Terry

I am leaving on a tour of China in 3 weeks. The tour ends up in Shanghai on Sept 19. I wish to then proceed to Guilin and Yangshuo (which I have learned from this message board are "must sees". I understand it is cheaper to obtain a flight to Guilin when I am in China (as opposed to prebooking from Canada). Can anyone advise as to the frequency and costs of such a one way flight. I then want to go to Hanoi to start a 10 day tour of Vietnam. Can I please get advice if I can fly directly from Guilin to Hanoi or would it be better (and perhaps even cheaper) for me to get to Hong Kong from Guilin and then fly to Hanoi?

Peter N-H

I'd disagree that Guilin and Yangshuo are "must sees", but never mind that.<BR><BR>There are flights from Shanghai to Guilin with Air China on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays.<BR><BR>Guilin has no international flights except to Hong Kong (which is still treated as international), but you'd pay considerably less to fly via Nanning, or failing that, Guangzhou. There are one or two flights a day to Nanning, and flights from there to Hanoi on Mondays and Thursdays, all with China Southern, and that will be the cheapest route. There are eight or more flights daily from Guilin to Guangzhou, and onward flights to Hanoi on Wednesdays and Sundays.<BR><BR>I've no idea of the price, I'm sorry, but it will be far cheaper and completely effortless to buy the ticket when you're in Guilin. <BR><BR>Go to an agent with a terminal on the airline system, shop around, and haggle the price down from whatever they offer first. You can buy the Guilin-Nanning-Hanoi ticket in Shanghai, too. Check availability while you're there, but it's unlikely to be a problem. You'll probably get a slightly better price if you buy it in Guilin.<BR><BR>Hope that helps.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html<BR><BR>

Terry

Peter, thank you for the excellent flight information. You have provided some very topical and helpful information on China since I discovered this message board several weeks ago.<BR><BR>I am very interested in your view that Guilin and Yangshuo are not on your radar screen as "must sees". Given your extensive knowledge and obvious experiences in China, can you please advise what you would consider a "must see" after our organized tour of Beijing, Xi'an and Shanghai? This is our first trip to China, other than Hong Kong a few years ago, and I was very intrigued to read of Guilin and Yangshuo on this website i.e. Reed Flute cave, etc. in Guilin and a Li River boat cruise to Yangshuo. We were looking at something that would give us a feel for the beauty of non-urbanized "old China". That was what prompted me to consider this as a 3 day extension to our organized tour but am certainly open to other suggestions before moving on to Vietnam and Cambodia. Your views would be very much appreciated.

cb

In my opnion, Reed Flute Cave is not really a must-see, unless you've never gone into a multi-colored lighted cave before. But the mountain views with the rice paddies we saw on the ride from Guilin to the dock and the mountain scenery from the Li River are amazing. On the trip we took, there were tourists who had just been on the Yangtse River cruise, and they were more impressed with the Li River.<BR>I did not spend much time in Yangshuo; I only remember the tourists shops as we got off the boat.

Peter N-H

As a general rule, China's most heavily promoted tourist sights are its least attractive, and least authentic. On the other hand, these are as a result the ones most easy of access, the ones with the most comfortable infrastructure, and the ones most organized tours visit, and so the ones most commented upon by people visiting this site. <BR><BR>I think one account of Guilin 'must sees' posted recently here was almost entirely misled, not least because the author seemed to have believed everything his tour guide told him. But I'd agree that the Li River cruise is a better choice than the Yangtze one, all the same--the scenery is more attractive, and the round trip, including bus back, takes up just a day rather than several. But popularity as a tourist destination simply produces fakery in China: rebuilt temples posting as old ones (across China), entirely invented buildings (the brand new 'old' palace at Yunnan's Lijiang), tawdry sideshow museums and waxworks (Xi'an and elsewhere), guides who'll tell you whatever will be most profitable to them, rapacious restaurants with different prices for foreigners, and everywhere changes which will 'enhance' in Chinese eyes the attraction of a destination (prettification rather than authenticity, new paint over the old, lights in the caves, speakers in the trees, etc.). Yangshuo would be authentic if pizza had been invented in China, but is an accidentally invented banana-pancake-eating I'm-a-traveller-not-a-tourist backpacker drop-out joint little different from Kuta, Boracay, Goa, Ubud, Kandy, etc., now trying to attract a slightly more deep-pocketed clientele. See the remark above: "I only remember the tourist shops as I got off the boat."<BR><BR>The vast majority of China is 'non-urbanised', and 70% of the populace still lives there. For every Dali, Yangshuo, and Zhouzhuang, which may as well count as urbanised since their economies now revolve around tourism above all else, there are other similar places which remain 'undiscovered', or which are like Dali and Yangshuo 15 years ago--the hip alternatives to the tourist merry-go-round and with as yet only basic facilities, but with real-life China lapping the doorstep. These will eventually go from hip to hot to 'small group adventure tour destination' to 'let's rebuild those ancient temples' to Mickey Mao's pizza and an Internet cafe in every other house. <BR><BR>Such mutated places are in a way a pleasure in themselves, but are they China? The trip to Yangshuo is certainly pleasant--I've done it twice. But it isn't, in my opinion, remotely near to being a must-see.<BR><BR>The problem with finding the authentic rural alternatives, however, is one of time. Truly rural and undeveloped places have poor infrastructure by definition, and three days is not enough to reach them and look round, especially with the need to be en route to Hanoi.<BR><BR>So given these circumstances I'd stick with Guilin-Yangshuo, which you'll probably enjoy. But next time budget a few more days and I'll certainly offer truly backwater suggestions, with their agrarian economy intact, and unrestored sights with no entrance fees.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

