DiGiuseppe

Greetings!

We have booked out flights and hotel through to Chiang Mai and am now just reading this forum and hear nothing but disdain for the city. Is anyone interested in elaborating?

We are bound to these reservations, and with that in mind, would like to ask those who have visited what they suggest we see and what we should avoid.

Thank you!

Kathie

What is it that you are interested in? Where else in Thailand are you going? How long are you staying in CM? What attracted you to CM?

Chaing Mai is often touted to new visitors as "the real Thailand" small, village-oriented with craftspeople working in "crafts villages" just outside the city. The reality is that it is Thailand's second largest city with urban sprawl, lots of particulates in the air, no public transport. The so-called "craft villages" were simply factory showrooms when I first visited over 20 years ago. The famed night market consists almost exclusively of tatty souveniers. Even the Sunday walking market (which gets better reviews) is just tourist items. No longer will you find hilltribe jewelry or crafts in either place.

That said, there are a few things worth doing in CM. Doi Suthep, a wat outside the city is well worth a visit. There are a number of smaller wats in the city that I enjoy (though I've never met a wat I didn't like). The shopping in CM is ok - you can get everything you can find in CM in Bangkok. Sometimes prices are a bit lower in CM, sometimes not.

There is the Thai Elephant Conservation Center at Lampang that many people enjoy.

Kathie

Things to avoid: "hilltribe visits" unless you are willing to trek in several hours and stay overnight. Tour company specials like visits to the elephants (often not the TECC, which treats its elephants well) orchid gardens, bamboo rafting, etc. All are basically tourist traps.

DiGiuseppe

Kathie,

Thank you so much for your reply. We will be bypassing Bangkok this trip and heading to Chaing Mai for 6 days staying at the MO and then to Phuket for 6 days in March.

We chose Chaing Mai on the advice of friends who had visited Asia on a 6 month journey several years ago. They suggested we book into the MO and take the hotels cue as to cultural and historic visits. We are not shoppers by nature and had hoped that the old city would be of interest. We like to stroll around and visit museums, architectural monuments etc. But I am afraid we did not do our homework well enough as I now hear that the old city is not the historic experience we had been thinking it was. In fact, now that we have booked I cannot seem to find anything calling out a specific 'old city' section anywhere.

I too want to avoid any elephant 'farms' as the experience would depress me significantly and we do have the TEC on the itinerary.

'I never met a Wat I didn't like'
V. Funny!

Thank you for your advice on the rafting etc. My husband had hoped to book one of these trips. When you say 'tourist traps' for these types of excursions, what do you mean exactly - that they are not what the purport to be?

We also do not have an interest in the crafts villages. Thank you for confirming that it would be somewhat of a waste.

I do understand that many regard the MO as 'Disneyland', but any information you have regarding the property. We do not mind taking a few days holed up in our villa by the pool or getting spa treatments.

Any additional advice is very welcome. Thank you again!

Kathie

The classic full day excursion from CM booked through a local travel agency includes

1. a visit to an elephant center that puts on shows for tourists (You are wise to visit the TECC instead)
2. A "hilltribe" visit which is to a village you can drive to, some have a "zoo-like" atmosphere, with Karen Long-necked women on display, none of these villages have much of their traditional ways of life left, and you will be pressed to buy items that are in no way traditional crafts.
3. A visit to an orchid garden and butterfly farm. Speaking as someone who loves and grows orchids, these are a waste of time.
4. A bamboo rafting trip. You can get on a bamboo raft and float down a river a bit. If you want to do it, fine, but don't expect much from it.

I call these tourist traps because they are created specifically for tourists and have little to nothing to do with Thai or Hilltribe culture. I find the hilltribe visits outright offensive. If you are willing to do some treking and stay over night, you can visit a hilltribe village that carries on something close to its traditional way of life.

There are the remnants of a walled city at CM, there are some interesting areas to walk, but you'll likely find that you have exhausted the possibilities in a couple of hours.

Since you are all booked and don't have any flexibility, just go and enjoy. The hotel should be luxurious and the service excellent even if the decor is over the top. Spa prices I would expect to be very high. If you want an outside the hotel spa experience you might consider Oasis Spa, set in a lovely garden.

