Burma/Craig et al help needed

Old Aug 4th, 2007, 01:46 PM
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Burma/Craig et al help needed

I think I am losing my mind planning this trip to Burma/Myanmar. who knows, maybe it's old age

Craig I keep reading and rereading your posted trip. I bought the Lonely Planet book but, your descriptions are far superior.


These 5 day markets around Inle Lake ... if you picked two, which two would you go for? And is the Taungggi/Kakku considered a MARKET trip on the 5 day market?

I am not big on driving on those bumpy roads. I am including Iaunggyi and Kakku from your post as well as someone else's ( can't recall but the person loved the Shan State. I KNOW it's really dumb to go half way around the world and not see everything ... but, after my first 20 temples, I begin to lose my mind.

I guess what I want to know is: List your your MOST memorable places ... and how long you would allot for these places ...

And, is there anyway I can get from Helo to Yangon and onto BKK IN ONE DAY? I am coming from JFk and will be going directly into Yangon .... I will probably be there two days just to recoup. Then, I am NOT going to the beach in Myanmar. I will go back to BKK and do the beach there as several people have suggested.

My trip
JFK-Yangon ( via BKK)
Yangon ( 2 nights)
fly to Bagan ( 3 nights here)
fly to Helo ( 3 nights here or 4? I do want to do Taunggyi and Kakku.
Fly to Yangon and then back to BKK ( I hope in one day)

Thoughts?
As always, you guys are great!!
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Old Aug 4th, 2007, 09:34 PM
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A few things to remember about Heho/Inle Lake/Taunggi/Kakku:

Heho airport is very strange. There's an odd luggage delivery service here - you'll be herded outside the airport to meet your guide and made to walk a distance down the road BEFORE you get your bags. Don't panic, it's normal [as much as anything is normal in Shan State]. You'll get them.

Drive time Heho to Inle Lake; about 90 mins, plus up to 30 minutes getting from there to your hotel [often by boat] - same time Inle to Taunggi - where you'll have to sign forms [take your passport - Shan State is VERY concerned about tourists behaving themselves - you'll get an additional guide to take you to Kakku - which is about another hour away through fairly uneventful coutryside. If you like hideously renovated old temples stuck in the middle of nowhere then Kakku is the place for you. Then turn round and come back the same way.

Be aware, your pick-up Shan State guide will write a detailed report on your conduct on the tour and send it to someone scary. Yes, really.

Inle Princess Resort is perfectly fine and about as good as you'll get - lousy food IMHO.

You'll be whizzed around the lake on a very noisy long boat - take earplugs, stay under umbrella all the time. You'll get sunburnt otherwise.I saw too many beetroot tourists during my stay idiotically thinking the sun wouldn't harm THEM.

They'll take you to every tourist dive from one end of the Lake to the other - some are interesting - most not. BUT there is a temple complex [unrestored this time and stunning beyond words] off down some waterway that is worth it all.

When you get to the village on stilts INSIST that your boatman turns off the motor and just glide through - taking hundreds of photos. You'll be glad you did.

An Asian market is a market is a market to me, I've been to so many of them. But if you're new to Asia then they're a blast. It'll depend on which days of the week you're staying there as to which are open.

Bagan: The BEST thing to do in Bagan is grab a horse-drawn carriage about 5.00 p.m. and clip-clop through the temples. If you get a good driver he'll know where to stop - otherwise follow your instincts and just go whever you like. As night falls go to the big temple with the 4 humongous Buddhas and wander round on your own. You'll be the only ones there.

You might enjoy the market in Bagan - again, don't just whizz in and out on a tour. Take your time. Go see the butcher and the chicken man, the fruit and the flowers, not just the souvenir stalls.

As for the sunset temple - like everywhere else in the world, this is your chance to stand in the middle of five hundred people, all perched on the same steep slope of the same temple, all taking the same picture at the same time. Be creative - by some miracle of nature that same sunset can be seen from any one of a hundred other temples, all yours to witness, alone and inspired.