Todd

Thank you all for the dialog. Peter, We have about a week of available time in SE China. I am really wanting to see authentic Chinese culture. What are some of the places you would recommend? Thank you.

Terry

Peter, thank you again for a very informative response. I am highly intriqued by your reference to some "backwater suggestions" if I was prepared to surrender more than 3 days to accommodate them. The 3 days is neither committed nor inflexible at this point although extra days in China are at the expense of days in Vietnam. But if you have the time to give me some ideas to consider to see the side of China that you referenced I would most certainly give it very serious consideration. Given that the finish point on the organized portion of our tour is Shanghai, that would still be the start point for the freelance time prior to proceeding to Vietnam and Cambodia. Again thank you for the time you have extended to date to assist with our trip planning. We leave in 10 days so a response prior to that would be great.

Peter N-H

Forgive me for being brief (unusual, I admit)--I've just become a father and my attention is elsewhere.<BR><BR>I'd suggest flying down to Xiamen and getting yourself to the interior of Fujian Province to see the round houses (tulou or 'earth houses') of the Hakka people. There's very limited information about this in some guides--look for information on Yongjing in Fujian Province. Some of these are familiar with visitors and have entrance fees, but there are 30 altogether in the area and most receive almost no visitors. They are vast, circular edifices almost resembling the centres of some Tuscan hill towns, and each housing several families. Rumour has it that a US satellite once mistook them for missile silos. <BR><BR>If you want to be more adventurous, fly to Wenzhou and take a bus into the mountainous Taishun County, to visit the corridor bridges of that area--28 of them. The bridges rear fabulously over rivers, sometimes two stories high and topped with dragons. The mountain scenery is beautiful, and agrarian life intact.<BR><BR>And that's about all I have time for...<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

terry

Peter, thanks for graciously taking the time to respond again to my ongoing inquiries. I'm going to relate your references to a map this evening and see what we can do.<BR><BR>Congratulations on fatherhood - I became a Dad 26 years ago and remember well the excitement (and the exhaustion from interrupted sleep). Given that, I'm particularly grateful that you squeezed in some time to respond with some "backwater suggestions". Leaving in 10 days so I'll leave you to your new pursuits. Thanks again so very much for taking the time you did and sharing your very extensive and helpful knowledge of China. Our trip will be greatly enhanced for it. Happy journeys to you in the future.

Mike

Concerning the air port at Guilin, we were there in June. Our evening flight to Hong Kong was delayed coming into Guilin, thus we were delayed leaving Guilin. Our local guide told us that there are many times that flights are delayed in and out of Guilin. I asked why. His reply was "because of the haze" My next question was "what does haze have to do with it" His reply, " our radar is old and sometimes it doesn't work very well" After three weeks in China we learned just have a good laugh and go on. Also the airport tax to leave Guilin for Hong Kong or international flights is double the tax rate for Chinese domestic flights. Keep enough Chinese currency to pay the extra tax as you leave.

jt

Great Caesar's ghost Terry, get on the boat Guilin-Yangshuo once, twice, or three times and don't sweat the touristy aspects. It's one of the greatest landscape sights in the world, a high priority, see http://neelix.ti1.tu-harburg.de/china/yangshuo-land.html<BR><BR>The cave isn't a must, but work it in if conveient. Can be quite time-wasting to seek "authentic" cultural experiences which aren't really that accessible or satisfying - nice idea but hard to succeed at compared to a guaranteed knockout wonder of geography.

Peter N-H

Just to clarify Mike's remark above:<BR><BR>Chinese domestic flights the tax in most cases is Y50. Very occasionally for short local hops there may be special arrangements (Putuo Shan to Shanghai, for instance is only Y10).<BR><BR>For international flights (and this includes flights to Hong Kong and Macau) the tax is Y90.<BR><BR>Local cash is needed.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

terry

Thanks, Mike and Peter for the airport information and anecdote. JT, greatly appreciated your emphasized encouragement on the boat trip to Yangshuo and the website reference - photos were terrific and greatly appealing. We're going to work it in now for sure. Thankyou again for taking the time to extend that info.