Here is a report from my last trip to CM http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34904681

Also, for photos, you are welcome to view our website www.marlandc.com

filmwill

I'm sorry that you've only been reading about the negatives of CM, Giuseppe. As with any country, folks usually prefer one place over another.

We happen to love Chiang Mai, much more so than Bangkok. I usually compare the difference to New York vs. Boston or San Francisco. I love all of them, but New York (Bangkok) is far harder to put your hands around than the others.

Personally, I find the relative quaintness of CM(others may disagree with that statement)utterly charming and welcoming...not nearly as overwhelming or overbearing as Bangkok can be. I'm more of a country boy myself, so maybe that's why I prefer it...

That said, I love all of Thailand--and I would never say there's one place I truly disliked there. I would not cancel my trip to CM if I were you--especially if you've never been there before. There's so much to see in the city...and the beautiful mountains that surround it.

StanKase

You might find a day trip, while long (12 hours with a guide) to Chiang Rai quite interesting. You will see more ruins and museums and artifacts there than CM. A guide named Poon, can be contacted through Ratt in Bangkok, who is her older sister, can arrange it for you and you can even vissit a real hill tribe on the same trip. It will cost probably $125USD for Poon with gas and her car but it is a worthwhile day. The Lampang Elephant Conservancy is really done with class and its charter is bringing injured elephants from the jungle back to health and then back into the wild. It is a trip with a guide that you can leave CM at 8:30 and be back before noon. We used Poon for 3 and i/e days. To be honest 3 full days is more than ample to see temples, do some shopping and go to Chiang Rai. There are 5-6 good restaurants in CM including the Good Earth that we eat at twice.

Kathie

Filmwill, I think you are quite right - the people who like CM are ones who find Bangkok a bit overwhelming. Both are big cities with big city problems like air pollution and traffic but also big city options. I'm not sure what you find quaint about CM, but if you have recommendations, do make them for DiGiuseppe.

(I'm surprised you think of yourself as a country boy, Filmwill - LA?)

MichaelBKK

The air quality in Chiang Mai depends on when you go. March will not be a particularly good time.

While you can wander around Bangkok's "villages" - and I do a lot - it doesn't quite compare to Chiang Mai's old city. This is a place made to be explored on foot, or bicycle. There are plenty of sights - Wat Chiang Man, the Culture Center, Wat Pan Tao, etc. - but the best part is the ambiance you feel getting from one of them to the other on foot.

I would disagree slightly about the walking streets. They attract a good deal more of the locals than the night bazaar, and have more local products, although you'll still find plenty of the tatty stuff. But, more importantly, they're street parties, with lots of food and chances to see how the locals enjoy themselves. The Saturday market in the silver village is a bit better for this than the Sunday one.

If you haven't been to Chiang Mai, then definitely go. You won't really know if it's for you until you see it for yourself.

dwitch

It is a few years since I visited CM and I have no desire to return there. I would give the butterfly and orchid visit a miss. Definately a disappointment. In my opinion one needs to travel out of C/M to find anything of real interest. I did enjoy my visit the elephant corral, most interesting.

The highlight of my trip was a trip further up to Chang Rai and the Golden Triangle, we booked our own tour for this , from a tour agency we found whilst out walking. As the other person said it is a very long 12hrs trip but I thought the long day was well worth it.

Whilst up there we had a fleeting visit to two hilltribes, I bought some lovely hand crafted silverware made by the hilltribe people.
There were a few stalls at the G/Triangle selling crafts that the hiltribe people had made.
I hope you enjoy you trip up there , have a happy holiday.

rhkkmk

i agree 110% with kathie and i have tried to lke CM on each of 3 visits...

BUT, we are the exceptions, most people love CM....not sure a stay at MO will give you a feel for CM, but the lux will be wonderful...

you might look at the 4 seasons for a couple of lazy days also..

filmwill

Don't judge a book by its' cover. I wasn't born and bred in LA--we live here mostly for our jobs. Never would I dare complain about the weather here, but I am, definitively, not a city person. Grew up in the suburbs, prefer open air, green mountains, forests, hiking, actual weather patterns and real people (all of which are fairly hard to come by here.)

I wasn't really prepared to give a list of recommendations for the OP, but just a few ideas off the top of my head:

*Try grabbing a bite at the charming Jerusalem Falafel in the Old City, run by the sweetest Israeli woman and her Thai husband (whom she met on a kibbutz in the Holy Land and speaks both Thai and Hebrew.) The food is only secondary to the warmth of really warm and wonderful people...and a very unique experience.

