hey everybody... I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseum... but I still don't feel 100% comfortable with my findings...

I had a good list of restaurants after reading numerous posts on the board, and receiving Bob's list..

But I started re-reading several guidebooks reviews of these restaurants - and almost every single review contained the phrase "while toned down for Western tastes"...

Do any Thai restaurants exist with good service, nice atmosphere, and non toned-down food??? Or is this an oxy-moron?

Does it mean to get really good, non toned-down Thai food that one has to either go to a dive, or a street stall?

I always like to have really good authentic food when I am in any country, and a nice atmostphere/service is important to us, at least for dinner.

I guess I am lucky (and a bit spoiled), being that I live in a city (NYC) where there are tons of decent quality Thai restaurants, although all are toned down for Western tastes... When in Thailand, I'd love to try the "real thing"...

Thanks again for all your help! Ken

All the restaurants in Bangkok serve real Thai food ;-)

Restaurants do typically (all of them) tone down the spice for non-natives. You can ask to have your food spicy and you can ask for some additional peppers to spice it up if it is not to your taste.

So the reviews all contain the phrase "while toned down for Western tastes" because the reviewer was western.

Thanks Kathie... I'm in the process of learning some Thai right now (the Pimsleur series is pretty good) - I wonder if I use the phrase "for non-farang" or something like that if that would help??

The only problem is that I don't know how to say that phrase - that's not something they teach you in the CDs!! haha... any thoughts???

Thanks... Ken

ask at your hotel and they will tell you how to say what ever you want...

gloria posted at the end of her trip report in the last couple of days two thai places near to democracy monument that i a sure would fill your bill for spicy, but i don't think you are really going to find a "local" place with all that much atmosphere....

there are several riverside places that at least have the river to look out onto but that would be about all for looks....

in mbk and other food halls i am sure you will find spicy but again no atmosphere....

i would follow kathie's suggestions...

try tom yam soup and you might never live to eat anything else...

I hope you are prepared for something unbelievably hot... depending upon the food item. Friends and family members who have tasted the real thing have serious tears in their eyes and no longer order it that spicy.

Yes, agree with others, you can have it as spicy as you want. Get ready...
ha ha ha.

Carol

Try sumluk khon Thai kah (ie- for Thai people ).Pom lark pet dee kah ( I like it hot ).Cheers!

Oops, sorry I just read this again and see the request is from Ken not Kathie so Ken you would need to say krup in those two instances not kah. Have fun!

Most restaurants will adjust the "hot" to your taste so if you want something very hot just let them know.

Thank you so much, everyone, for all your thoughts!!!

Yes, Bob, I love my Tom Yum Goong - I have actually rated several restaurants in NYC based upon it as one of the factors... and somewhat recently, I fell in love with the Tom Kha Gai at Kittichai... it is to die for!

Thank you Peteralan - sumluk - that was the word I was looking for... I will try "Phom kaw ..... sumluk khun Thai krup" and see what happens... I may learn a dear lesson that meal, but I have to know for myself!! haha...

Thanks again... Ken

Ken, yes, most of the well-known Thai restaurants (in guidebooks) say Lemongrass, Baan Khanitha, Blue Elephant... have elegant decor but are definitely toned down for Western tastes....

While you are in Bkk, recommend trying Isaan food. Isaan is the North-eastern region of Thailand. There are a few restaurants in Sukhumvit Soi 36 (get off at Thonglor BTS station - just near the petrol station). These serve the Isaan standards like gai yang (grilled chicken), som tam (spicy papaya salad) and khao neiow (sticky rice) as well as the more 'exotic' food like ants eggs! .

Also, you can't miss eating at MK. This is a chain of 'sukiyaki' (well, actually shabu shabu) restaurants. You choose different food from the menu and cook it yourself in a pot of stock. Really fun and delicious.
It's not fancy place, but it's very popular with locals! Delicious tea and sauce!!

One of my favourite Thai/Chinese restaurants is Somboon. If you are after service and atmosphere, this is probably not the place (it is pretty efficient) but if you are looking for good value, delicious seafood, this is it! They have many branches - ask your hotel. They are particularly famous for their Thai Chilli crab. Again, it's popular with locals.

hey Jenster - thanks for the info... I'll definitely keep it in mind - we won't be in BKK for that long, so I don't know how much we'll be able to try... we're aiming to eat about every hour on the hour or so, but I don't know how long that will last for!!!

You'll have less of a problem eating every hour than you will GETTING to a place to eat every hour. I truly think being stuck in a cab in BKK for 2+ hours in a horrific traffic jam is something everyone should experience once in their lifetimes!

Ken -- from what we ate the tastes were not toned down -- we limped to the Spice Market at the 4S our first night expecting not much and almost swooned over the aroma from the banana blossom and duck salad. And hot -- oh it was hot enough. No problems there at all. Grin.

I loved Face Thai -- agree with the person who posted that the minced Chicken in banana leaf isn't great, but my husband's bass was wonderful, loved their assorted appertisers, and the atmosphere is amazing.

Bed really has great food -- it's definitely Thai/Nouvelle fusion but they did a good job of not over complicating the tastes. Ken if you eat out in NYC you'll know what I mean -- the list of ingredients for a dish goes on and on and it just ends up tasting mediocre at best when people don't know what they're doing. The chef at Bed knows what he's doing and then some. We had a corn, tomato cocoa and feta cheese soup to start that was especially yummy. I'll save the rest of the Bed stories for my report on BKK.

