Beijing Marriott/Renaissance
Aug 27th, 2003, 06:20 PM
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Beijing Marriott/Renaissance
Which would be a better location for a 50 y/o couple spending 4 nights in Beijing for a leisurely, "we don't have ot see everything" 4 nights in mid November? Presumably a few of the significant sights (Great Wall, Tia. Sq., etc) will all require taxi/shuttle/bus/tour travel anyway.
I still have about 800k Marriott points, so unless there's another property whose value ofsets the zero cost for a Marriott property, we'll likely stay either at:
Beijing Marriott West, 98 XiSanhuan Beilu Beijing 100037 or
The Renaissance Beijing, Air China Plaza No.36, Xiao Yun Lu, Chaoyang District Beijing 100027
The Marriott West is available as low as $105/night with a government discount, the Renaissance is $165 plus tax. Both will eat up 70,000 points for 4 nights.
Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.
Dale & Kathy
Baton Rouge
I still have about 800k Marriott points, so unless there's another property whose value ofsets the zero cost for a Marriott property, we'll likely stay either at:
Beijing Marriott West, 98 XiSanhuan Beilu Beijing 100037 or
The Renaissance Beijing, Air China Plaza No.36, Xiao Yun Lu, Chaoyang District Beijing 100027
The Marriott West is available as low as $105/night with a government discount, the Renaissance is $165 plus tax. Both will eat up 70,000 points for 4 nights.
Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.
Dale & Kathy
Baton Rouge
Aug 27th, 2003, 06:57 PM
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Take these hotels if they are free (on points), but don't even think about paying anything like those kinds of prices for them in mid-November.
I haven't stayed at either of these, but one colleague highly recommends the Renaissance, which also has a slightly better position than the Marriott West. If you happen to be flying with Air China you can check in at the hotel itself, which is far closer to the airport than the Marriott, too.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
I haven't stayed at either of these, but one colleague highly recommends the Renaissance, which also has a slightly better position than the Marriott West. If you happen to be flying with Air China you can check in at the hotel itself, which is far closer to the airport than the Marriott, too.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Aug 28th, 2003, 02:56 AM
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DDick, I have seen your posts on your trip to Bangkok, so it looks like you have a nice trip set for November. You will get a chance to experience two different cultures, climates and food.
OK, here are my comments on the Marriott hotel choices in Beijing:
Renaissance. This is a new hotel, and is very nice. As noted, it is nearer to the airport than the Marriott West. My only comment is on the level of English of some of the staff, it is not as high as at other hotels and you may need to search for someone if you have a specific question or problem. Not a huge drawback, but a comment I though I should note. The hotel is quoting $165 on the Marriott.com, travelhero.com and Expedia websites, so your government discount appears to be the rack rate. You should contact the hotel directly and see what they will offer you. Not sure how Marriott Rewards works, but maybe you can hold off on deciding until you arrive and if they can give you a better rate, use cash and save your points for other trips.
Beijing Marriott West. This is a conversion of an older hotel which was run by a local Chinese brand. In terms of quality it is a notch below the Renaissance but still very good quality. This hotel is closer to the Summer Palace than the Renaissance, both are about equidistant to the Tiananmen area. The Marriott.com website and Expedia are quoting your government discount rate of $105 as their basic rate for November.
New World Courtyard Beijing. You have not mentioned this hotel, but you may want to consider it. It is in a good location for tourists, as it is nearer to the Tiananmen area and the Temple of Heaven than either the Beijing West or the Renaissance. (You could walk to Tiananmen from the hotel, a longish walk of about a mile.) It is also within walking distance of one of the Hutong areas (however these are rapidly being torn down so I can't say with certainty that this is still the case today or in November!) It is of a lesser quality standard than the Beijing West or the Renaissance, more of what you might call a motel, but still fine and has two good restaurants. Don?t know if you could get is for less Marriott Reward points, if so, that might be worth considering. The Marriott.com website is quoting $90 for November.
