I have been looking at tour info from Pacific Delight. The prices aren't too bad, but I wonder if I reslly need them. My husband and I have never been to either city. We've been to Hong Kong, but I'm thinking it's not the same.

My husband can get nervous when he doesn't know what's going on, or if we are getting ripped off.

Any suggestions or advice?

I had all the same questions you have about independent travel. If you go by yourself, the price is better, but it may not be worth it if it causes you a lot of stress. We almost always travel independently because we prefer it and I didn't find travel in China much more difficult than in any other area where we don't speak the language. We didn't go to Shanghai, but I will, eventually, report on Beijing in my trip report under the post - 4 Americans and 3 Mandarin Phrases. I found Beijing pretty easy. I think if you can negotiage Hong Kong, you can probably manage Beijing as well.

my advice is if you can do it on your own, without a tour company, do it, for no other reason than if your plans change you'll have trouble getting money back from Pacific Delight. We had booked Beijing on our own on 9/11/01; got as far as Detroit, and then of course, had to come home. We got all our $ back from the hotel and airline. In 2003 we booked Beijing through Pacific Delight (price was right), then had to cancel because of the SARS problem,(CDC was advising against travel to China) and the most Pacific Delight would do was say we could use our $800 deposit on another trip through them within the next year.(we had purchased flight insurance). When we decided to use the deposit, they wanted us to buy more flight insurance. I was so disgusted with them, we ended up forfeiting the $800 deposit, and booking on our own.

We contemplated and then rejected booking a tour package for Beijing, and we're glad we did.

Yes, English-speakers are relatively rare, and yes, as in many other places you can get ripped off if you're not careful. However, a few sensible precautions will minimise problems - there are many tips on this forum if you use the 'search' facility. A good guidebook is also a must.

Beijing is easy to walk around (buy a map), cabs are cheap, plentiful and (except for a handful of unlicenced operators honest, and if you have your destinations written in Chinese it's pretty hard to get lost. We found the great majority of Beijingers (and Chinese everywhere) open, friendly and good-humoured - even more so if you can give them a good laugh by trying out a few words in Mandarin.

Shanghai is also easy to navigate, and you'll find more English-speakers and Western-style eateries and bars there. The cabbies still don't speak English, but they're also cheap, cheerful and efficient. It's also a good place to just poke around and explore, especially in the French Concession and Old Town areas.

No idea about this particular tour company, but in general I'd be concerned about the possibility of spending far too much time in vastly overpriced shops and restaurants whose kickbacks will help finance your guide's next real estate investment. (What price protection from rip-offs?)

You can spend your time seeing China from the inside of a Western-style hotel and an air-conditioned tour bus, or, sheeplike, following a guide with a little flag through areas you can explore perfectly well by yourself. But your experience of this great country, its history and its people will be the poorer for it. My 2c worth.

You don't have to make an all or nothing decision. If you are typically an independent traveler, you can do so in Beijing as long as you heed the advice that others have posted on the boards here, and understand that you won't encounter many English speakers along the way.

You can book your own flights and hotels and make your own itinerary (heck, copy one from a tour group if it looks good) and for days when you'd feel more comfortable having a guide or pre-arranged transport, do it at your hotel. Regardless of what company overseas "books" your trip, they are all sub-contratcted to local agents here, so when booking from abroad, you are paying a middle man fee. Check out www.chinesecultureclub.org
www.cyclechina.com
and www.cabbeijing.com
www.wildwall.com
for an idea on prices, and availability.

It is almost always cheaper to do it on your own, but there is no prize for the person who saves $50 at the end of the day. But going it alone gives you the chance to spend more time at a particular site, leave another early, head to another city on your own pace and shop at the places you'd like to. It also leaves time for aimless wandering, stopping to take picutres, or skipping a day and lounging by the hotel pool, if you so feel.

So maybe doing a combination of both would suit you. Or perhaps, maybe just knowing that you have the option to join in certain day tours will be peace of mind enough.

A package includes everything and you should not have to do much yourself because they will have arranged all the transport and accommodation and the tours in advance.

