Susan_Muglich

I've been working on an itinerary for an upcoming vacation in China in either early April, 2013 or late Oct.-early Nov. 2013.

Beijing, 3 nights
3rd night, take an overnight train (so as not to lose travel time) to Xian for 2 nights
Fly to Jiuzhaigou and Huanglong for a 2 night tour
Fly to Shanghai for 3 nights
Fly to Guillin for 3 nights
Fly to Hong Kong for 3 nights

One question I have is, thinking we wouldn't get much done on day 1 in Beijing since we may not arrive until 6 pm, this leaves us just 2 days in Beijing. Would it be better to take a day from one of the other 3 night spots? It seems to me this would give us a mixture of city life, history, natural beauty, life in smaller villages and some water activities to replace the river cruise. Not as leisurely as some would like, but as long as we have 2-3 nights in most spots, my husband would be ok with this and we should get to see some diverse areas of China.

Any comments or suggestions? On the train from Beijing to Xian, I thought I had read that there were 2 bunk compartments with a private bath. Then I saw a reference to 4 bunks to a compartment.

MmePerdu

This should have what you want train-wise:
http://www.seat61.com/China.htm

kja

> this leaves us just 2 days in Beijing. Would it be better to take a day from one of the other 3 night spots?

It depends on your interests. I had 6 days in Beijing, and did not see everything I wanted to see. I had 4 days in Xi'an and didn't see everything I wanted to see. And I wasn't trying to see "city life" or "night spots" - I sought out the cultural heritage that has been preserved in and around these cities.

I agree that the seat61 site that MmePerdu recommended should have the info on trains you seek.

Good luck!

thursdaysd

I would drop Guilin or Hong Kong altogether and add the days to your first three stops.

Besides Beijing itself, most people visit the Great Wall, and aside from Shanghai itself (which I don't think is worth more than a day, i.e. two nights) you can day trip to Hangzhou, Suzhou or one of the water towns.

Ignore the Lijiang suggestion, it's too far out of the way for this itinerary.

Only certain trains carry the two-berth compartments. I travel solo, so I've always been in four-berth compartments, but I think they're fine. Don't stress if you can't get a two-berth.

rkkwan

There are quite a few overnight trains from Beijing to Xian each night, taking at least two totally different routes. Each train has different coach configurations. I'm only listing the Soft Sleeper (4 berth in a cabin) and Deluxe Soft Sleeper coaches; and I'm only listing those that arrive Xian at a reasonable time and not middle of the night. Also not listing those that make more stops and take more than 14 hours.

Most soft sleeper coaches have 9 cabins in each (36 Soft Sleeper berths, or 18 Deluxe Soft Sleepers), though some trains use double-decked coaches with a few more:

T7, T41, T151: 1 Soft Sleeper.
T231: 2 Soft Sleepers.
T55: 1 double-decked Soft Sleeper. This coach has NINE 4-berth cabins and SEVEN 2-berth cabins. The 2-berth cabins are small and are NOT Deluxe Soft Sleeper, just regular soft sleeper.
T43: 7 Soft Sleepers and 1 Deluxe Soft Sleeper.
Z19 (non-stop): 13 Soft Sleepers and 1 Deluxe Soft Sleeper.

So, if you must travel only in 2-person berths, you can only get Deluxe Soft Sleeper on T43 or Z19 (18 berths on each train); or try to get the double-decked T55, which has 14 berths in regular soft sleeper but in 2-berth cabin.

JPDeM

The train cabin that you are referring to is called the "deluxe soft sleeper". Only available on some trains and sometimes hard to get.
Beijing is the city that deserves the longest stay. It is the capital and has the most history, most museums, most culture, etc... Can hardly be done in less than 4 full days.
You could skip Xi'An or cut days a bit everywhere.
Been to both LiJiang and Venice a few times, I fail to see the resemblance.

MmePerdu

JPDeM, many thanks for the last comment. It's an absurd comparison I see from time to time and could only have been devised by a PR person who'd been to neither place.

thursdaysd

Well, it's like Venice in that it's overrun with tourists. And there are canals. But MUCH smaller canals. I agree - one of the silliest "Venice of ..." suggestions around.

spitz

We took the overnight train to Xian, we were 3 people so we just bought out the compartment, it is still reasonable.

Just remember deluxe is not deluxe by most standards, the trains are disgusting, the bathrooms are awful.

We went to Pingyao on the way to Xian, and by far that was our favorite stop. It is a walled city and we rented bikes and had a great time. We did go to Suzhou and the old section was interesting but not worth the trip from Shanghai.

It depends what you want, the new and modern or old historic, when you decide that it is easier to plan your stops. Do you want to be inside in museums, outside in te historical sites or looking at modern skyscrappers ( Shanghai).

thursdaysd

" the trains are disgusting, the bathrooms are awful."

Oh, come now, they're nothing like that bad! It does depend some on which route, but in general Chinese soft sleeper is very comfortable. See http://www.seat61.com/China.htm for photos and more info.

rkkwan

Most foreign travelers find the sleepers (including bathrooms) quite acceptable, at least for the first 24 hours of that train's journey. After that, things may deteriorate a bit. But most Beijing-Xian sleepers depart from Beijing, or not far away, that's not an issue.

JPDeM

spitz - I think he knows nothing about the deluxe soft sleepers. There are only two beds in those so if there were 3 of them they were obviously not traveling in this class of cabin.

thursdaysd

Also, you don't go to Suzhou for the "old section" (not sure where that would be), you go for the gardens!