3C Chong Wen Men Wai Street
Chong Wen District
Beijing 100062
China
Phone: 86 10-67081188
Fax: 86 10-67081808
Hope you are also considering a stay in Hong Kong, as the weather is so great there in November. The JW Marriott there is a great hotel in an excellent location and is worth spending your points on, as they get quite a high rate.
OK, here are my comments on the Marriott hotel choices in Beijing:
Renaissance. This is a new hotel, and is very nice. As noted, it is nearer to the airport than the Marriott West. My only comment is on the level of English of some of the staff, it is not as high as at other hotels and you may need to search for someone if you have a specific question or problem. Not a huge drawback, but a comment I though I should note. The hotel is quoting $165 on the Marriott.com, travelhero.com and Expedia websites, so your government discount appears to be the rack rate. You should contact the hotel directly and see what they will offer you. Not sure how Marriott Rewards works, but maybe you can hold off on deciding until you arrive and if they can give you a better rate, use cash and save your points for other trips.
Beijing Marriott West. This is a conversion of an older hotel which was run by a local Chinese brand. In terms of quality it is a notch below the Renaissance but still very good quality. This hotel is closer to the Summer Palace than the Renaissance, both are about equidistant to the Tiananmen area. The Marriott.com website and Expedia are quoting your government discount rate of $105 as their basic rate for November.
New World Courtyard Beijing. You have not mentioned this hotel, but you may want to consider it. It is in a good location for tourists, as it is nearer to the Tiananmen area and the Temple of Heaven than either the Beijing West or the Renaissance. (You could walk to Tiananmen from the hotel, a longish walk of about a mile.) It is also within walking distance of one of the Hutong areas (however these are rapidly being torn down so I can't say with certainty that this is still the case today or in November!) It is of a lesser quality standard than the Beijing West or the Renaissance, more of what you might call a motel, but still fine and has two good restaurants. Don?t know if you could get is for less Marriott Reward points, if so, that might be worth considering. The Marriott.com website is quoting $90 for November.
3C Chong Wen Men Wai Street
Chong Wen District
Beijing 100062
China
Phone: 86 10-67081188
Fax: 86 10-67081808
Hope you are also considering a stay in Hong Kong, as the weather is so great there in November. The JW Marriott there is a great hotel in an excellent location and is worth spending your points on, as they get quite a high rate.
Aug 28th, 2003, 10:59 AM
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I just wanted to second the above suggestion for the New World Courtyard in Beijing. It's much better located (for sightseeing) than either the Marriott or Renaissance properties and is within walking distance to the Temple of Heaven and Tiananmen Sq. Plus it's a category 3 vs. 4 so you'll save some points there.
Cicerone,
Unfortunately Marriott Rewards still works on the paper system, so you have to redeem your certificate in advance for the exact number of nights, hotel category, etc. It's one of the more frustrating things about the program as compared to Starwood or Hyatt which are all electronic. They're in the process of converting to electronic awards but no date has been set for international properties yet.
Cicerone,
Unfortunately Marriott Rewards still works on the paper system, so you have to redeem your certificate in advance for the exact number of nights, hotel category, etc. It's one of the more frustrating things about the program as compared to Starwood or Hyatt which are all electronic. They're in the process of converting to electronic awards but no date has been set for international properties yet.
Aug 28th, 2003, 09:38 PM
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A colleague has given me this description of the Marriott West: The first full-fledged Marriott in Beijing, this hotel offers good value after the discount (down to $88 to $100 for a room from a notional rack rage of $260), although the location is far from the major sights. Along with the Shenyang Marriott (the first Marriott in China), it's among the country's most opulent hotels. The structure was an apartment building before the Marriott Group took over, so rooms are immense. Eighty percent have Jacuzzi tubs and all are furnished with sumptuous beds and overstuffed chairs. Guests have free access to the attached Bally fitness center.
As I said, I haven't stayed here myself, but it does sound rather better than suggested above.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
As I said, I haven't stayed here myself, but it does sound rather better than suggested above.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Sep 3rd, 2003, 09:15 AM
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Message: Okay....now you've gotten me thinking (again!).
