First time in Japan in November - Request Itinerary Help
Aug 16th, 2017, 08:35 AM
#21
>>Given the time ... skipping Nara altogether?
yes
>>Nara from 11/12-11/14 instead of Kyoto?
That could work.
>>If it were you, how would you spend the time...?
IDK The only knock on 2 nights Nara is the 2 evenings that would be spent there. If Nara then I'd probably go there after KK, not on the 12th.
>>11/18/2017 Take 6pm train, arrive Kyoto at 9:45pm, stay in Kyoto
From where? Earlier, you mentioned having to get a 4PM train to get to Kyoto that night. For me, I think that staying in Kii-Tanabe on the 18th is less not-good than the not-good of cutting into that full day in Kyoto on the 19th by traveling that morning. Definitely would want to stay next to Kyoto station (actually stay in Kyoto station - at the Granvia hotel).
I don't get why you went from one full day to two full days in Tokyo at the end. It must be a worthy trade based on your interests.
You could move up KK some more. Maybe go to Osaka on the 12th and then on to KK the next day. Should then be able to put the Kyoto time together after KK. [you could go from Tokyo to Kii-tanabe on the 12th. I wouldn't do that because I have a 4-hour limit on travel time in a day, 5 hours max, and that trip is over 5 hours and only a 1-night stay. Might be ok for you, tho. depart 13:03, arr 18:33]
Two half-days is less than one full day in my mind.
yes
>>Nara from 11/12-11/14 instead of Kyoto?
That could work.
>>If it were you, how would you spend the time...?
IDK The only knock on 2 nights Nara is the 2 evenings that would be spent there. If Nara then I'd probably go there after KK, not on the 12th.
>>11/18/2017 Take 6pm train, arrive Kyoto at 9:45pm, stay in Kyoto
From where? Earlier, you mentioned having to get a 4PM train to get to Kyoto that night. For me, I think that staying in Kii-Tanabe on the 18th is less not-good than the not-good of cutting into that full day in Kyoto on the 19th by traveling that morning. Definitely would want to stay next to Kyoto station (actually stay in Kyoto station - at the Granvia hotel).
I don't get why you went from one full day to two full days in Tokyo at the end. It must be a worthy trade based on your interests.
You could move up KK some more. Maybe go to Osaka on the 12th and then on to KK the next day. Should then be able to put the Kyoto time together after KK. [you could go from Tokyo to Kii-tanabe on the 12th. I wouldn't do that because I have a 4-hour limit on travel time in a day, 5 hours max, and that trip is over 5 hours and only a 1-night stay. Might be ok for you, tho. depart 13:03, arr 18:33]
Two half-days is less than one full day in my mind.
Aug 16th, 2017, 08:54 AM
#22
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Interesting, so perhaps like this:
11/10/2017 Arrive, stay Tokyo
11/11/2017 Tokyo
11/12/2017 Most day Tokyo, train to Osaka, stay Osaka
11/13/2017 Most of day in Osaka, train to Kii-Tanabe at night
11/14/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Tsugizakura
11/15/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Yunomine Onsen
11/16/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Hongu area
11/17/2017 end Kumano, take 6pm train from Kii-Katsuura, arrive Kyoto at actually 10:42pm and stay
11/18/2017 Kyoto
11/19/2017 Kyoto
11/20/2017 Kyoto
11/21/2017 Kyoto morning, train after lunch to Hakone, stay
11/22/2017 Hakone loop, stay in Hakone
11/23/2017 Train to Tokyo, stay
11/24/2017 Tokyo
11/25/2017 Tokyo
11/26/2017 Exploring most of day, leave Tokyo at 6:50PM
11/10/2017 Arrive, stay Tokyo
11/11/2017 Tokyo
11/12/2017 Most day Tokyo, train to Osaka, stay Osaka
11/13/2017 Most of day in Osaka, train to Kii-Tanabe at night
11/14/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Tsugizakura
11/15/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Yunomine Onsen
11/16/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Hongu area
11/17/2017 end Kumano, take 6pm train from Kii-Katsuura, arrive Kyoto at actually 10:42pm and stay
11/18/2017 Kyoto
11/19/2017 Kyoto
11/20/2017 Kyoto
11/21/2017 Kyoto morning, train after lunch to Hakone, stay
11/22/2017 Hakone loop, stay in Hakone
11/23/2017 Train to Tokyo, stay
11/24/2017 Tokyo
11/25/2017 Tokyo
11/26/2017 Exploring most of day, leave Tokyo at 6:50PM
Aug 16th, 2017, 08:58 AM
#23
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>> I assume the Kumano Kodo dates are fixed. Could you move all your Tokyo/Hakone time to the beginning, then do the Kumano Kodo, followed by Kyoto and Nara at the end (even better if you could fly home from KIX)?
