4 nights Agra?
Feb 9th, 2004, 04:27 PM
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4 nights Agra?
I am going to India to see the Taj Mahal for my 40th Birthday. I've booked a 14-day tour with General Tours.
http://www.generaltours.com/display_...i?tour_seq=975
I am arriving in New Delhi around 5pm on a Saturdday evening. I have 4 nights to spend in India before I meet up with the tour group Wednesday evening at the Le Meridien in Delhi. Mid-way during the tour, we will be stopping at the Taj Mahal, but it will be late afternoon and only for an hour. I would like to see the Taj both sunrise and sunset, so would like to visit before my group tour starts.
My concern is so many peolple have made comments not to stay in Agra more than one night (so I'm certain they will think 4 nights are too many!)
Any suggestions on where to go/stay during my 4 nights?
(Also, I'm havning great difficulty figuring out their train service...and I lke to think I'm a fairly bright lady! Any help would be appreciated)
Thanks in advance for your help!
Stacey
http://www.generaltours.com/display_...i?tour_seq=975
I am arriving in New Delhi around 5pm on a Saturdday evening. I have 4 nights to spend in India before I meet up with the tour group Wednesday evening at the Le Meridien in Delhi. Mid-way during the tour, we will be stopping at the Taj Mahal, but it will be late afternoon and only for an hour. I would like to see the Taj both sunrise and sunset, so would like to visit before my group tour starts.
My concern is so many peolple have made comments not to stay in Agra more than one night (so I'm certain they will think 4 nights are too many!)
Any suggestions on where to go/stay during my 4 nights?
(Also, I'm havning great difficulty figuring out their train service...and I lke to think I'm a fairly bright lady! Any help would be appreciated)
Thanks in advance for your help!
Stacey
Feb 9th, 2004, 08:18 PM
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I note that with your tour u are covering Agra, Jaipur, Varanasi. One option is to see more of Rajasthan - Udaipur is failry well connected. Another is to go to the hills. Do u want culture of wildlife or scenic beauty? Also pl advise budgets. I think u will enjoy 1 more night in Agra to see sunset and sunrise.
Feb 10th, 2004, 02:29 AM
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A couple of questions and suggestions:
1. I can't tell which tour you are on, but none of the General Tours seem to spend more than one day in Delhi if I have read the itineraries correctly. Therefore, I would split your time between Delhi and Agra. This will give you a chance to relax a bit and recover from jet lag rather than trying to rush out to another city. You arrive at 5 pm on Saturday, and I would spend Sunday and Monday morning in Delhi, then head by train to Agra in time for sunset at the Taj and stay for two nights there As for sightseeing in Delhi, I would recommend getting a guide and driver who will take you inside the Red Fort and the Friday Mosque (as I am assuming your tour will not do that, as you have one very full day of touring with the group). There is a museum in the Red Fort that is worth a visit. Other places to see which are interesting are Indira Ghandi's house and assassination site and Nehru's house (very large and elegant). A walk up along the RajPath from the India Gate to the Parliament buildings is a good way to see this part of the city (you will be passing through it on a bus on your tour with General Tours). If the gardens of the Presidential Palace at the top of Rajpath are open (February to April) they are worth a visit. On one of your evenings, head over to the Taj Mahal hotel for shopping (some very good shops) and have dinner here. They have an Indian restaurant that usually has live music. The National Museum on Janpath is also worth a visit if Indian art and antiquities are of interest (Janpath lane, Connaught Place). The Craft Museum is also interesting and has a shop (Bhairon Road, Pragati Maidan, New Delhi). If you like modern art, the National Gallery of Modern Art is in Jaipur House near India Gate and has a good collection, mainly of Indian artists. Note that most museums in Delhi are closed on Mondays. The Hauz Khas area of New Delhi is a small kind of charming "village" with shops and restaurants, would be nice for lunch maybe one afternoon. One restaurant I can recommend is Top of the Village Bistro, 12, Hauz Khas Village, Tel : 26853857, or 26522227.
2. I am a big fan of Agra, not a charming city, but very interesting. ). I totally agree on your wanting to see the Taj at sunrise and sunset, it looks different at all times of day. IMO it is one of the few sights in the world that does not disappoint or grow stale. If your tour is not going to Fatephur Sikri, I would definitely suggest you set aside a half day to do that. It is a very well preserved former royal city. You can hire a car and guide to take you there, it is about an hour outside Agra. Your hotel can arrange for both the car and the guide, which I think is the easiest although not always the most inexpensive. (But it is all relative, this is India, and everything is fairly inexpensive.) There is also great shopping in Agra. Give us an idea of you budget and we can suggest hotels; if you want to splurge, consider the Amaravilas. Take a look at the website for Oberoi hotels at oberoihotels.com.
