We're going to Beijing for a week in August and I'm trying to decide which section of the wall to visit. I'm thinking we'll hire a car and driver for the day. Will it be so horribly hot in August that we wouldn't want to go to Jinshanling to Simatai? Does it really take 3 hours to drive out there, 5 hours for the hike and 3 hours drive back to the center of town? Is the extra time worth it, compared to going to Mutianyu? We're in good shape and would like to see the wall without hoards of other tourists around. Is it reasonable to arrange for the car and driver from our 4 star hotel? How much should we expect to pay?<BR><BR>I've read over and over that the Ming Tombs aren't all that, but how about the Qing tombs? What makes them better and what's the difference between the east and west? How long does it take to get there (with a car and driver)? Would that be a full day trip?<BR><BR>Thanks for your help!

Hi,<BR><BR>My husband and I were in Beijing last June, and it is hot, but bearable (sp.?). We rented a car and driver for the day. The concierge at our hotel arranged it for us. We stayed at the Peace Hotel (I would guess a 4-star hotel). Basically, he arranged this with a taxi driver and for the day it was about $50. We could have probably paid less - we didn't haggle as we found the price quite reasonable (tours were running about $75 a person). We asked the driver to take us to Huanghua, a section of the wall described in the Lonely Planet. LP actually has a map of the hike in the book and describes each tower as you go along. It was fabulous! We were practically the only people there, especially because we got there quite early. However, the villagers were certainly used to tourists. In fact, there is a restaurant at the base of the wall at the resevoir which had a sign outside which said "Featured in the Lonely Plant" and the owner, a very nice woman, actually brought out her own copy of LP and showed us where to walk on the Wall. Apparently, one part of the Wall the LP says you can walk, you cannot because it is too dangerous. The initial part of this hike is very steep and a lit scary as it is over stumbly rocks and if you slip you would fall into the reservoir, but if you are slow and cautious, you will be fine. There is a man at the top of the wall who will offer to sell you fireworks to celebrate the fact that you made it to the top, and there are also a couple of people who will try to sell you water, but none of this ruined the experience. We still felt very alone and adventurous. The drive to Huanghua is about an hour and very interesting. We passed the Ming tombs and did not go in. I would highly recommend getting a car and driver. You can get to Huanghua via bus, but for quite a small expense for the car, we thought it was well worth it. If you have any other questions, please feel free to e-mail mne directly at the address above.<BR><BR>Alison

Thanks, Alison! Which hike in LP is that? How long did it take? Did you start one place and end up someplace else or backtrack? Were there admission fees? Do you think the scenery along that part is as interesting as elsewhere? Thanks!

Hi Uio,<BR><BR>We did the Huanghua to Gaping Jaw hike (p. 186 in Beijing LP; p.234 in China LP). However, as I mentioned above, we did not hike the "Gaping Jaw" part as we were told it was too dangerous. It took about 4-hours, it was very hot and your need to go quite slowly. We headed down the side of the mountain around Tower #12 or 13. LP describes a path at Tower 14 that goes past a barracks and pumping station, we did not find that path. A very nice Chinese man that we met on the Wall directed us (with a point) down the mountain. It was actually very interesting because the mountain is all terraced with fruit orchards and interesting water systems. We ended up on the road and walked back to Huanghua, so we did not back track. There are no admission fees, very few tourists. As far as the scenery, it was spectacular, but I can't compare it to other parts of the Wall as I have not been. You can see mountains all around you and the Wall winding up and down all in the distance which is what I imagined and I was not disappointed. Hopefully, someone else will be able to comment on the hike from Jinshanling to Simatai. We were also very interested in that hike but seemed far away for a day trip.

The drive to Jinshanling, depending on traffic, should be a little over two hours; 2.5 if you leave from the centre of Beijing. The time on the Wall is three hours if you proceed at a very leisurely pace. The walk has similar qualities to those described by Alison above, and you pass between 25 and 30 watchtowers in differing states of repair en route. At points where the Wall becomes near-vertical there are obvious paths to cut corners if you wish, although remounting the Wall sometimes involves balancing on a wobbly pile of stones. Beginning at the Jinshanling end is advisable, since there are few souvenir sellers, and the ones at the Simatai end simply cling to visitors until they buy something, and then cling some more. Buy nothing from these people, and take plenty of mineral water and some snacks with you when you go.<BR><BR>Once on the Wall at Jinshanling you'll see it stretching away for miles into the distance, running along ridges and leaping from high point ot high point: quite magnificent.<BR><BR>Both the Eastern and Western Qing Tombs require a day trip, and an early start would be recommended (as it is for Jinshanling, above). The Eastern Qing Tombs are 125km to the east of Beijing, the Western ones 130km to the southwest. Both sites are magnificent, neither receive many foreign visitors (and the Western few Chinese, either) and both are far more interesting than the Ming Tombs.<BR><BR>The Eastern Tombs claims to be the largest and most complete group of imperial tombs in China (although the Western site is busy renovating and opening more halls), including five for emperors, four for empresses, five for concubines, and one for a princess, containing altogether five emperors, 15 empresses, 136 concubines, three princes, and two princesses. Of particular interest are the tombs for the Dowager Empress Cixi, and for the Qianlong Emperor, both of whose tomb chambers are open. The dark wood and gilded detail of Cixi's tomb, matching the halls in the Forbidden City where she spent her last years, is particularly attractive.<BR><BR>At both sites agriculture has invaded the formerly enclosed areas, and orchards and rows of cabbages lap the vast tomb complexes.<BR><BR>The Western Tombs attractions include that very few foreigners make it here indeed, that Aisin Gioro Puyi's remains are now here in a commercially run plot on the edge of the site, and an empress' tomb backed by a semi-circular wall which gives the same extraordinary sonic effects promised but never achievable at the Temple of Heaven. There are also two neighbouring tomb complexes so similar that if you drive in a loop between them you may at first be convinced you've gone round in a circle. The site is so rural that peasants place nets on the spirit way to one of the tombs in order to catch rabbits.<BR><BR>The Western Tombs are easier to reach, it merely being a matter of taking the Jingshi Expressway to Gao Bei Dian, and then heading west to Yixian, while the route to the Eastern Tombs is more complicated (although drivers are unlikely to know either route).<BR><BR>The price quoted by Alison for her one day hire is extraordinarily low by hotel standards, and only about 30% more than you could bargain for yourself. Trips to the Western or Eastern Qing tombs should be no more than this, either. Both sites have much more to offer than the Ming Tombs, and both are highly recommended for day trips out of Beijing.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html