The value of the Marriott points is all over the place (by staying at the Renaissance Harbor View in Hong Kong I'm getting about $0.02 per point - 52,000 points for 4 nights in a 2000 HKD plus 13% tax room).
But in Beijing the value is less than half that. I guess I'm more like LouiseUK than I thought (in my BKK questions). So......since Priceline seems to be the rage, and I'm getting older & want nicer, there is only one 5-star property & it's located in the Sanlintun Embassy District. Any comments on location or the potential hotel(s)? I'm presuming taxis are cheap. Also, since I'll be giving up free breakfasts & evening snacks, what's a reasonable breakfast cost in Beijing (not necessarily in the hotel)? Are we looking at nominal or $15 US apiece?
There are 4-star hotels listed in the Chaoyang Embassy District & the Chongwen areas.
So....Peter & you other experts.....I've changed stride & am going to forsake the comfort of my Marriotts to try Priceline for the 1st time. Which should be my 1st & 2nd choice districts? The BiddingForTravel site has almost zero on Beijing.
As Orville Reddenbacher used to say, "Thank you for your support".
Dale & Kathy
The value of the Marriott points is all over the place (by staying at the Renaissance Harbor View in Hong Kong I'm getting about $0.02 per point - 52,000 points for 4 nights in a 2000 HKD plus 13% tax room).
But in Beijing the value is less than half that. I guess I'm more like LouiseUK than I thought (in my BKK questions). So......since Priceline seems to be the rage, and I'm getting older & want nicer, there is only one 5-star property & it's located in the Sanlintun Embassy District. Any comments on location or the potential hotel(s)? I'm presuming taxis are cheap. Also, since I'll be giving up free breakfasts & evening snacks, what's a reasonable breakfast cost in Beijing (not necessarily in the hotel)? Are we looking at nominal or $15 US apiece?
There are 4-star hotels listed in the Chaoyang Embassy District & the Chongwen areas.
So....Peter & you other experts.....I've changed stride & am going to forsake the comfort of my Marriotts to try Priceline for the 1st time. Which should be my 1st & 2nd choice districts? The BiddingForTravel site has almost zero on Beijing.
As Orville Reddenbacher used to say, "Thank you for your support".
Dale & Kathy
Sep 3rd, 2003, 09:50 AM
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Beware the star system which is meaningless in Beijing. If you want quality, then choose a familiar name, or one of the Hong Kong-owned Asian luxury chains.
There's no need to book at all in November, but if you really must, leave it until nearer the time to get a better price. I wouldn't bother with Priceline, etc. As has been remarked on this site before, post SARS there are excellent rates to be had anyway, and November is way off-season. It was reported that the Marco Polo has had rooms for $65 on it's own Web site. If that offer is still going I'd snap it up.
Taxis are certainly cheap, and the centre of Beijing is divided into several districts, all of which have more convenient and less convenient areas, so thinking about it in that way doesn't help. The hotels whose names might not be familiar to you but which are excellent and well-located would be in particular the Marco Polo, Peninsula Palace, and the Shangri-la properties, particularly the Kerry Centre and perhaps China World. Of more familiar names I'd look at the Grand Hyatt, and perhaps the Starwood hotels' St Regis. I'd avoid Crowne Plaza, Holiday Inn, Sheraton, Hilton, none of which are really up to the mark. The main clusters of hotels are in the northeast corner of the third ring road--handy for the airport and for business people, but not the best choice for visitors otherwise; up Wangfujing Dajie and along Dong Chang'an JIe (about as central as you can get), and in Jianguo Men Wai/WorldTrade Centre area (a little far-flung but on the metro). The Marco Polo is in none of these areas but very well situated (on both main metro lines, one stop or a half hour walk from the Forbidden City) and undiscovered at the moment, and since it has yet to be discovered is excellent value for money.
