Golden Temple or Taj Mahal?
Oct 11th, 2006, 07:27 PM
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Golden Temple or Taj Mahal?
We (husband and 2 daughters ages 12 & 15)are heading to India this December 15 for 3 weeks. Itinerary goes like this:
Arrive in Mumbai - one night at the Marriott
then Goa for 8 nights. Thereafter, fly to Delhi where we have made no formal plans.
My question is this - from December 25 to January 5 (when we fly back to Toronto), I wonder if I can pack in a trip to the Golden Temple AND a trip to the Taj Mahal? If so, whats the best way to get there (driver, trains, bus, plane) and how many days in both? I also would like some time to shop in Delhi. If it's too much, which one would you recommend visiting for first timers.
I assume we'll all be quite relaxed after Goa, however, my family & I aren't exactly speed sightseers. I'm concerned I'll want us to see both and then get stressed out trying to mobilize everyone to go from one place to another.
Thanks,
Sue
Arrive in Mumbai - one night at the Marriott
then Goa for 8 nights. Thereafter, fly to Delhi where we have made no formal plans.
My question is this - from December 25 to January 5 (when we fly back to Toronto), I wonder if I can pack in a trip to the Golden Temple AND a trip to the Taj Mahal? If so, whats the best way to get there (driver, trains, bus, plane) and how many days in both? I also would like some time to shop in Delhi. If it's too much, which one would you recommend visiting for first timers.
I assume we'll all be quite relaxed after Goa, however, my family & I aren't exactly speed sightseers. I'm concerned I'll want us to see both and then get stressed out trying to mobilize everyone to go from one place to another.
Thanks,
Sue
Oct 11th, 2006, 08:54 PM
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If I read your message correctly, you have from December 25 to January 5, roughly 13 days, to go to Amritsar to see the Golden Temple and then you want to go to Agra, and you also want to spend time in Delhi is that correct? I am assuming you mean the Golden Temple and not the “Golden Triangle” area of Rajasthan, which generally refers to the three cities of Jaipur, Udaipur and Jodphur. If you mean this, let me know, as that is a whole different trip. Even if you mean the Golden Triangle, with 13 days you can still do parts of the Golden Triangle, but I don’t want to write out a whole plan for Amritsar if you don’t intend to go to the Punjab. Can you confirm what you mean?
Oct 11th, 2006, 11:04 PM
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a. In about 10 days you have at your disposal for north India, you certainly will be able to do both the Golden Temple at Amritsar , The Taj Mahal at Agra & also a couple of days at Jaipur, should you want to see a bit of Rajasthan.
b. The Superfast Shatabdi train leaves Delhi 16.30 & reaches Amritsar at about 22:15. Ranjit Svaasa at Amritsar is a good choice for a heritage hotel. The Golden Temple can be visited morning to avoid the crowds of devout & after dinner you must go to see the ‘Palkhi Ceremony’ when the holy book is taken to it’s abode for rest, as if it were a living human being. Amritsar is a delightful old city & you shall love the sights, sounds & the typical Amritsari food/tea dished out by local eateries.
c. Taj Mahal, of course, is much closer to Delhi & a must-see, needing no comment. You may take an AC tempo-traveller for the purpose.
d. As you are on tour with youngsters, a stay at Bharatpur, Laxmi Vilas Palace, which has the Keoladeo Bird Sanctuary is most recommended.
Enjoy Yourself!
b. The Superfast Shatabdi train leaves Delhi 16.30 & reaches Amritsar at about 22:15. Ranjit Svaasa at Amritsar is a good choice for a heritage hotel. The Golden Temple can be visited morning to avoid the crowds of devout & after dinner you must go to see the ‘Palkhi Ceremony’ when the holy book is taken to it’s abode for rest, as if it were a living human being. Amritsar is a delightful old city & you shall love the sights, sounds & the typical Amritsari food/tea dished out by local eateries.
c. Taj Mahal, of course, is much closer to Delhi & a must-see, needing no comment. You may take an AC tempo-traveller for the purpose.
d. As you are on tour with youngsters, a stay at Bharatpur, Laxmi Vilas Palace, which has the Keoladeo Bird Sanctuary is most recommended.
Enjoy Yourself!
Oct 12th, 2006, 02:24 AM
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Cicerone,
That is correct, the Golden Temple in Amritsar not the Golden Triangle. I think Jaipur will be too much.
VP Singh - that was a most helpful reply. Where is Bharatpur, Laxmi Vilas Palace, which has the Keoladeo Bird Sanctuary? Do you recommend the Amarvilla's to stay in for one night in Agra? I keep hearing it's worth the high price.