Hated La Dalat Indochine. Service was rude, food was average or below. We asked for help selecting things and they looked at us like we had two heads. Wish we'd gone somewhere else that night. We had hoped to check out some of the places in the NY Times article from a few weeks ago but the heat the week we were there was intense. Between that and the jet lag -- we didn't make more than one special trip a day for food.

So, if you can get decent Thai at a big hotel, I think you'll find plenty of real Thai to go around.

hey Jenskar, thanks for the detail!! Great! Yes, I definitely know what you mean about the beauty of un-complicated dishes... I believe that fine cooking is all about balance, and great Thai food is no different... I like it when something is spicy, but it can't be all heat with no balance... there has to be everything working together... Bobby Flay actually does a good job of that in NYC - offsetting spicy heat with sweetness... but that's another topic for another forum, I guess...

Anyway, I'm glad you mentioned Face, because we had been considering going there one evening, but recently there have been several reports saying the food/service were mediocre... it's interesting to hear that you had such a good experience there...

We're also considering the Thai restaurant at the Peninsula - probably for the first night since we'll be staying there... I'm not too worried about jet lag since we'll be in Singapore for a day, then Krabi for a few days before BKK...

I've heard good things about the Spice Market in the 4seasons also... I guess your grin means that you guys enjoyed??

Yeah, we're planning on eating lots of Thai food while we're there... we love it in NYC, and I can't wait to get it over there... I'm soooo curious as to the difference. I'm sure that just the ingredients available over there will make a huge difference... we plan on eating about every hour on the hour - not necessarily at restaurants, but constantly nibbling and tasting various street foods while touring around (but only the vendors with lots of locals, and who's food we can watch being prepared... nothing that's been lying around - but I think that goes without saying)... I guess it's like saying that I wouldn't necessarily eat a dirty-water-dog on the street in NYC, but I have no problems getting a schwarma or something from the grilling guy who's making it just for me...

Thanks for the info... and keep it coming! Ken

I found Spice Market to be some of the blandest I ate in Bangkok. It was good years ago when it first opened but I think has gone way down hill.

Pen is very good thai food. This is NOT the restaurant in the Peninsula but is one that was written up in the NY Times a few months ago. Not a fancy restaurant but good food and fairly spicy.

The Terrace Rim Naam at the Oriental (the outdoor part of Sala Rim Naam) actually serves very spicy thai food in a pleasant outdoor setting. The food inside for dinner is bland but the lunch buffet is excellent.

I also like Lemongrass for thai food.

I'm one of the ones that had a very bad meal at FACE and won't be back.

I'm one of the people that had great food at Face. I was there in November, ate at the Thai part for lunch - really the best Thai food we had in Bangkok that trip. Gloria, unfortunately didn't have a good experience, and Guenmai wasn't impressed. But Carol had a great expereince, as did Bob... What does that mean? I think it means that the food is inconsistent. We could find no patterm as to when (lunch/dinner) someone ate, etc.

I had a meal at the Spice market a few years ago that had one dynamite dish and the rest were ok. Some people have reported good experiences there, many others have reported bad experiences there. It must be luck of the draw. In any case, it was quite expensive for Thai food. I'm not inclined to return.

I eat at Lemongrass each time I'm in Bangkok. Someone above referred to the decor as elegant... I can't imagine what they mean. It's in a funky old teak house and the decor is pretty understated (non-existent). The food, however, is excellent, and it tends toward the spicy side. They make a mean green curry!

I love the decor of Lemongrass but it's definitely not elegant. Sort of eclectic Thai but not pretentious. I have had good meals there over the years and these days see more thais there than tourists.

Ken

The grin was for the hot part. I don't know that I'd go out of my way to eat at the Spice Market -- my point was more that if the food there had some real flavor when I expected it to be bland or toned down, other places would most likely not be toned down. We probably got lucky with the banana flower/duck salad.

The best Thai meal I had was south of Chiang Mai near the umbrella village. I wrote Susan for the name so I'll get you that when she writes me back in case you guys do the handicraft highway tour. They had a crackled catfish and sprout dish, and a liver and scallion dish to die for. Lunch for 5 was 520 baht.

thank you gloria for saying that about spice market....i find it ordinary, expensive and sort of tasteless....the room is attractive, but i don't go for the room, rather for the food....now biscotti in 4S is another story...

le delat indochine....interesting report....we found the place interesting, and delicious....they also made suggestions as to what to have and were very nice....maybe they knew you were from nyc and thought they had to be rude to you??? like ny waiters??

Mathavalai Sorndaeng is a good restaurant filled with locals and you can have your food as spicy as you want. It's across from Democracy Monument. It's both thai and chinese. We had Sunday lunch there and it was filled with local thai families having Sunday lunch -- we were the only westerners. The place was large and decorated in a very old fashioned european style. There was a pianist and singers (one old and one young -- both women, both fat, both fairly unattractive -- very different from the thai woman working at tourist restaurants). Food was excellent and very cheap. We had four different things and ann had a coconut drink and total cost for the two of us was under $10. Singers were singing thai songs -- not one western one. It was a lot of fun. Definitely would recommend. Food is not "gourmet" but 1000% better than what we had at Face for a lot less money and at least there were a lot of people here. Service was very pleasant and efficient. Would definitely go back and if you're looking for non-tourist restaurants this one might do the trick.