Really: Don't book. Or if you must, wait until the week before you travel and book via the Web site of the hotel you choose. Don't think that Western ideas of what a five-star hotel room should cost apply here. Rack rates are stratospheric but almost never paid. 50% off is commonplace. Average yields per night for four- and five-star hotels in Beijing are around $65 in reality. Only two or three manage an average rate in excess of $100, and it's the advance bookers keep them up there.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
There's no need to book at all in November, but if you really must, leave it until nearer the time to get a better price. I wouldn't bother with Priceline, etc. As has been remarked on this site before, post SARS there are excellent rates to be had anyway, and November is way off-season. It was reported that the Marco Polo has had rooms for $65 on it's own Web site. If that offer is still going I'd snap it up.
Taxis are certainly cheap, and the centre of Beijing is divided into several districts, all of which have more convenient and less convenient areas, so thinking about it in that way doesn't help. The hotels whose names might not be familiar to you but which are excellent and well-located would be in particular the Marco Polo, Peninsula Palace, and the Shangri-la properties, particularly the Kerry Centre and perhaps China World. Of more familiar names I'd look at the Grand Hyatt, and perhaps the Starwood hotels' St Regis. I'd avoid Crowne Plaza, Holiday Inn, Sheraton, Hilton, none of which are really up to the mark. The main clusters of hotels are in the northeast corner of the third ring road--handy for the airport and for business people, but not the best choice for visitors otherwise; up Wangfujing Dajie and along Dong Chang'an JIe (about as central as you can get), and in Jianguo Men Wai/WorldTrade Centre area (a little far-flung but on the metro). The Marco Polo is in none of these areas but very well situated (on both main metro lines, one stop or a half hour walk from the Forbidden City) and undiscovered at the moment, and since it has yet to be discovered is excellent value for money.
Really: Don't book. Or if you must, wait until the week before you travel and book via the Web site of the hotel you choose. Don't think that Western ideas of what a five-star hotel room should cost apply here. Rack rates are stratospheric but almost never paid. 50% off is commonplace. Average yields per night for four- and five-star hotels in Beijing are around $65 in reality. Only two or three manage an average rate in excess of $100, and it's the advance bookers keep them up there.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Sep 3rd, 2003, 02:45 PM
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I'm very hesitant to use Priceline unless I can be fairly certain of which hotel(s) I'll end up with through reading biddingfortravel.com or betterbidding.com. In checking the biddingfortravel site, they list the Harbour Plaza Beijing as a possible hotel for what Priceline calls the Sanlintun Embassy Area. If the information on the biddingfortravel site is correct (they usually are), then the Priceline maps are inaccurate as the Harbor Plaza is definitely not located within what Priceline defines as the Sanlintun Embassy Area according to their own map. The hotel that's listed on biddingfortravel that's come up before for Priceline's Chaoyang area does seem to be within that area according to the Priceline map. But with so little information posted, I'd still be wary.
Sep 24th, 2003, 01:43 PM
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New promo on marriott.com. Promotion code "V12", pay with Visa, Beijing Marriott West rate is $92/night, including breakfast. Since Marriott Rewards is also running a Visa double points promo through Jan. 15, that tips the scales in favor of "earning" vs. "burning" your points. My wife and I will stay there on our own Beijing trip Nov. 22ish-29ish. Perhaps we'll see you at the breakfast bar.
Oct 4th, 2003, 10:14 PM
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My husband and I are both in our early 60's. We stayed at the Courtyard due to its location. It was ideally situated near the Pearl Market and other historical sites. We found the staff at the hotel very knowledgable - they gave us excellent guidance - best way to get around in the city and helped us modify our list of things we wanted to do. Hope this helps you.
Susan
Susan
Oct 8th, 2003, 07:56 AM
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Interestingly, after reading Peter's comments & then looking at the Marco Polo website I found they offered a Junior Suite with full concierge room access for $120 a night or so. And....there was a pay for 2 get 1 free promotion. But the promotion expired on Sept. 15th so I just waited.