That is correct, the Golden Temple in Amritsar not the Golden Triangle. I think Jaipur will be too much.
VP Singh - that was a most helpful reply. Where is Bharatpur, Laxmi Vilas Palace, which has the Keoladeo Bird Sanctuary? Do you recommend the Amarvilla's to stay in for one night in Agra? I keep hearing it's worth the high price.
Oct 12th, 2006, 04:22 AM
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I can't comment on the Golden Temple as I've never been to Amritsar, but I can definitely recommend the Amarvilas. It will be worth spending one night here. Note that the weather in Delhi and the northern parts of India will be chilly in December.
Goa is lovely in December, weather-wise, but a little overrun with tourists as its peak season then.
Goa is lovely in December, weather-wise, but a little overrun with tourists as its peak season then.
Oct 12th, 2006, 07:45 PM
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OK thanks for the clarification on the Golden Temple. You are one of the only posters that has asked about the Golden Temple, so I wanted to make sure. With 13 days, IMO you have more than enough time, even if your family is slow. I am usually telling people they don’t have enough time, but I think you will find you have plenty of time if all you want to see in 13 days in Delhi, Amritsar and Agra and environs like the bird parks. Agra could be used as a base for the parks, IMO rather than moving bag and baggage the 25 miles to Bharatphur.
If there is any way that you could at this point change your international flight returning home so that you could fly OUT of Amritsar on either Jet Airways to London (a great airline) or Singapore Airlines (via Singapore) and then to Toronto from either London or Singapore, that would IMO save you the time and trouble of backtracking to Delhi several times which is going to be about your only option as I see it. I doubt you can change your flights, but I mention it in case you did not realize that Amritsar has quite a bit of international air service.
As you are arriving into Delhi the morning of December 24, the first thing you need to decide is whether you want to spend Christmas in Delhi or head right out for Amritsar? The 24th and 25th are option regional public holidays in India (for example things in Goa would be closed as that is more heavily Christian), which means things like museums may be closed, but I have been in Delhi on Christmas and did not find too many thing closed actually. I don’t think you would find too many closures in Amritsar as that is of course a predominantly Sikh and Muslim region.
There is a 12:30 am flight on Jet Airways to Amritsar from New Delhi, and as you will already be at the domestic airport after arriving on your Goa flight, you might just want to keep going. I am not sure it flies everyday. Otherwise, if you decide to stay in Delhi (or go down to Agra) or can’t get the Jet Airways flight, I agree that the train to Amritsar is the best option. There are other flights to Amritsar (an Indian Airlines flight at 5:50 pm and an Air Deccan flight at 7:30 am), but what with getting out the airport, security lines and the real issue of fog in December which happens in the mornings and evenings and can really delay flights, IMO if you can’t take the Jet Airways flight you are far better off taking the Shabdtibi Express train than flying in the morning or evening.
For hotels in Amritsar, I have only stayed at the MK Hotel (http://www.mkhotel.com/), which is a bit out of town. It is perfectly fine international style chain hotel, it may not be what you are looking for (I was there on business and hung around a few days after). From my trusty Lonely Planet and Allistar Sawday guidebooks (you should get the first and definitely consider the second as well), I have pulled the following reccos, they look interesting:
Ranjit’s Svaasa http://www.svaasa.com/ - this is mentioned by VP above and does look very interesting indeed.
Mrs Bhandiri’s Guesthouse,
http://bhandari_guesthouse.tripod.com/mainpic.htm
Hotel CJ international, http://www.cjhotel.net/
I think 2 nights in Amritsar is plenty, but you could stay longer of course, up to you. With the spa at Svaasa, you may want to…
After Amritsar, what you might want to do is take the Shabditi Express back toward Delhi and then connect to a fast train to Agra (or hopefully get one train from Amritsar that won’t require a change); this should take about 9 hours, a long day, but may be the best way to go rather than stopping in Delhi first and then having to make the journey down to Agra. You could fly to Delhi and then train/drive to Agra, but door to door this is going to take you as long or longer than the train. You could then save Delhi for the end of the trip and take your flight home out of there, rather than having to rush back from Agra to connect to a flight which is a pain.
For Agra, I also agree the that Amarvilas are certainly “worth it” and it is clearly the best hotel in town; at Christmas and New Year you are going to pay even more. But there is something to be said to have THAT view all the time, and the facilities are just so far better than anything else. That being said, my second favourite hotel there would be the Taj View, which also has very good views of the Taj over the old town area which is kind of an interesting contrast to the smooth beauty of the Taj. The prices are better here, although again at Christmas you may find them steeper. Take a look at tajhotels.com. They have suites which are two rooms, but I don’t know that 2 older kids could actually fit there or would be allowed, but you may want to ask.