I just returned from a trip I organized myself through 4 cities including Beijing and Shanghai. As recommended here, I noted what cities several tours set up because I wanted to see in which order would be best. I reserved online airline in and out from different cities, reserved all my hotel rooms in advance through the internet keeping in mind their cancellation policies. I made sure I had websites for train schedules and prices and internal China flights to two other cities I planned on visiting and made those reservations in country. I wanted to make sure of the dates once I was in China because I wanted flexibility. Our hotel helped us secure the train and air reservations for a minimal charge. I felt it was worth not having to find the offices myself to save my vacation time exploring and we did lots of exploring. Sometimes I didn't get the exact time I wanted, but the strangest thing, I would call again the next day and mysteriously the date and time I wanted was available and I as able to make the change at no extra cost. Make sure you ask for discount price.

I bought this very helpful little book: Insight Pocket Guide - Beijing which included a map. Had lots of useful recommendations including restaurants and how to get from one location to another. Very practical little guide. Also had another for Shanghai. Doing it on our own in Beijing and Shanghai was very easy, keeping in mind that we had to be sure to get locations written down in chinese. Subway system was easy to maneuver and much more efficient than taking taxi's during rush hour! When we wanted convenience we would book a short tour from the hotel to avoid hiring taxi to the bus station then to next city, then boat, etc. etc. We balanced our own plans with small tours. I felt so sorry for the large tour groups that would leave early in the morning and arrive late at night to start all over again the next morning. It was so nice to sleep late on a raining day and just poke around on our own. Yes, it can be a little stressful if you don't have the research done ahead of time, but if you write down your itinerary with all e-mail addresses and a few telephone numbers it's quite easy. I found reserving rooms over the internet cheaper than calling the hotel while in China. The tour operators apparently had blocks of rooms reserved at lower fares. I found many hotels were booked over the last couple of weeks also.

Another thing, I hate the feeling of being ripped off also, therefore asked the hotel to send a driver especially if arrival was late in the evening or asked how much I should pay so I could negotiate with the driver ahead of time. The hotel staff was very helpful everywhere explaining how much I should pay for transportation.

Thanks all for your generous help!

You might want to consider the "independent" city stay tours that Pacific Delight and many other tour companies offer. That way, most of the logistics such as flights, hotels, transfers, some meals, etc...are taken care of for you. As long as you like the airline and hotel choices, this may work for you.

With a little online research, you can find walking tours, sightseeing attractions, day trips, local guides, travel tips, etc...and schedule those whenever you want to go rather than going when the tour group does.

Having traveled with a relative much like your husband, I found that this alternative provides enough security in knowing what's going on (and PD has local hosts if you need help when you're there) plus the flexibility to go at your own pace.

One of the benefits of going on your own is that you have an opportunity to check out areas that the tours don't cover. All of the tour companies take you to the "standard" tourist spots such as Tian An Men Square, Forbidden City, Imperial Palace, Great Wall, Ming Tombs, Summer Palace, Temple of Heaven, the Bund, Yuyuan Garden, Shanghai Museum, Nanjing Rd. etc...- and they're all worth seeing - but there are many other places that you will only see if you go on your own.

Hong Kong is more "international" than mainland China, but both Beijing and Shanghai are major commercial cities where you can manage on your own.

I just got back from 2 weeks in China. We traveled independently and got upgraded virtually everywhere we went (boat, plane, hotel, etc.).

If you go to Beijing, contact this guy named Lei. We found him our first day there and he turned out to be a godsend. We had him for two days...his English is great...and he was a lot of fun.

His email is [email protected]. He can arrange for a driver to pick you up from the airport. We ended up just grabbing a taxi (from the taxi line) into town...and didn't get ripped off.

He took us to the local versions of restaurants (so we wouldn't pay the tourist price). He took us to a secluded area of The Great Wall--we were the only people there. The Forbidden City--again, we were the only people there (which is nice when trying to get pics without tourists!).

Shanghai was simple to navigate and more people speak English there. It really helps to learn some Mandarin. I used the Pimsleur CDs and got along just fine. It especially helped in negotiating!

If you decide to go with a tour company, I would pick Explorient (www.explorient.com). They do really interesting, reasonably priced tours for the independent traveler type.

Mollyw--

Would love to read your trip report. Hint! Hint!