Unfortunately (or otherwise) their rates went up to about $95 for a basic room and $150 for the junior suite with no promotional advantage. Well...it looked like the location of the Marco Polo was more suited to us tourist-types, so I e-mailed the hotel AND sent them a fax asking if they'd honor the previous internet rate. I told them if they'd honor the $120 for the Junior Suite (which didn't even include the buy 2 - get 1 free deal) I'd send them my credit card info for confirmation. We were planning to spend 4 nights in mid November.
I didn't even get the courtesy of a response.
Then the Boondoggleking called my attention to the $92 Marriott deal. I called them up on the last day of September. They said the offer expired Sept. 30. While I had them on the line I tried to reserve it on the internet for my dates in Novemeber & it let me. Told the lady and she confirmed she could also book it. And so she did.
Bottom line: Even when I try to stay at another upscale hotel, the Marriott folks usually come through. No, it won't be quite the same experience we were hoping for (though I suspect we'll be just fine). But I do get the complementary upgrade to the concierge floor and get to accrue even more points (I'm at 850k and still climbing - I've spent about 110 nights in Marriotts so far this year). And I have 100% confidence if anything goes wrong Marriott will make it right.
We've resigned ourselves to the fact that we'll have to use taxiis more, but I'm not so sure that's a big deal. We thought it would be a major inconvenience & expense in Athens earlier this year but it turned out to be a non-issue.
As to the Courtyard - I also have 100% confidence in them. But with the promotional rate (THANKS Boondoggleking) and the automatic upgrades I get it just doesn't make sense in our situation.
Thanks all.
Dale & Kathy
Baton Rouge
Unfortunately (or otherwise) their rates went up to about $95 for a basic room and $150 for the junior suite with no promotional advantage. Well...it looked like the location of the Marco Polo was more suited to us tourist-types, so I e-mailed the hotel AND sent them a fax asking if they'd honor the previous internet rate. I told them if they'd honor the $120 for the Junior Suite (which didn't even include the buy 2 - get 1 free deal) I'd send them my credit card info for confirmation. We were planning to spend 4 nights in mid November.
I didn't even get the courtesy of a response.
Then the Boondoggleking called my attention to the $92 Marriott deal. I called them up on the last day of September. They said the offer expired Sept. 30. While I had them on the line I tried to reserve it on the internet for my dates in Novemeber & it let me. Told the lady and she confirmed she could also book it. And so she did.
Bottom line: Even when I try to stay at another upscale hotel, the Marriott folks usually come through. No, it won't be quite the same experience we were hoping for (though I suspect we'll be just fine). But I do get the complementary upgrade to the concierge floor and get to accrue even more points (I'm at 850k and still climbing - I've spent about 110 nights in Marriotts so far this year). And I have 100% confidence if anything goes wrong Marriott will make it right.
We've resigned ourselves to the fact that we'll have to use taxiis more, but I'm not so sure that's a big deal. We thought it would be a major inconvenience & expense in Athens earlier this year but it turned out to be a non-issue.
As to the Courtyard - I also have 100% confidence in them. But with the promotional rate (THANKS Boondoggleking) and the automatic upgrades I get it just doesn't make sense in our situation.
Thanks all.
Dale & Kathy
Baton Rouge
Oct 8th, 2003, 06:44 PM
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Great, yet another time sink. As a brand-new fodor's forum post-er, I think I'll soon be following dddick's lead into way too many postings here. Anyway...
I'm hardly platinum with Marriott, but the beauty of rewards programs -- besides effective dividend rates of between 1% and potentially 100% of your travel dollar (it all depends on how crafty/obsessive you are) -- is that you get treated so much better, *every time*, than Joe Customer. And an ancillary benefit is, this makes your choices so much easier: all else being relatively equal, why stay/fly with anyone else?
BTW, flying Delta for the first time to BTR this weekend (New Orleans wedding, and my platinum-status airline's fares to MSY were ludicrous). I'm already dreading being Joe Customer again...