As you have the luxury of time, I would stay at least 3 nights in Agra and perhaps 4 depending on your train/car/flight schedule. Bharataphur and Keoladeo are two parks about 1.5 miles apart so you can go to both. As I mentioned, IMO you can do them as a day trip from Agra, they are not far, just under 2 hours each way. (The one advantage to staying nearer to Bharataphur might be to see the birds at sunrise, I am not really a birder, if this is essential to you, then you may want to stay near the parks.) There is not much else in Bharataphur and staying there for a night would not be that interesting, IMO so I personally would not move there as you will already have moved so much on this trip. You would also want to see Fatehphur Sikri, which is near to Agra as well, that is another day trip. Then within Agra there is the Taj which you want to see at sunrise and hopefully sunset (there is a sound a light show on some evenings as well) the Agra Fort, the Friday Mosque, Sikandra and the “baby taj” the Itimad-ud-daula. The old town area around the Taj and the Friday Mosque is also very interesting and virtually tout-free, worth a walk around. You could “do” this all in a day, but IMO this is better spread over a day and a half. But in winter with the cool weather you could certainly get most of it in a day. But you don’t seem to be in a rush anyway. There is also a place called the Chambal river valley which is about 2.5-3 hour drive which is supposed to be beautiful, I have not seen it.
Do you have a hotel in Delhi or any kind of budget? Hotels in Delhi are quite expensive, and you are in India at the very highest part of the high season. For Delhi, as you have so much time, you could spend 4 nights easily.
So in summary, my recco would be
Goa – Amritsar by Jet Airways via Delhi – 2-3 nights
Amritsar – Agra via fast train – 3-4 nights or more
Agra Delhi – train or car (you have enough people for the expense and if you hire a car to take you around Agra anyway you can spread the cost out), all remaining nights
IMO and as an unasked for comment, you actually have more than enough time to go up to Jaipur and could take some nights out of Amritsar and Delhi, but if you feel you don’t want to push it, then don’t. (You could train or fly back to Delhi from Jaipur). More importantly, I think the kids would love to go to Ranthambore park to see lots of wildlife including possibly tigers rather than going to the bird sanctuary. The downside of that trip is that the drive from Agra to the park is about 6 hours over not great roads. You can then take a train back to Delhi. You might want to consider this, but again if you feel it is putting too much in then you should of course do what you want.
If there is any way that you could at this point change your international flight returning home so that you could fly OUT of Amritsar on either Jet Airways to London (a great airline) or Singapore Airlines (via Singapore) and then to Toronto from either London or Singapore, that would IMO save you the time and trouble of backtracking to Delhi several times which is going to be about your only option as I see it. I doubt you can change your flights, but I mention it in case you did not realize that Amritsar has quite a bit of international air service.
As you are arriving into Delhi the morning of December 24, the first thing you need to decide is whether you want to spend Christmas in Delhi or head right out for Amritsar? The 24th and 25th are option regional public holidays in India (for example things in Goa would be closed as that is more heavily Christian), which means things like museums may be closed, but I have been in Delhi on Christmas and did not find too many thing closed actually. I don’t think you would find too many closures in Amritsar as that is of course a predominantly Sikh and Muslim region.
There is a 12:30 am flight on Jet Airways to Amritsar from New Delhi, and as you will already be at the domestic airport after arriving on your Goa flight, you might just want to keep going. I am not sure it flies everyday. Otherwise, if you decide to stay in Delhi (or go down to Agra) or can’t get the Jet Airways flight, I agree that the train to Amritsar is the best option. There are other flights to Amritsar (an Indian Airlines flight at 5:50 pm and an Air Deccan flight at 7:30 am), but what with getting out the airport, security lines and the real issue of fog in December which happens in the mornings and evenings and can really delay flights, IMO if you can’t take the Jet Airways flight you are far better off taking the Shabdtibi Express train than flying in the morning or evening.
For hotels in Amritsar, I have only stayed at the MK Hotel (http://www.mkhotel.com/), which is a bit out of town. It is perfectly fine international style chain hotel, it may not be what you are looking for (I was there on business and hung around a few days after). From my trusty Lonely Planet and Allistar Sawday guidebooks (you should get the first and definitely consider the second as well), I have pulled the following reccos, they look interesting:
Ranjit’s Svaasa http://www.svaasa.com/ - this is mentioned by VP above and does look very interesting indeed.