Our reservation for the Kumano accomodations have been submitted, but I think we could cancel and re-submit if we decided to. There is one minshuku I'd really like to stay at in Tsugizakura but maybe I need to let that go.
Also, I like the idea of Hakone at the end just to top off our honeymoon/a treat for staying in less luxurious places in the first half of our trip! I suppose I can re-think that too. I figured perhaps the fall colors would also be better later in the month. Another reason for going to Hakone later.
Our reservation for the Kumano accomodations have been submitted, but I think we could cancel and re-submit if we decided to. There is one minshuku I'd really like to stay at in Tsugizakura but maybe I need to let that go.
Also, I like the idea of Hakone at the end just to top off our honeymoon/a treat for staying in less luxurious places in the first half of our trip! I suppose I can re-think that too. I figured perhaps the fall colors would also be better later in the month. Another reason for going to Hakone later.
Aug 16th, 2017, 09:04 AM
#24
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Sorry one more question - is a day trip to Nara from Osaka silly?
We could spend the evening of 11/12 in Osaka for the food scene, then take our luggage with us to Nara the next day, store luggage at the train station, explore most of the day, then go from Nara to Kii-Tanabe at night by train.
We could spend the evening of 11/12 in Osaka for the food scene, then take our luggage with us to Nara the next day, store luggage at the train station, explore most of the day, then go from Nara to Kii-Tanabe at night by train.
Aug 16th, 2017, 09:48 AM
#27
>>the fall colors would also be better later in the month
Not really. Peak colors in Kyoto on/about the 18th. Likely to see more fallen leaves than on trees in Hakone later. But that's okay, you (I) want the easy part, the 2-night ryokan stay, to be at/near the end of the trip rather than the beginning.
Not really. Peak colors in Kyoto on/about the 18th. Likely to see more fallen leaves than on trees in Hakone later. But that's okay, you (I) want the easy part, the 2-night ryokan stay, to be at/near the end of the trip rather than the beginning.
Aug 16th, 2017, 05:02 PM
#29
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When it suits, consider taking advantage of Japan’s excellent luggage forwarding option. It’s called takuhaibin; here's the info:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html)
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html)
Aug 16th, 2017, 05:08 PM
#30
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Your latest plan is pretty good. Here are a couple of random ideas. After the Kumano Kodo you could take the train up the east side of the Kii peninsular. Overnight at Iseshi and see the Ise shrines, then take the train to Nara via Iga-Ueno (ninjas, castle, Basho's birthplace). A night in Nara, then on to Kyoto (stop off at Uji to see the Byodo-in and Genji museum if you are into that). I've been to all these places and I think the train lines connect, but I haven't checked. For what it's worth, I find Nara more interesting and a lot more pleasant than Kyoto.