3. The website for the Indian national railways is really difficult to use, IMO. All you need to know is that there are several trains a day to Agra from Delhi, and they take about 3 hours. You can get your hotel to give you the time schedule and they can also purchase a ticket. You could also hire a car and drier to drive you to Agra. It is up to you, the time is about the same. It is a bit more convenient to drive if you will have a lot luggage, etc, but I love Indian trains (I actually love Indian train stations). Your hotel in Deli could arrange for a car and driver. (The only way I have yet figured out how to use the website is to go to indianrail.gov.in, and click on "Trains Between Important Stations". Choose New Delhi as your departure and Agra Cantt as your arrival. This will show you a schedule. Agra Cantt is the main train station in Agra, it stands for Agra Cantonment)
4. As for hotels in Delhi if the Le Meridien is not offering you a deal, I would heartily recommend the Imperial. This is a lovely low-rise colonial-style hotel in a garden, just a few blocks from the Meridien. The area is a great location for touring by yourself, as you can walk to the Rajpath area, and walk in the other direction to Connaught Place. The great Central Cottages Emporium full of Rajasthan handicrafts at amazing prices is about a 10 minute walk, away, definitely worth a trip. The National Museum and the Gallery of Modern Art are close by. I find it a very convenient location and I like the lower key of the hotel, the gardens and the friendliness of the staff. Take a look at www.theimperialindia.com and contact them for rates.
1. I can't tell which tour you are on, but none of the General Tours seem to spend more than one day in Delhi if I have read the itineraries correctly. Therefore, I would split your time between Delhi and Agra. This will give you a chance to relax a bit and recover from jet lag rather than trying to rush out to another city. You arrive at 5 pm on Saturday, and I would spend Sunday and Monday morning in Delhi, then head by train to Agra in time for sunset at the Taj and stay for two nights there As for sightseeing in Delhi, I would recommend getting a guide and driver who will take you inside the Red Fort and the Friday Mosque (as I am assuming your tour will not do that, as you have one very full day of touring with the group). There is a museum in the Red Fort that is worth a visit. Other places to see which are interesting are Indira Ghandi's house and assassination site and Nehru's house (very large and elegant). A walk up along the RajPath from the India Gate to the Parliament buildings is a good way to see this part of the city (you will be passing through it on a bus on your tour with General Tours). If the gardens of the Presidential Palace at the top of Rajpath are open (February to April) they are worth a visit. On one of your evenings, head over to the Taj Mahal hotel for shopping (some very good shops) and have dinner here. They have an Indian restaurant that usually has live music. The National Museum on Janpath is also worth a visit if Indian art and antiquities are of interest (Janpath lane, Connaught Place). The Craft Museum is also interesting and has a shop (Bhairon Road, Pragati Maidan, New Delhi). If you like modern art, the National Gallery of Modern Art is in Jaipur House near India Gate and has a good collection, mainly of Indian artists. Note that most museums in Delhi are closed on Mondays. The Hauz Khas area of New Delhi is a small kind of charming "village" with shops and restaurants, would be nice for lunch maybe one afternoon. One restaurant I can recommend is Top of the Village Bistro, 12, Hauz Khas Village, Tel : 26853857, or 26522227.
2. I am a big fan of Agra, not a charming city, but very interesting. ). I totally agree on your wanting to see the Taj at sunrise and sunset, it looks different at all times of day. IMO it is one of the few sights in the world that does not disappoint or grow stale. If your tour is not going to Fatephur Sikri, I would definitely suggest you set aside a half day to do that. It is a very well preserved former royal city. You can hire a car and guide to take you there, it is about an hour outside Agra. Your hotel can arrange for both the car and the guide, which I think is the easiest although not always the most inexpensive. (But it is all relative, this is India, and everything is fairly inexpensive.) There is also great shopping in Agra. Give us an idea of you budget and we can suggest hotels; if you want to splurge, consider the Amaravilas. Take a look at the website for Oberoi hotels at oberoihotels.com.
3. The website for the Indian national railways is really difficult to use, IMO. All you need to know is that there are several trains a day to Agra from Delhi, and they take about 3 hours. You can get your hotel to give you the time schedule and they can also purchase a ticket. You could also hire a car and drier to drive you to Agra. It is up to you, the time is about the same. It is a bit more convenient to drive if you will have a lot luggage, etc, but I love Indian trains (I actually love Indian train stations). Your hotel in Deli could arrange for a car and driver. (The only way I have yet figured out how to use the website is to go to indianrail.gov.in, and click on "Trains Between Important Stations". Choose New Delhi as your departure and Agra Cantt as your arrival. This will show you a schedule. Agra Cantt is the main train station in Agra, it stands for Agra Cantonment)
4. As for hotels in Delhi if the Le Meridien is not offering you a deal, I would heartily recommend the Imperial. This is a lovely low-rise colonial-style hotel in a garden, just a few blocks from the Meridien. The area is a great location for touring by yourself, as you can walk to the Rajpath area, and walk in the other direction to Connaught Place. The great Central Cottages Emporium full of Rajasthan handicrafts at amazing prices is about a 10 minute walk, away, definitely worth a trip. The National Museum and the Gallery of Modern Art are close by. I find it a very convenient location and I like the lower key of the hotel, the gardens and the friendliness of the staff. Take a look at www.theimperialindia.com and contact them for rates.