*Stay at a boutique hotels on the alleyways off the main drag--there's little treasures (shops and cafes) all up and down those streets. It sure beats staying at a chain hotel with no character and nothing surprising.

*Check out the night bazaar, but avoid the tourist circuit and hit up the blocks nearest the University...where the wares are mostly funky clothing/accessories and some pretty progressive artwork. Think Asian SoHo...and not what one would expect to find in CM.

*Definitely take a cooking class. The best cooking schools (at least that I've found) are up north. CM offers a bunch of great schools (A Lot of Thai, in particular) and some are run out of peoples' houses or in beautiful outdoor gardens on the outskirts of the city.

*Try taking a gander at walking up and down the main drag in Hang Dong and shopping for some dirt cheap furniture. Even if you don't buy any of the amazing stuff for sale, it's worth the experience just to watch some of the local craftspeople working on intricate hand-carved masterpieces and beautiful rattan pieces.

*For a nice out-of-town excursion, try a day at the Elephant Nature Park. It's run by an amazing humanitarian who has saved countless elephants from poachers and abuse at the hands of some of the more circus-y type elephant shows in the area. It's a truly magical experience to bathe the elephants and feed them--and become their caretakers for the day. The scenery in Mae Rim (where the camp is located) is also breathtaking!

...and these are just a few of innumerable things that make Chiang Mai much different than Bangkok. But that's just my opinion.

Best of luck figuring it out!

CFW

We liked Chiang Mai, but 6 days is a long time to spend there. You should definitely consider some day trips to surrounding areas. We used Sgt Kai based on recommendations on this forum and he was one of the best tour guides we have had anywhere. He will give you suggestions, based on your interests, and will take you to interesting non-toursity places, as well as all of the usual sights. We went to Doi Inthanon national park with him, and on the way stopped at a local market outside Chiang Mai that was really fun. Not a craft item in sight, but everything else from shoes to spices to motorcyles -new & used - being sold by their owners - and cows and goats. Sgt Kai's contact info is: [email protected]. As far as the city itself, as Kathy said, Doi Suthep, which is on a hill overlloking the city, is a major highlight, and if you like spas, Oasis spa is heavenly. We also liked the Sunday walking market, which is very festive, and just meandering around the "old City" which is a very large area (I think it must be several square miles) in the center of the city surrounded by old brick walls. There are lots of wats that you will enjoy. Get a good guide book that may have some self-guided walking routes to take.

travelingmad

Chiang Mai may be a nice break if you arrive from Bangkok.

Not too big, not too small. But it's nowhere near the "Rose of the North" it was in the early 1990's.

Try renting a car and visit the surroundings (4 years ago, we did a 4 day trip from CM to Mae Hong Son and back and loved it). There are many small villages with their very charming (and basic!) guest houses.

The TECC, the snake farm whose objective is to create antivenom, Pai and its hot springs (still nice but the tourism industry seems to be catching on...) and Mae Hong Son is a beautiful village (at least it was 4 years ago....)with its Wat atop of the mountain.

Lamphun was also a nice little village nearby, but south-east of CM.

So, even if CM has changed, I believe you can still have a nice time there, focussing on the surroundings.

Bella_Bluebell

we love Chiang Mai, probably not as much as Bangkok, but we do like it but as with all, different strokes...

Things we have enjoyed and would recommend - elephant conservation center, cooking classes with a alotofthai.com and also the Chiang Mai Cookery School, trekking in the national park (if you can do this as a one day tour and are energetic enough, def worth it, but it is hot and v steep), walking tour of the old town (we just followed a walk in one of the guide books, sorry I don't know which one and visited lots of temples), doing a thai foot massage course, doi suthep (even in the rain), trip to a local market with Sergeant Kai.

Things we didn't enjoy - 1 day tour to the golden triangle & Chiang Rai (awful - many love staying up there, couldn't comment on that, but wouldn't go on a 1 day trip - we just visited tired tourist traps and overrun hilltribe villages with people trying to sell you rubbish); also didn't like the hilltribe villages you can get to by car from CM (in contrast to those we visited after walking up very steep hills in the forest for 8 hours!).