On the way from Osaka to Kii-Tanabe, if you don't go to Nara and you are into kawaii (Japanese cuteness, also at Meoto Iwa near Ise), you could take an excursion to Kishi on the Tamadensha to see Nitama: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tama_(cat)
On the way from Osaka to Kii-Tanabe, if you don't go to Nara and you are into kawaii (Japanese cuteness, also at Meoto Iwa near Ise), you could take an excursion to Kishi on the Tamadensha to see Nitama: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tama_(cat)
Aug 21st, 2017, 10:20 AM
#31
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Thanks for your suggestions everyone! After some deliberation with my husband over Osaka versus Nara, and given his lack of interest in intense city city, here's our latest itinerary. I'm feeling pretty good about it, and lot of that is thanks to everyone's support and suggestions here:
11/10/2017 Arrive, stay Tokyo
11/11/2017 Tokyo
11/12/2017 Most day Tokyo, train to Nara in evening, Nara dinner/sleep
11/13/2017 Explore Nara by bicycle, stay in Nara
11/14/2017 1/2 day Nara, take train to Kii-Tanabe in early afternoon, get ready for trek, stay Kii-Tanabe
11/15/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Tsugizakura
11/16/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Yunomine Onsen
11/17/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Hongu area
11/18/2017 end Kumano at Nachi, take 6pm train from Kii-Katsuura, arrive Kyoto at actually 10:42pm and stay (will be long, tiring day)
11/19/2017 Kyoto
11/20/2017 Kyoto
11/21/2017 Kyoto
11/22/2017 Kyoto morning, train after lunch to Hakone, Open Air Museum
11/23/2017 Hakone loop, stay in Hakone
11/24/2017 Train to Tokyo early morning, stay
11/25/2017 Tokyo
11/26/2017 Exploring most of day, leave Tokyo at 6:50PM
11/10/2017 Arrive, stay Tokyo
11/11/2017 Tokyo
11/12/2017 Most day Tokyo, train to Nara in evening, Nara dinner/sleep
11/13/2017 Explore Nara by bicycle, stay in Nara
11/14/2017 1/2 day Nara, take train to Kii-Tanabe in early afternoon, get ready for trek, stay Kii-Tanabe
11/15/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Tsugizakura
11/16/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Yunomine Onsen
11/17/2017 Kumano Kodo - stay Hongu area
11/18/2017 end Kumano at Nachi, take 6pm train from Kii-Katsuura, arrive Kyoto at actually 10:42pm and stay (will be long, tiring day)
11/19/2017 Kyoto
11/20/2017 Kyoto
11/21/2017 Kyoto
11/22/2017 Kyoto morning, train after lunch to Hakone, Open Air Museum
11/23/2017 Hakone loop, stay in Hakone
11/24/2017 Train to Tokyo early morning, stay
11/25/2017 Tokyo
11/26/2017 Exploring most of day, leave Tokyo at 6:50PM
Aug 22nd, 2017, 06:31 AM
#33
Looks very good.
On the 22nd your rail destination for the museum is Chukoku no Mori on the Hakone Tozan Railway. It is on hyperdia.
If you take the Hikari shinkansen from Kyoto at 12:32 then you won't get to CHOKOKUNOMORI before 15:46 and will have barely an hour at the museum before it closes at 17:00.
That timing is if you travel directly to the museum. IDK, maybe they would allow you to take a backpack in, but otherwise you will have to deal with luggage.
The 10 minute transfer time at Odawara might be enough to get ticketed or get Hakone Free Passes. Or you would have a 21-minute transfer and get to the museum after 4PM.
There is a Hikari train at 10:32 from Kyoto to Odawara.
Here is the timetable for Kyoto-> Odawara on your travel day. You only want to look at the Hikari options because the Kodama are too slow. Even Nomzomi options are not good because they don't stop at Odawara.
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/inter...chday=20171122
On the 22nd your rail destination for the museum is Chukoku no Mori on the Hakone Tozan Railway. It is on hyperdia.
If you take the Hikari shinkansen from Kyoto at 12:32 then you won't get to CHOKOKUNOMORI before 15:46 and will have barely an hour at the museum before it closes at 17:00.
That timing is if you travel directly to the museum. IDK, maybe they would allow you to take a backpack in, but otherwise you will have to deal with luggage.
The 10 minute transfer time at Odawara might be enough to get ticketed or get Hakone Free Passes. Or you would have a 21-minute transfer and get to the museum after 4PM.
There is a Hikari train at 10:32 from Kyoto to Odawara.
Here is the timetable for Kyoto-> Odawara on your travel day. You only want to look at the Hikari options because the Kodama are too slow. Even Nomzomi options are not good because they don't stop at Odawara.
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/inter...chday=20171122
Aug 22nd, 2017, 06:53 AM
#34
Tokyo to Nachi via Nara costs about ¥19,000. The return, Nachi to Tokyo via Kyoto is less. So the ballpark figure is less than ¥40,000. You can work out the leg-by-leg costs but I don't think you will get to the point where a 14-day JR Pass will save you money.
