We will be in Kyoto for eight nights in November, from Wednesday the 19th to Thursday the 27th, including over the 3 day holiday weekend of Labor Day Thanksgiving. We would love suggestions about how to minimize crowds and maximize being able to capture the magic of this lovely sounding all too well loved city.
We plan to take a day trip to Nara, to the Miho museum and perhaps to Himej castle, leaving us either 4 or 5 days in Kyoto itself. According to Hawaiian Traveler, we have a good chance of being there for the peak of the foliage if the weather gods are kind. The sights we hope to see include the Ryoanji Temple, the Katsura Imperial Villa and the Moss Temple, the Nijo Castle, the Gold and Silver Pavillons and the Gion area. We plan to get up really EARLY to minimize crowds, but would welcome other suggestions and tips. Might we do better to skip some of the major sights in favor of more minor ones in search of tranquility? Does anyone have any off the most beaten track places they would like to share?

We would be curious to know what Kim Japan has decided to show her visiting family of Kyoto when they arrive this month.

Some practical questions: buses and subways vs taxis--how expensive are taxis in Kyoto (our Japanese ranges from nonexistent to 50 or 60 minimal phrases)? Does anyone know of relatively inexpensive breakfast places near the Westin, either Western or Japanese?

After we leave Kyoto, we will spend a night at a temple on Mt. Koya, two nights at a ryokan in Miyajima, then a stop to see the Peace Memorial in Hiroshima and back to Kyoto to reunite with our luggage and spend a final night there before a 7 pm flight the next day from Osaka to San Francisco.

Domo arigato gozaimasu to all of you for your help, past and present

Don't forget to take the ticket as you enter from the back door of the bus.

The deer in Nara park are very aggressive.....even to adults. If you choose to feed them the crackers that are sold all over, show only one at a time and hide the rest or you'll be sorry

Taxis are plentiful cheaper in Kyoto than Tokyo as the rate starts at 600 yen for the first 2 kilometers and increases roughly 100 yen for every 500 meters thereafter. Good for short and medium range transport

Your itinerary looks like fun and your timing for a koyo looks better than good. Have a fun trip and tell us all about it when you return! I am very jealous right now.....

Aloha!

We will have one night in Nara and 3 nights in Kyoto. Although I have a list of places to see, the visiting family members haven't seen it yet, and I don't know how much we'll get through in a day...we ourselves tend to be slow at sightseeing, and we hate rushing around from place to place just to tick the box.

I think we will certainly see Sanjusangendo as it is right next door to the hotel. Kiyomizudera is near as well. Nijojo is also on the list.

We enjoy experiences, so hope to interest them in doing Japanese style batik http://www.roketsu.com/ and/or http://shibori.jp/taiken.pdf

I tried to reserve for the Imperial Villas...since 3 months ahead, and there has never been any availability open. They show no availability at all for November as well. In fact, they show no availability at all, period.

The Sagano train in Arashiyama might be nice. http://www.sagano-kanko.co.jp/eng/index.htm I haven't heard much good about the boat trip down the river though.

I'm really not sure what sort of tranquility you will find. Kyoto is a huge city in and of itself, and it is the number one tourist destination in Japan for domestic and international tourists. The autumn leaves bring more people than usual as well. You might consider going to somewhere off the main tourist trail and ini the country if you want tranquility.

Taxis in Kyoto...expensive but if you don't go far then it's not bad. As an example, www.navitime.co.jp (only Japanese) shows a taxi from Kyoto station to Ginkakuji (Silver temple) as costing ¥2,600 for the 8.1 km/26 minute trip.

The bus system in Kyoto is useful for tourists, more than the subway imo. There is a day pass you can get that makes it easy as you don't have to worry about fare/change/how to pay.

Breakfast...hotels offer the best breakfast choice. There are some kissaten/coffee shops that serve morning sets of usually toast and boiled egg and salad and coffee/tea. Often they have a customer base of local businessmen and are not especially welcoming to outsiders..but not always...you'll be able to tell by looking at the entrance and menu. If you see English you'll know tourists go there. Bakeries have all sorts of bread goods. There might be a Big Boy and they have a sort of breakfast menu in some locations. Convenience stores have breads, onigiri, obento, drinks. If you want an early breakfast, convenience store, hotel or buy it the night before, as many kissaten don't open before 8:00, and bakeries too. Department stores/supermarkets open around 10:00.

I've had breakfast sets in local restaurants without English menus - they always seem to have pictures....

I highly recommend the Miho Museum as well as Himeji-jo.

Enjoy your trip!

Yes you will use the bus and subways system more in Kyoto especially since you are out at the Westin. The day passes can be bought at the main stations and on the bus but you need to speak Japanese to get them on the bus and you still need to take a ticket when you enter the bus. See here for some transport info in Kyoto

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2015.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2363.html

I would use the buses and subways during the days to get to a site. At night on the way home we always took a taxi unless the subway entrance was right in sight. A taxi cost us 780 yen or so at night from the Gion area to Kyoto station

Aloha!

Another recommendation for Miho museum--the view and the architecture are stunning. Though I must say, some exhibition may not be your cup of tea. Check their website for the opening dates/time and transportation.

I would also strongly recommend Arashiyama. Loved strolling through the bamboo forest. I enjoyed the little tram ride--haven't tried the riverboat but you'll get a very scenic ride through the train alone.

Golden Temple is supposedly best in the afternoon (reflection on the gilt roofs), esp for photos.

I also enjoyed Kiyomizu temple (get there early in the morning), and walking around numerous temples and narrow alleyways along Higashiyama.

Personally, ryoanji zen garden was a bit of a let down--simple, elegant zen garden but way too many people when I got there. Probably another place you should get done first thing in the morning before the tourist buses descend. Ditto for moss garden.

Whatever you do, make sure you get a bus route map and study it well. I presume you have the hotel room booked already?

Arigato gozaimasusu to all for your thoughts and ideas. Kim Japan, we too are slow sightseers; in fact we did not see San Marco in Venice until on our 7th trip there we had the bright idea of going to mass and were thus able to see it without the mobs. W9 London, we are afraid that seeing the Zen garden Ryoanji could have the opposite impact that the garden designed and I think will go only when it opens or search for a less known rock garden. HT, thanks again for your optimistic predictions about fall colors--I grew up in Michigan before I moved to San Francisco in the early 70s and carry around with me a permanent nostalgia for fall.

Perhaps this will be the trip where we achieve a Zenlike detachment from the presence of so many others....