Don't worry about the MO - I am sure you will enjoy it. My in laws very much enjoyed their stay there - the service was excellent and the rooms were beautiful.

4bams

we were there over xmas- chiang mai can really be seen in less than a day. we spent 2 days at tecc and loved the elephant camp, but it is very basic accommodation. we also hired sgt kai for 4 days. we did a fabulous walk in doi inthanon, saw doi suthep, and went on a 2 day tour to chiang rai via doi mai salong ( a chinese town way up on the mountains) we enjoyed the long boat ride down the river, and the elephant ride, as well as hill tribe villages. if you use chiang mai as a base to do some other stuff it will be wonderful. I agree that 6 days there is an awfully long time. (imo there are few cities in the world that really are worth 6 days- ok, paris, london, maybe new york, jerusalem- why not get a flavour for the rest of the north of thailand while you are there?

althom1122

Another CM fan here and another recommendation for Sgt Kai. We spent a day visiting a waterfall in the national park, a non-tourist market (probably the same one as CFW), and a hike to a hilltribe village. The hike was a highlight of our entire trip (which also included Bangkok, Mae Hong Son, Luang Prabang, and Siem Reap). It was just the two of us and one of Sgt Kai's guides. We hiked for 2-3 hours and arrived at a village without a single tourist in sight and not a single trinket/craft for sale. (It wasn't a "longneck" tribe.) If you want lots more details, my trip report is probably still here. We also visited the Elephant Conservation Camp and Doi Suthep (with Sgt Kai), and agree with the other comments that both are well worth a visit. Type Karen and Julie in the search box and the trip report should come up.

DiGiuseppe

I just wanted to post my sincere thanks to everyone on this thread who was kind enough to reply, address my concerns, and give such fantastic advice and suggestions!

You have quelled my fears and provided us with enough great rec's that I am sure our CM trip will be a success.

I will post my impressions when I return.

Thank you!

evangelina

I loved Chiang Mai so I had to put in a plug for it. I traveled from Bangkok to Chiang Mai by overnight train, and found that interesting.

We stayed at a guest house instead of a hotel and that was really what made it so special. We met people traveling from all over and people running the guest house have become friends. We've been there twice now, both times a little different. We liked it so much that the second time-we only stayed in Bkk for a few days and skipped anywhere else so we could explore the north more.

We stayed at the Libra guest house(had to purchase pillows because thiers were not very soft). We liked getting up each day to new visitors planning their trips and talking about the ones they had already taken(liked or disliked). We would then plan our day around that info. The first time we visited we took a cooking class from the GH and it was great. We went to the market with the class and learned about alot of new foods. One day we went to Doi Suthep, and then on a raft and river trip which included an elephant ride(both interesting)
each evening we'd go find a place to eat and that was fun too. Then off to the night market shopping.

On our second trip we spent even more time eating at new places and sometimes just joining the neighbors in watching movies on a big screen just down the street from our GH. We went to shows and visited a few cultural places in the area. We walked to wats and visited markets during the weekend. My husband golfed while I went to a spa. I loved getting massages, and then walking to street vendors trying new fruits. Get a nancy Chandler map. Try some of her ideas

We then hired a driver and headed to Mae Sariang where we stopped at a village and visited a silver jewelry maker,and then onto Mae Hong Son. We then caught a bus to Soppong and from there got motor cycles to the cave Lodge. I did my first caving expedition from there. We traveled in every kind of transportation imaginable on our trip. That was fun!!!

From Chiang Mai there are many other places to visit that arent too far away. That was what made it more interesting. We went on a kayak trip visiting caves. Whether traveling by boat(or Kayak)bus, train, motor cycle or tuk tuk, you're meeting people and getting to practice your Thai(you ask lots of questions about the places you see)Then we we spent the last few days back in BKK where we did lots of fun things too. The main things I didn't like were people from both BKk and Chaing Mai approaching and trying some kind of scam or to take you somewhere else(we learned to just say no and keep walking.

Thailand is so interesting and after 2 yrs I am planning another trip next year(I hope).

Smeagol

well i loved cm and i LOVE bkk. Both great places to visit, just different. Agree about doing a cookery school, we did chiangmaithai cookery school and it was one of the highlights of the trip.
Enjoy CM you are in Thailand how could you not!!!