Mrs Bhandiri’s Guesthouse,
http://bhandari_guesthouse.tripod.com/mainpic.htm
Hotel CJ international, http://www.cjhotel.net/
I think 2 nights in Amritsar is plenty, but you could stay longer of course, up to you. With the spa at Svaasa, you may want to…
After Amritsar, what you might want to do is take the Shabditi Express back toward Delhi and then connect to a fast train to Agra (or hopefully get one train from Amritsar that won’t require a change); this should take about 9 hours, a long day, but may be the best way to go rather than stopping in Delhi first and then having to make the journey down to Agra. You could fly to Delhi and then train/drive to Agra, but door to door this is going to take you as long or longer than the train. You could then save Delhi for the end of the trip and take your flight home out of there, rather than having to rush back from Agra to connect to a flight which is a pain.
For Agra, I also agree the that Amarvilas are certainly “worth it” and it is clearly the best hotel in town; at Christmas and New Year you are going to pay even more. But there is something to be said to have THAT view all the time, and the facilities are just so far better than anything else. That being said, my second favourite hotel there would be the Taj View, which also has very good views of the Taj over the old town area which is kind of an interesting contrast to the smooth beauty of the Taj. The prices are better here, although again at Christmas you may find them steeper. Take a look at tajhotels.com. They have suites which are two rooms, but I don’t know that 2 older kids could actually fit there or would be allowed, but you may want to ask.
As you have the luxury of time, I would stay at least 3 nights in Agra and perhaps 4 depending on your train/car/flight schedule. Bharataphur and Keoladeo are two parks about 1.5 miles apart so you can go to both. As I mentioned, IMO you can do them as a day trip from Agra, they are not far, just under 2 hours each way. (The one advantage to staying nearer to Bharataphur might be to see the birds at sunrise, I am not really a birder, if this is essential to you, then you may want to stay near the parks.) There is not much else in Bharataphur and staying there for a night would not be that interesting, IMO so I personally would not move there as you will already have moved so much on this trip. You would also want to see Fatehphur Sikri, which is near to Agra as well, that is another day trip. Then within Agra there is the Taj which you want to see at sunrise and hopefully sunset (there is a sound a light show on some evenings as well) the Agra Fort, the Friday Mosque, Sikandra and the “baby taj” the Itimad-ud-daula. The old town area around the Taj and the Friday Mosque is also very interesting and virtually tout-free, worth a walk around. You could “do” this all in a day, but IMO this is better spread over a day and a half. But in winter with the cool weather you could certainly get most of it in a day. But you don’t seem to be in a rush anyway. There is also a place called the Chambal river valley which is about 2.5-3 hour drive which is supposed to be beautiful, I have not seen it.
Do you have a hotel in Delhi or any kind of budget? Hotels in Delhi are quite expensive, and you are in India at the very highest part of the high season. For Delhi, as you have so much time, you could spend 4 nights easily.
So in summary, my recco would be
Goa – Amritsar by Jet Airways via Delhi – 2-3 nights
Amritsar – Agra via fast train – 3-4 nights or more
Agra Delhi – train or car (you have enough people for the expense and if you hire a car to take you around Agra anyway you can spread the cost out), all remaining nights
IMO and as an unasked for comment, you actually have more than enough time to go up to Jaipur and could take some nights out of Amritsar and Delhi, but if you feel you don’t want to push it, then don’t. (You could train or fly back to Delhi from Jaipur). More importantly, I think the kids would love to go to Ranthambore park to see lots of wildlife including possibly tigers rather than going to the bird sanctuary. The downside of that trip is that the drive from Agra to the park is about 6 hours over not great roads. You can then take a train back to Delhi. You might want to consider this, but again if you feel it is putting too much in then you should of course do what you want.
Oct 12th, 2006, 08:21 PM
#8
Looks like the best Amritsar-Agra train is a night train - otherwise you arrive after midnight or leave at 5:25 am. Not a bad thng - the Golden Temple is marvelous, but I don't know that there's much else in to see in Amritsar, besides the run-down memorial to the 1919 massacre.
Oct 12th, 2006, 09:28 PM
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To correct my post, the Jet Airways flight to Amritsar departs at 12:30 PM (i.e. in the afternoon).
While I am not a huge fan of night trains, that is probably not a bad option for the Amritsar-Agra train, esp if one goes without you having to change trains. (I can’t for the life of me ever get proper schedules from the Indian Rail site, but maybe you can, go to indianrail.gov.in. Otherwise, if you take a night train to Delhi, you may be able to connect to one of the fast trains to Agra, like the Shabtabdi Express (that named is used a lot for trains) which departs at 6 am and reaches Agra at 8 am, or the Taj Express which departs at 7:15 and arrives at 10 am. I also should have mentioned to be careful that you are arriving and departing from the same stations, as many trains to Agra depart from Nizamuddin Station and not the New Delhi station where you may be arriving from Amritsar. You would then have to transfer stations by cab, adding more time and a bit of hassle to the journey.