Susan_Muglich

Thanks for everyone's input. My itinerary has been revised. I've been convinced to drop Shanghai and it now looks like this:

Friday   Leave NY
Saturday Arrive Beijing - Tiananmen Square /  Temple of Heaven Park
Sunday   Beijing - Forbidden City / Hutongs
Monday   Beijing - Day trip to Great Wall: @ Mutianyu??
Tuesday   Beijing - Summer Palace  (fly that afternoon to Xi’an)
Tuesday Xi’an - City Wall,
Wednesday Xi'an - Terracotta Warriors / Goose Pagoda tour?
Thursday   Xi'an - Muslim St/Great Mosque / Afternoon fly to Jiuzhaigou
Friday   Jiuzhaigou and Huanglong 
Saturday   Jiuzhaigou and Huanglong 
Sunday   Fly from Jiuzhaigou to Chengdu
Sunday Fly from Chengdu to Guilin - Rice Terraces
Monday   Guilin - Reed Flute Cave and other sights
Tuesday   Guilin -morning cruise boat to Yangshou
Wednesday Yangshuo - Yulong River rafting /sound/light show / West Street at night
Thursday   Yangshuo - Biking / Moon Hill / Li River raft trip or other stuff
Friday   Yangshuo to Guilin Airport - Fly to Hong Kong
Saturday   Hong Kong
Sunday   Hong Kong - Fly Home

I've also decided to drop the train and just fly to Xi'an. We've never overnighted on a train before and I'm not sure it's our cup of tea. I added a little more time in the middle from dropping Shanghai. Wondering if perhaps I should cut one day from Yangshuo and go to Hong Kong a day earlier? Would I want to do both a Li River raft trip and the Yulong rafting one? Thoughts?

I don't think Pingyao will work as it's too far away now that we're flying directly into Xi'an.

thursdaysd

I have severe doubts about your first day in Beijing. You will have jet lag. You will be in no shape for what you have planned, even if you arrive early enough for it to be theoretically possible. (Go to the Lama Temple instead.) So you really need another day in Beijing.

You should add at least the Temple to the Eight Great Immortals to Xi'an. Also, don't short change Chengdu. Aside from a morning visit to the pandas, there's the big Buddha at Leshan, some atmospheric parks and temples in town, and ditto mountains outside. (See http://wilhelmswords.com/rtw2004/ for more.)

JPDeM

I would rearrange the Beijing portion a little.
Temple of Heaven is better seen in the morning, preferable earlier than 9h30. The reason is all the retirees go to the park to do various activities so the people watching is the highlight of this place. From there head to Qianmen street.. You can walk up and down the main street then take the small streets on the west side to an area called Dashilar. You can eat in this hutong area. If you still have energy you can cross the street to Tian'anmen square and possibly the National Museum.
Day 2 start at the Forbidden city. when you come out at the north gate you can cross the street to Jingshan park and climb the hill to have a good view of the Forbidden city. then go west towards the lake and work your way north towards Houhai and the Drum Tower. A good place for dinner in this area is Dali Courtyard. Finish the evening by walking down Nanluoguxiang.
Day 3 consider going to the Summer Palace after the Wall.
Day 4 Do what you did not have time to see on previous days because you were tired or go to the Lama Temple.
I think that you have one day to many in Xi'An (I am sure others will disagree).
Don't spend so much time in Guilin, Yangshuo will be enough. No need need to go on the rivers 3 times, it will be repetitive. The best is the bamboo rafting on the Yulong. See videos of the Li river vs Yulong on Youtube.
Add whatever leftover time to HK.

rkkwan

Cut that day in Guilin. The caves are all dead and not worth your time. Use the extra day for Chengdu.

kja

> Tuesday Beijing - Summer Palace (fly that afternoon to Xi’an)

Could work - but keep your eye on the time!

> Wednesday Xi'an - Terracotta Warriors / Goose Pagoda tour?

You can visit these places quite easily on your own; no need for a tour.

> I would rearrange the Beijing portion a little....

With all due respect to JPDeM's experience and insights, the plan he outlines would not have worked for me.
- Like thursdaysd, I think planning to adjust for jetlag on that 1st day makes sense.
- "If you plan to visit the Temple of Heaven on a weekday, it might make most sense to go early in the morning." I went on a Sunday during the late afternoon, and found it full of wonderful people-watching opportunities. I don't know what it is like on a Saturday.
- It might make sense to walk through Qianmen street after leaving the Temple of Heaven on your way to Tian'anmen square, but I'm not sure I would try to do that on such a short trip: I thought the renovations of Qianmen street turned it into a Disne-fied distortion.
- I wouldn't have had time to see the Summer Palace the way I wanted to see it on the same day that I visited the Great Wall (and I went to Badaling, not Mutianyu; Badaling is closer to Beijing that Mutianyu).

I'm not saying that JPDeM is wrong - just that his proposal wouldn't have worked in light of my interests and preferences.

I do agree that climbing Coal Mountain in Jingshan Park for the view over the Forbidden City is worth it if you can fit it in!

And I agree with both thursdaysd and JPDeM that it's worth trying to fit the Lama Temple in to your time in Beijing. I visited it after my trip to Badaling.

> You should add at least the Temple to the Eight Great Immortals to Xi'an

I agree!

> I think that you have one day to many in Xi'An (I am sure others will disagree).

I'm among those who disagree.

Hope that helps!

JPDeM

As the OP is coming from NY, jet lag means waking up quite early in the morning and going to bed early in the evening. Doing morning stuff should not be a problem.
Qianmen is not about Qianmen street itself. The key place to see is Dashilar which is adjacent to it. Old hutongs and one of the oldest commercial area in Beijing. The renovated Qianmen street portion actually has a lot of Chinese restaurants with a great variety of cuisine. Again not on Qianmen street itself but the area on the east of it.

thursdaysd

Well, jet lag or no jet lag, unless the OP is flying Aeroflot, I don't see how she's getting to Beijing in time to do much sightseeing.