Similarly the sunset cruise at Bagan; a bizarre little ceremony that occurs at dusk. Thirty boats set out in a convoy and roar up to a pre-determined spot on the river. The clump together. Boat stops and cheap champagne poured. Sun goes down. Click click click click.

The instant that sun disappears behind the mountains thirty motors start up simultaneously and thirty boats come back.

No matter what your guide tells you the villages outside Bagan you will doubtless be forced to visit are tourist show-pieces, little bits of Burmaland to make you think you've seen it.

And get used to taking your shoes off - a lot.

Yangon: Shwedagon. Again, unless you REALLY want to know everything, take your time and go off on your own and explore. Stay behind, instead of going home at sunset stay an hour longer, watch the temple transform from afternoon to night. It looks totally different under artificial light. Trust me - you'll get some stunning pictures.

Those lovely, friendly, picturesque monks hanging around, artfully posing by the temple steps, a living, breathing photo opportunity are guides - not monks - as you'll find to your cost - and disappointment.

The Strand is the place to stay. Downmarket I'd stay Traders - it's close to Scott Market, home of endless tourist tat and an easy place to change money.

It's a shame you're not going to Mandalay. There's some great stuff to see and experience there, despite what people say. But, I have to confess, the local tour operators make a very dreary tour of it all.

Heho/Yangon/BKK might just be possible but it's gonna be a looong day.




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Old Aug 5th, 2007, 04:01 AM
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We did not have a government guide in the shan state -- we did when we got to Moguk but Paul (our shan state guide) was Indian and hated the government.His family's property had all been seized by them.

I'm also someone who can get templed out pretty quickly which is why one full day (2 nights) was enough for us in bagan. We were much happier in off the beaten track villages -- Nyi Nyi, our guide figured out our likes and dislikes pretty quickly and we spent most of our time in people's homes, in villages that were NOT where the tour . We spent time in schools, we went on a ship that was being loaded with fruits and vegetables to go to china; went to see how people had to pay their bills (endless lines), went to see a few clinics. Basically didn't do a lot that is in guide books and learned more about the country and its people than I have in any other trip. The reason I loved Inle lake and the shan state is precisely because it isn't about temples/sites. It's about people. If that's your interest I would reduce your time in Bagan which was created as a tourist site by moving all the people elsewhere.
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Old Aug 5th, 2007, 09:41 AM
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Idtc -

I will try to address your questions in order:

1. We went to 2 5-day markets in the Inle Lake Area, a large one at Indein and a tiny one in the village of Samka. Several other villages hold 5-day markets but they were not being held while we were there. It would be difficult to recommend the "top two" without having done them all. We also visited the 5-day market at Aung Ban on the way to Pindaya. This was a favorite as it was large and completely devoid of tourists.

The markets in the Shan state operate on a rotating schedule. We initially chose where we wanted to go in Burma and when. The market schedules were not available at that time. Our agency later provided us with the schedule and we worked our detailed itinerary around that.

The market in Taunggyi is a permanent market which is very much worth a visit.

The markets were highlights of our tour - a great opportunity to see people going about their daily lives. The markets around Inle Lake (not Samka though) tend to be more commercial and touristy. However since they are still local markets serving local people there is much to see.

2. I didn't think the roads were that bad for the most part. If you are not that interested in temples, tell your guide. We are not big temple fans and did not feel overloaded on our tour. There are obviously many, many temples in Bagan - pick a few that interest you and then make a plan with your guide. Your guide may also have some good suggestions based on your interest.

3. The whole trip was memorable. You need two full days in Bagan. The balloon ride in Bagan should be tops on your list. The horse cart ride at the end of the day is another great way to see Bagan from a different perspective. Your guide can set it up. If you can arrange to see a Buddhist Procession like we did, that will be something you never forget. Skip the all-day side trip to Mt. Popa and Salay if you are short on time or want to eliminate some driving - the roads on that trip were some of the worst we encountered. I think if you go in with an appreciation of what Bagan was and how it got to where it is today (as alluded to by Gloria above) you will love it.