Feb 10th, 2004, 03:45 AM
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WOW! Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you! I go to bed with questions on India and wake up to very helpful replies.
Below is a copy of the trip and hotels. We cannot change the tour hotels.
Grandeur of India & Nepal
Delhi, Jaipur, Agra, Varanasi, Kathmandu and Temple Tiger in Royal Chitwan National Park.
Day 1 Depart USA
Today you'll board your flight to the exotic subcontinent of India.
Day 2 Arrive Delhi, India
Arriving in Delhi in the late-evening, you'll transfer to your hotel (Le Meridien) where your evening is free.
Day 3 Explore Delhi
The best place to begin your exploration of Delhi is in the old section of the city. On a rickshaw you'll see its showpiece, the Red Fort - the most opulent Fort and Palace of the Moghul Empire. The fort's Lahore Gate faces Chandni Chowk, the bustling and colorful market of the old city. At Raj Ghat, the memorial to Mahatma Gandhi, you'll stop to see the simple square platform of black marble that marks the place where Mahatma Gandhi was cremated. After lunch the tour continues through New Delhi, designed and built by King George V's architects as an "Imperial City." You'll begin at Delhi's main avenue, the Rajpath, and see the India Gate and the imposing Presidential Palace before stopping to visit Qutab Minar and Emperor Humayun's Tomb. (B,D)
Day 4 Travel to Jaipur
Today you'll travel to Jaipur, Rajasthan's Pink City. Following an afternoon arrival, the rest of the day is free to explore the old bazaars of the city. (Sheraton)(B,D)
Day 5 Explore Jaipur
This morning's exciting excursion takes us just north of Jaipur to the Amber Palace. Riding on elegantly caparisoned elephants, we approach the fort in the traditional way; the high gateways allow us to enter on these broad-backed animals. The afternoon is spent touring the city of Jaipur, with visits to the astonishingly accurate observatory of Maharajah Jai Singh, built in 1727, the elaborate Palace of the Winds, and the art-filled City Palace. (Sheraton)(B,D)
Day 6 Drive to Agra
Rajasthan is filled with life and color. As you drive to Jaipur, you'll see women dressed in brilliant saris, camels, elephants and scenes of rural life. We'll stop at the perfectly preserved, red sandstone "ghost town" of Fatehpur Sikr. This fairy tale city and its "ruins" are still in pristine condition making it easy to imagine what the court life must have been like in the days of its heyday. After arriving in Agra, you'll check in to the hotel and then head directly to the Taj Mahal for a first look at this beautiful structure. The Taj Mahal, built by Emperor Shah Jahan in memory of his beloved queen, took 20,000 craftsmen over 18 years to complete. We';ll also visit the Agra Fort and drive through the local markets. Our evening is free. (Sheraton)(B)
Day 7 Travel to Varanasi
We fly to Varanasi (also known as Benares), one of the oldest cities in the world and the center of the Hindu faith. This afternoon we see that this area holds a special place for Buddhist devotees as well. Just south of Varanasi we visit Sarnath, the spot where Buddha delivered his first sermon, and its excellent archeological museum that displays the capital of the Ashoka Pillar: a circle of back-to-back lions that has become the state symbol of the modern Indian Republic. (Taj Ganges)(B)
Day 8 Morning on the Ganges River / Fly to Kathmandu, Nepal
At dawn, you'll take a boat ride on the Ganges River and see thousands of devout Hindus descend to the holy waters of the Ganges for purification - a moving sight. Next, fly to Nepal, a kingdom at the top of the world. (Hyatt)(B)
Day 9 Temple Tiger Jungle Lodge, Royal Chitwan National Park
True adventure awaits us as we motor south to Royal Chitwan National Park where we check-in to Temple Tiger - one of the parks best lodges and much like it's counterpart Tiger Tops. Temple Tiger, however, is in the section of the park known to be the best area for game viewing. In the early evening we climb aboard our choice of elephants or jeeps and head into the jungle for game viewing. Our goal: a sighting of the rare one-horned Asian rhinoceros. If we're lucky we may see tigers, leopards, bears, wild boars, elephants, deer, and wild ox. (TTJL)(B,L,D)
Day 10 Temple Tiger Jungle Lodge
Today we enjoy game viewing from a different perspective; a naturalist leads us on a morning walk to spot some of the park's wildlife. Free time in midday allows us time to rest before another game excursion in the evening. (TTJL) (B,L,D)
Day 11 Game Viewing /Drive to Kathmandu
A morning of game viewing is followed by a return to Kathmandu, where there's time to explore the city or just relax. (Hyatt)(B,L)
Day 12 Explore the Kathmandu Valley
Seizing the chance of a lifetime this morning, weather permitting, you have the opportunity for an optional flight around Mt. Everest. Later, we'll walk through Kathmandu?s colorful Durbar Square to see the Hanuman Dhoka, the ancient royal residential quarter and the house of the Kumari Devi - believed to be a living Goddess. We'll continue to the Kathmandu Valley to visit one of the ancient capitals of Nepal, Bhadgaon. Get your camera ready for a visit to Bodhnath stupa whose all-seeing eyes gaze over the entire valley. You'll also see one of the holiest Hindu shrines in the world - Pashupatinath. (Hyatt)(B)
Day 13 Fly to Delhi
Today you'll fly back to Delhi where the afternoon is free. (Le Meridien)(B)
Day 14 Return to USA
You'll be escorted to the airport for your trip home. Alternatively, continue your travel in India with one of our Travel Beyond extensions. (B)
Carefully Selected Hotels
Royal Chitwan National Park - Temple Tiger Lodge
Individual lodges furnished with twin beds, attached bathroom with running hot and cold water. Each has a private balcony for relaxation.
