Frankly, I'd skip it. And I certianly wouldn't cut my time short in Bangkok for it.

Are you trekking in and staying overnight for your hilltribe visit? That's the only way you will get any real exposure to the hilltribes. The day trips take you to villages that are entirely oriented to the tourist trade and have little to none of their traditional lifestyle intact. Don't visit the Karen long-necked villages. It's often referred to as a "human zoo" experience.

Pause and decide what is really important to you in this trip. If mahout traning is the most important things, keep it in. (do be aware that the accommodations you'll stay in there are quite primitive) If it's not that important to you, note that it is taking up a lot of your days. Each time you change location, you'll lose most of a day (especially with the connections you're making) With the number of days you have you should have not more then three places to visit.

I have to say that I'm also surprised to see that you want your dinner in Bangkok to be at Long Table. It is western food. One of our regulars who often goes to Bangkok currently names it as his fave, but all of his favorite places have western food.

LeighTravelClub

I think that is pretty near perfect ! You will be knackered by the end of it all, but you will also be hooked.

You have only a little time for the Angkor Complex, but it will be a taster, and personally, I say go there sooner rather than later.

You say take the boat from Phuket to Island Village.......at that time of year, I believe they lay on a speedboat transfer....or do you plan on taking the ferry. Hopefully you have the speedboat, if not, enquire....it really does add a lot on to your visit if you don't have to waste sooooo much time on the ferry.

Don't know about the ABC bike tour, but, I think the floating market is well worth a visit in spite of what others may say here. I guess after one visit, you may not want to do it again, but for sure, one of the floating markets is a must ! IMO

For relax, snorkel, kayak,.....I think Phi Phi is about as good as it gets......anywhere in the world. I hope you find that too.

LeighTravelClub

I posted just as Kathie was posting and after reading her post, I agree, you have a crammed itenary. However, I stick by my original take.....you'll be knackered, but I think it's a good first visit to Thailand.

It's pretty much what we did umpteen years ago....and then came the addiction! We still look forward to the next visit, just as much as we did all these years ago.

We travel to other places in between, but, have yet to find somewhere that triggers the excitement that a trip to SEA does.

Unlike Kathie, we are not huge Bangkok fans....a means to an end really for us. We have zero interest in travelling 6000 miles to go shopping. With the west end of London on our doorstep, we can shop at home and especially for jewellery, prefer Bond St for example.

Bangkok is an exciting, vibrant city, and we always enjoy our time there, but it's best enjoyed in small doses....imo!

dogster

Awww, Kathie: Seattle and her husband are young and healthy and happy and keen - Mmmm - maybe a liddle bit stupid - but, you know, I achieved First Class Honours in Stupidity in my late twenties - so I support anybody else's attempt to achieve distinction in the same field.

We got a case of 'hungry eyes' here - and that's O.K. It's a tasting menu.

So, Seattle - go taste. Just do it all. Who cares. If you don't think you'll make it back to S.E. Asia then go grab a glimpse. [I might add that life is quite long - and maybe, just maybe, things might change... but, what would I know]

Everything Kathie says is quite correct - but, I don't think you're gonna listen... lol. Which is fine, too.

It's a first trip so in-depth analysis ain't gonna happen - it'll be a bash, whack, scramble, wowie-e-e-e, arghhhh, the elephant has soaked me! kinda tour.

'we tend not to like tourist traps'

But you ARE gonna get shown a lotta tourist crap. I'd put the hill-tribes visit somewhere in that zone. It's vile. There's another post in here about it - go there.

You ARE gonna get taken to rubbish gem shops and made to watch awful cultural shows.

OR:
these guys [All Thailand Experiences] are gonna do what they say they'll do.

1. The willingness and ability to maintain or improve the environment.
2. The ability and the willingness for proper control when visiting ethnic peoples and villages in such a way that they can continue to maintain their natural being, customs, traditions and lifestyle.
3. The ability and willingness of the tour operator to donate some profits to the people in the villages they visit and in helping protect and improve nature and the environment.