You need two full days on Inle Lake plus a day to get there from the airport - Pindaya is an interesting stop but the detour really extends the amount of driving that you do. If you stay at Inle Lake resort rather than the Inle Princess, you will eliminate the boat ride and shorten your drive to about an hour.

Aside from spending a couple of hours at sunset at Shwedagon, there is not much to do in Yangon as far as highlights go. Unfortunately, I think it will be difficult if not impossible to return to Bangkok via Yangon from Inle Lake in one day. The Savoy is a pleasant place to pass the time if you just want to chill beside the pool.

4. When you set up your itinerary, keep in mind that almost all of the flights leave (and arrive) quite early in the morning. This means that if you plan 3 nights in Bagan, you will also have 3 full days to tour. I think you can easily "do" Bagan in 2 full days so plan on staying some place (like the Aureum Palace or Bagan Golf Resort where you can just relax for 1 full day.

4 nights at Inle Lake will give you a chance to enjoy it at a leisurely pace with 2 full days on the lake and the day trip to Taunggyi and Kakku. If you understand that Kakku is reconstructed going in, you will appreciate it more. It is quite magical. You will see a pagoda field that has not been reconstructed in Indein. There are also others in the area.

Dogster is correct in that you need sun protection on Inle Lake. We were supplied with umbrellas and also applied sunscreen liberally - no problems whatsoever. We brought earplugs for the boat and they were helpful as I recall.

You will be accompanied by a Pao guide to Kakku - our Pao guide was our regular guide's niece - we were not concerned about anything being reported, even if it was. I don't know how dogster behaves as a tourist but I can't imagine any normal person having problems. If you go to Samka, you will also be accompanied by a Pao guide. A lot of suggestions dogster makes, I kind of take for granted - its your tour - tell your guide what you want. If you use Santa Maria or another agency, tell them in advance of your interests and tell your guide again what you want to do when you get there.

Hope this helps.
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Old Aug 5th, 2007, 09:42 AM
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We are two senior ladies who travelled independently to Myanmar . . . we had 12 days there, just returned Sun, July 29.

We flew (Mandalay Air) into Heho from Bagan at 9:15 a.m. We had hardly walked into the terminal when a porter snagged us and started asking for our luggage tags. We were not allowed to retrieved our own bags, the porters retrieved them, and put them in a taxi for us . . . for a small tip . . . and I mean small . . . we had 4 bags and gave him 2,000 ($1.61) and he smiled from ear to ear.

We originally wanted to stay at one of the hotels out on the lake. We had talked to a couple who stayed at one of the Golden Island Cottages ($36/w breakfast if you booked on line). There are two separate hotels named CI . . . GI I and II. One of them had just closed because of low season and the other was charging $50/double. They loved it there because they were traveling 6 weeks and it gave them some relaxing downtime. All rooms had balconies and they said the sunrises/sunsets were spectacular. But . . . it did take 30-45 min by boat to get anywhere.

At the last min, we decided to stay in Nyaung Swe (Nanda Wunn, $23/twin w/brkf) and were glad we did. Since we are not a couple (we are both married to non-traveling hubbies), we decided romantic downtown/sunsets, etc. were not for us. Plus, we like to be more in the center of things (we both have short attention spans).

I agree with Dogster, too bad you are skipping Mandalay. We liked it so much, we added an extra day, cutting one from Bagan.

I agree with him/her about Bagan, too . . . 2,000 good temples and 2,000 more in ruins are a lot 'o temples. After the first 5, they all become a blur. We had a great horse-cart driver (#123), he spoke enough English to help us around/understand and took us to all the "best" temples. He charged us 8,000 ($8) for 10:00 a.-5:30 p.

I used a lot of Craig's information (thanks Craig!) and several others here on Fodor's (sorry I can't remember all).

If you are budget travelers like us, you can finds worlds of info on the Lonely Planet's Thorntree.

We just had the best time ever (and I've been to 44 countries), the people are friendly and nice, the food is good, the sites incredible . . . this has to be the last great bargain destination.

I hope you have as great a time as we did.

Happy travels,
Sandy (in Denton)
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