Oct 12th, 2006, 09:48 PM
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Thanks!
a. Keoladeo Bird Sanctuary is situated in Bharatpur, 35 miles west of Agra, on road to Jaipur,(which is another 107 miles) & just 14 miles from Fatehpur Sikri, a monument well appreciated by all visitors to this region. The sequence of location of the bird sanctuary, on the road is: Agra – Fatehpur Sikri – Bharatpur (Bird Sanctuary) – Jaipur. The most fruitful time for a visit to the sanctuary is either early morning or two hours before sunset, when the birds are at their active best. However, morning would be bitterly cold in the month of your visit…so enjoy the bird watching & the sunset over the water, while the birds add their notes to the nature’s orchestra!!
b. You can take a rickshaw, @ Rs. 75/- per hour, from the gates, while your children can hire cycles. The rickshaw drivers are fairly good at identifying birds for you.
c. The hotel to stay at Bharatpur is called Laxmi Vilas Palace, a wonderful reasonably priced heritage property a mile away from the sanctuary. It has old world charm & all international dignitaries coming for wildfowling, stayed here, during those fairy-tale days of princely India.
d. The Oberoi’s Amar Vilas at Agra is an ‘ultimate’ to stay in. Of course, it is expensive. The other two hotels with a lot of ambience / excellent food / reasonable prices, is the Trident-Hilton & the Taj View.
Very best for your plans!!
a. Keoladeo Bird Sanctuary is situated in Bharatpur, 35 miles west of Agra, on road to Jaipur,(which is another 107 miles) & just 14 miles from Fatehpur Sikri, a monument well appreciated by all visitors to this region. The sequence of location of the bird sanctuary, on the road is: Agra – Fatehpur Sikri – Bharatpur (Bird Sanctuary) – Jaipur. The most fruitful time for a visit to the sanctuary is either early morning or two hours before sunset, when the birds are at their active best. However, morning would be bitterly cold in the month of your visit…so enjoy the bird watching & the sunset over the water, while the birds add their notes to the nature’s orchestra!!
b. You can take a rickshaw, @ Rs. 75/- per hour, from the gates, while your children can hire cycles. The rickshaw drivers are fairly good at identifying birds for you.
c. The hotel to stay at Bharatpur is called Laxmi Vilas Palace, a wonderful reasonably priced heritage property a mile away from the sanctuary. It has old world charm & all international dignitaries coming for wildfowling, stayed here, during those fairy-tale days of princely India.
d. The Oberoi’s Amar Vilas at Agra is an ‘ultimate’ to stay in. Of course, it is expensive. The other two hotels with a lot of ambience / excellent food / reasonable prices, is the Trident-Hilton & the Taj View.
Very best for your plans!!
Oct 13th, 2006, 04:55 AM
#11
Cicerone - yes, that night train is direct - in fact it is also a night train to Delhi (the Golden Temple would be better). However, it makes a lot of stops, and the best class is 2AC, so it may be noisy. Not sure why you have trouble with the Indian Railways site, for this train, click on "Trains between important stations", top left on the first page, select Amritsar, select Agra Cantt, and "any class". One problem may be that it only shows direct trains, so you have to guess at a place to change if there's no direct train.
Oct 14th, 2006, 03:02 AM
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We took an organised trip through www.travelvirus.com. The Golden Temple is woth visiting and try and go to Attari to see the Guard change at Indo- Pakistan border - one of the highlights of the trip .
cheers
cheers
Oct 15th, 2006, 05:57 PM
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Molyneux, PLEASE get a guidebook, it sounds like you don't have one. Going to the border is in all the guidebooks I have seen for Amritsar. While this site is helful, it should NOT be a subsitute for a guidebook which will give you much more background and history on things you will see; plus it will mention things that we may forget or didn't like but which may be of interest to you. Guidebooks are more comprehensive than this site could be.
Oct 17th, 2006, 07:59 AM
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Cicerone,
Did you suggest I READ up on my trip??? I thought I could fly by the seat of my pants and rely on people like yourself to give me the ultimate holiday
?? Seriously, I hear you and will go get a Guidebook. If there's one you recommend over another....it would be great.
Cheers.
Did you suggest I READ up on my trip??? I thought I could fly by the seat of my pants and rely on people like yourself to give me the ultimate holiday
?? Seriously, I hear you and will go get a Guidebook. If there's one you recommend over another....it would be great.Cheers.