IF they do - then you'll avoid some of the problems.

ABD, re another post: WHY oh why ain't you looking at all the fantastic boutique hotels in BKK? - all under $150.

Seattleite2

Thanks for the feedback! I think we're still going to go into Chiang Mai since I'm excited about the Loi Krathung festival-- going more for that than the rest of it. And we'll skip the night market there, doesn't sound like my thing. I love animals so the Mahout training isn't going anywhere.

I am thinking about dropping the hill tribe stuff both because I don't know how to make sure it is done respectfully and so I can get 2 days back-- one to add on to Angkor Wat and one to add somewhere else. I really think 2 days in Siem Reap will be enough time for my husband and I before we get completely templed-out.

We are not really big city people, hence the itinerary that seems to give Bangkok short thrift.

I hadn't realized Long Table was western-- definitely out then! What restaurants would you recommend in Bangkok?

Any thoughts on Tawandang and/or Calypso?

I would love boutique hotel recommendations in Bangkok-- we really don't need all the fancy amenities and if it has some Thai flavor, all the better.

Thanks again!

Smeagol

I personally didnt think much to tawadang brewery but there are plenty on here who like it. Yes its very full of thais but i guess it was wayyyyyy to busy for me, although the company we were with was excellent but very difficult to speak asit sooooo loud. Think there are better places to go.

Gpanda

Loy Krathong in Chiang Mai is magical. The sky will be filled with floating lanterns. Go ahead and buy one and launch it into the heavens.

Calypso is fun for an evening.

You might enjoy the Joe Louis Puppet Theater. It's a great show and the puppeteers are artists. It's in the Suun Lum night market and you can buy walk up tickets.

Smeagol

Oooh yes Loy Krathong is CM is FABULOUS we would go back i a heart beat... am very envious

Mango7

Bangkok is a big city with with a suburban or even a rural feel in some parts.

dogster

Boutique hotels:
here are three of my faves. There another dozen I want to try.

Dream
www.dreambkk.com
Shanghai Inn
www.shanghai-inn.com
S 15
www.s15hotel.com

Loi Kratong will be fabulous. Full stop. Do you have your hotel booked tho? You mightn't be the only guys wanna be in CM for that.

Mango7

The Dream hotel lobby looks like a bad trip.

dogster

Mango - wait till you see the rooms at Dream! My favorite for extreme design is Shanghai Inn. But, I would agree - you either get it, or you don't lol.

Kathie

Just FYI, Loy Krathong is celebrated everywhere in Thailand. I always enjoy being in Bangkok for Loy Krathong, but I'm a city person.

If you aren't big city people, that may inform your choice of where to stay in CM. Chaing Mai is a huge, sprawling city. Since it doesn't sound like you are interested in much in the city itself, you might prefer to stay outside the city in the countryside. Yes, you'll need transport to get anywhere, but that's pretty much true in CM. And by staying outside the city you'll avoid the really awful traffic (no public transport makes it worse) and some of the air pollution.

For Thai food in Bangkok, a couple of my favorite places are Lana Thai at Face (very atmospheric, in an old Thai teak house), Lemongrass (another teak house, but not as upscale as Face).

As far as an evening's entertainment is concerned, I'd skip Tawandang (just not my style). We haven't made it to Calypso yet, though it's perenially on our list, so I'd choose that. It gets rave reviews from many Fodorites.

I think your decision to cut the hilltribes is a good one. And, like you said, it gives you two more days. Yes, add one to Siem Reap, and if it were me, I'd add one to Bangkok. It would be nice to have a full day back in Bangkok before you fly out. Bangkok really is both the cultural and spiritual center of Thailand.

Mango7

Hey Dogster- The rooms do look beautiful. Maybe for Songkran we'll stay there for a few nights. Never stayed on Sukhumvit before(usually either Silom or Siam) Take care