I'm hardly platinum with Marriott, but the beauty of rewards programs -- besides effective dividend rates of between 1% and potentially 100% of your travel dollar (it all depends on how crafty/obsessive you are) -- is that you get treated so much better, *every time*, than Joe Customer. And an ancillary benefit is, this makes your choices so much easier: all else being relatively equal, why stay/fly with anyone else?
BTW, flying Delta for the first time to BTR this weekend (New Orleans wedding, and my platinum-status airline's fares to MSY were ludicrous). I'm already dreading being Joe Customer again...
Oct 9th, 2003, 08:37 AM
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Well....I'll be on the 11:45 flight ATL - BTR. If you're on that flight say "Hi" (I'll have a black attache with the NFPA Fire logo on the side). Or I can meet you in one of the Crown Rooms.
I agree with your statements about brand affinity & loyalty, but....Delta's about to push me over the edge. I'll still qualify Platinum for next year but it took 130 segments of full fare tickets to get my 100,000 miles. Amazing - I have to spend about $45,000 on airline tickets in a year & still get treated like crap.
Marriott's been providing the customer service Delta used to provide (probably much better). The issue with Marriott is that we don't always agree on the value of their rooms and the cost in points. So I frequently chose to pay instead of staying free, then using points to give me more bang for the buck.
The $60 Courtyard rate sounds great. If I were younger, poorer and didn't get the free upgrades I pounce on it.
Thanks everyone.
Dale & Kathy
Baton Rouge
I agree with your statements about brand affinity & loyalty, but....Delta's about to push me over the edge. I'll still qualify Platinum for next year but it took 130 segments of full fare tickets to get my 100,000 miles. Amazing - I have to spend about $45,000 on airline tickets in a year & still get treated like crap.
Marriott's been providing the customer service Delta used to provide (probably much better). The issue with Marriott is that we don't always agree on the value of their rooms and the cost in points. So I frequently chose to pay instead of staying free, then using points to give me more bang for the buck.
The $60 Courtyard rate sounds great. If I were younger, poorer and didn't get the free upgrades I pounce on it.
Thanks everyone.
Dale & Kathy
Baton Rouge
Oct 10th, 2003, 08:20 PM
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Arriving BTR 12:19, I'll look for you at the Beijing Marriott though, November 26-28, or the Beijing Renaissance, November 29-30 (using a free weekend cert for that one, since their rate was ~$150.) If that's when you're there...
BTW, I make platinum with long hauls, not segments, usually 3X a year to Asia, plus whatever else. All personal travel, ~$4000 a year. (Hence my nickname.) Sorry Delta's the only game in town for you.
BTW, I make platinum with long hauls, not segments, usually 3X a year to Asia, plus whatever else. All personal travel, ~$4000 a year. (Hence my nickname.) Sorry Delta's the only game in town for you.
Oct 11th, 2003, 03:32 PM
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Nope. Beijing Nov 11 - 15 at the $92 rate in the Marriott. Will be at the Marriott Resort & Spa, Bangkok Oct 29 - Nov 4 (also about $90 a night), Hanoi Nov 4 - 7 (Sofitel Metropole at about $110), Hong Kong Nov 7 - 11 (Renaissance Harbor View at a 52,000 point deal). Considering the airfare was free on Delta & Korean Air and the BKK-HAN-HKG-PEK Business class flight was only a little over $500 apiece, the overall trip will be about $2500 for all air & hotel for nearly 3 weeks for the two of us, staying at some pretty good properties. All the Marriotts could provide both breakfask & dinner everyday if we wanted to go cheaper & really utilize the concierge rooms. We could have burned more points and stayed free in Beijing & Bangkok but the value wasn't there.
Thanks for the pointers. If there's anything I can do for you, let me know.
dddick*at*bellsouth.net
Dale & Kathy
Baton Rouge
Thanks for the pointers. If there's anything I can do for you, let me know.
dddick*at*bellsouth.net
Dale & Kathy
Baton Rouge