You might be able to use a discount shinkansen ticket for Tokyo-Kyoto on your way to Nara.
The JR Kansai WAP will do you some good: http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361_08.html
You might be able to use a discount shinkansen ticket for Tokyo-Kyoto on your way to Nara.
The JR Kansai WAP will do you some good: http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361_08.html
Aug 22nd, 2017, 11:24 AM
#35
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>> There is a Hikari train at 10:32 from Kyoto to Odawara.
Thanks for thinking through the train times! I didn't get to the point of mapping out each leg of our trip yet in a ton of detail (it's one of our next steps), and it's helpful to know that getting to the museum will take a little bit of add'l transportation after we land in Odawara. I'll take your advice and put a note in our itinerary to leave Kyoto by mid-morning (10am-ish) to allow enough time to get to Gora Hanougi Madoka no Mori to drop off luggage and re-orient ourselves with the trains.
>> You can work out the leg-by-leg costs but I don't think you will get to the point where a 14-day JR Pass will save you money.
I need to sit down with Hyperdia and map this out. We assumed we'd get a JR all-Japan pass for 14 days, for ease and to save money, if we could. I wonder if the JR Kansai would make more sense given our destinations?
Looking at the trip from Tokyo to Nara and Nara to Kii-Tanabe, I think there's a way for us to use mostly JR lines - the AirBnb that I've booked is at Yoyogi-Uehara station. From there, we'd take a local, non-JR line to Shinjuku, then from there get on the JR Yamanote line until reaching Shinagawa, transfer to a Shinkansen Hikari, then ride that to Kyoto, then finally get on the JR Nara Rapid Service line. That would cover us via JR pass (except for the local line to Shinjuku), right?
Are Ltd. Express Kurashio and Ltd. Express Haruka trains covered by the JR Pass? If so then I think that would take care of us from Nara to Kii-Tanabe, and from Kii-Katsuura back to Kyoto via Kii-Tanabe on the JR Pass...
It looks like getting from Haneda to Yoyogi-Uehara will take means outside of the JR (aside from us wanting to start using it on our 3rd day and not right when we land)...
Thanks for thinking through the train times! I didn't get to the point of mapping out each leg of our trip yet in a ton of detail (it's one of our next steps), and it's helpful to know that getting to the museum will take a little bit of add'l transportation after we land in Odawara. I'll take your advice and put a note in our itinerary to leave Kyoto by mid-morning (10am-ish) to allow enough time to get to Gora Hanougi Madoka no Mori to drop off luggage and re-orient ourselves with the trains.
>> You can work out the leg-by-leg costs but I don't think you will get to the point where a 14-day JR Pass will save you money.
I need to sit down with Hyperdia and map this out. We assumed we'd get a JR all-Japan pass for 14 days, for ease and to save money, if we could. I wonder if the JR Kansai would make more sense given our destinations?
Looking at the trip from Tokyo to Nara and Nara to Kii-Tanabe, I think there's a way for us to use mostly JR lines - the AirBnb that I've booked is at Yoyogi-Uehara station. From there, we'd take a local, non-JR line to Shinjuku, then from there get on the JR Yamanote line until reaching Shinagawa, transfer to a Shinkansen Hikari, then ride that to Kyoto, then finally get on the JR Nara Rapid Service line. That would cover us via JR pass (except for the local line to Shinjuku), right?
Are Ltd. Express Kurashio and Ltd. Express Haruka trains covered by the JR Pass? If so then I think that would take care of us from Nara to Kii-Tanabe, and from Kii-Katsuura back to Kyoto via Kii-Tanabe on the JR Pass...
It looks like getting from Haneda to Yoyogi-Uehara will take means outside of the JR (aside from us wanting to start using it on our 3rd day and not right when we land)...
Aug 23rd, 2017, 08:55 AM
#36
Yes, the JR Pass covers those L'ex trains in Wakayama-ken. The Kansai WAP covers all that travel too, but you would not have reserved seats.
The cost of getting a reserved seat when using the WAP would be prohibitive - would be the full "Seat Fee" that hyperdia gives. But, I would not have any problem traveling in the unreserved cars in that region.
I think the WAP could cover your bicycle rental in Nara!
There are several ways for you to get to a shinkansen station. But it is basically: subway to JR local to shinkansen station. The subway cost is cheap, like ¥170.
The JR local to shinkansen fare is also cheap, but it would be free with a JR Pass or if you purchased a ticket. That is, if you buy a ticket from Shinjuku to Nara then the cost would be the same as from Shinagawa to Nara. You'd get a separate ticket for that JR local and I think would not specify a departure station but just say "somewhere Tokyo" to Shinagawa (or Tokyo).
When you go from Gora back to Yoyogi-Uehara your best and least expensive route would not be on JR because your destination is an Odakyu station. The fare would only be ¥1500 to ¥2000 (and might be able to use a Hakone Free Pass for that). JR would cost two to three times more, so you can't really say that a JR Pass would cover a ¥4500 JR fare that you wouldn't buy in the first place (because you know you can do the trip for ¥2000).
The JR Pass does cover the cost of the monorail from/to Haneda airport, ¥490 each way, plus about ¥200 worth of JR local.
Pay as you go + Kansai WAP:
¥ 14,650 for JR local to Nozomi shinkansen to Kyoto to JR rapid train to Nara
¥9,000 for Kansai Wide Area Pass
¥12,280 for Kyoto to Odawara on Hikari shinkansen
¥2010 Gora to Yoyogi-Uehara using an Odakyu l'ex or 500 less on an Odakyu local.
That is just under ¥38,000.
The cost of getting a reserved seat when using the WAP would be prohibitive - would be the full "Seat Fee" that hyperdia gives. But, I would not have any problem traveling in the unreserved cars in that region.
I think the WAP could cover your bicycle rental in Nara!
There are several ways for you to get to a shinkansen station. But it is basically: subway to JR local to shinkansen station. The subway cost is cheap, like ¥170.
The JR local to shinkansen fare is also cheap, but it would be free with a JR Pass or if you purchased a ticket. That is, if you buy a ticket from Shinjuku to Nara then the cost would be the same as from Shinagawa to Nara. You'd get a separate ticket for that JR local and I think would not specify a departure station but just say "somewhere Tokyo" to Shinagawa (or Tokyo).
When you go from Gora back to Yoyogi-Uehara your best and least expensive route would not be on JR because your destination is an Odakyu station. The fare would only be ¥1500 to ¥2000 (and might be able to use a Hakone Free Pass for that). JR would cost two to three times more, so you can't really say that a JR Pass would cover a ¥4500 JR fare that you wouldn't buy in the first place (because you know you can do the trip for ¥2000).
The JR Pass does cover the cost of the monorail from/to Haneda airport, ¥490 each way, plus about ¥200 worth of JR local.
Pay as you go + Kansai WAP:
¥ 14,650 for JR local to Nozomi shinkansen to Kyoto to JR rapid train to Nara
¥9,000 for Kansai Wide Area Pass
¥12,280 for Kyoto to Odawara on Hikari shinkansen
¥2010 Gora to Yoyogi-Uehara using an Odakyu l'ex or 500 less on an Odakyu local.
That is just under ¥38,000.
Aug 23rd, 2017, 09:16 AM
#37
Actually, you could use a 3-day Hakone Free Pass for Odawara- museum- Gora- Hakone Loop- Odawara. http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2358_008.html
From Odawara there is an
Odakyu Odawara Line Exp. for SHINJUKU
that would get you to Yoyogi-Uehara in 90 min, with no change of trains, for only ¥830
From Odawara there is an
Odakyu Odawara Line Exp. for SHINJUKU
that would get you to Yoyogi-Uehara in 90 min, with no change of trains, for only ¥830
Sep 12th, 2017, 12:10 AM
#38
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I think this plan looks really good too! And I wouldn't skip Osaka because it is super close to Kyoto and Osaka has a bit of a different feel than kyoto and tokyo and the okonomiyaki there is delicious!!! So i would say definitely stop by, i mean you might as well because it is really close to Kyoto. But other than that I think it's a really great Itinerary! Hope you guys have fun on your honeymoon! Japan was one of my favorite trips so im sure you guys will enjoy it too!