Delhi - Le Meridien
Jaipur - Rajputana Palace Sheraton
Agra - Mughal Sheraton
Varanasi - Taj Ganges
Kathmandu - Hyatt Regency
----------
Sameera - my number one goal is to see the Taj Mahal at sunrise/sunset and with good weather. That is the main reason for wanting to stay in Agra a few days in case there is bad weather, I could always go another day. Last year I went to the Great Barrier Reef and happened to hit "an extremely unusual" weather day with 6-8ft swells on my only day on the reef. Needless to say, my experience was not ideal.
One aspect I 'think' I would really enjoy is a 1-night camel safari. I'm just thinking Jaisalmer is too far to also fit in my extra night(s) in Agra.
Cicerone - I will be in Delhi 1/2 day Tuesday, all day Wednesday with the tour group and a 1/2 day my day of departure. The tour is not going to the Friday Mosque, but is going to Fatehpur Sikr.
The group is staying at the Le Meridien in Delhi and Sheraton in Agra. We are not able to change the hotels. If we do spend extra nights in Delhi, it would be at the Marriott as it would be free for me because of Marriott points. We don't have a budget to include Amaravilas in Agra, so I am thinking on staying at the Jaypee Palace (although I don't recall reading anyones opinion on that hotel). Or I could just stay at the Sheraton again.
I'm glad I'm not the only one to find their railways site non-user-friendly. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where the train stations are located. Is it possible to catch a train to Agra Saturday night?
Besides a possible camel safari, I am also considering a trip to Amrisar's Golden Temple OR Udaipur:
Amritsar's Golden Temple
2 Days for $299 including train travel
Leaving on board the Shatabdi Express, you'll travel to Amritsar, one of the most ancient and fascinating cities of India. You'll stay in the first class Ritz Hotel, where breakfast is included. The arrival evening, visit India's final frontier - Wagah, the only border crossing between India and Pakistan. We've made arrangements for you to watch the spectacular sunset "banging of the gates" ceremony and changing of the guards at this army outpost and then pay an evening visit to the illuminated Golden Temple - the sacred place of worship for the Sikh religion. Here, recitation of the Sikh divine word never ceases. The Golden Temple's four gates invite everyone from all directions. The next day, tour Amritsar before re-boarding the train and returning to Delhi. Your train ticket, hotel, breakfast, taxes and service charges are covered. Prices are per person, sharing a room; single travelers pay a supplement.
-----
India's City of Dreams
2 Nights in Udaipur from $569 including airfare
Udaipur is perhaps the most romantic city in all of India, best known for the Lake Palace that rises out of the waters of Lake Pichola like an elegant fantasy in white marble. After flying in, you'll check into your hotel and then head out on a boat cruise on the serene and beautiful Lake Pichola. The second day brings an exploration of the city; we've arranged for you to visit the huge City Palace and its museum, the Jagdish temple and the spectacular Sahelion Ki Bari Garden. On your final day in Udaipur, there's an included transfer to the airport for your onward fight. Stay at the superior first class Trident Hotel for $569 per person, double. Or, admire the beauty of Udaipur from the classic Lake Palace for $799. For an out of this world experience, choose the fabulous Udaivilas Resort for your stay in Udaipur at $899 per person, double. Single supplements apply. Your flights, transfers, sightseeing and taxes are all included.
-----
We really haven't set a budget, but know we can't spend 4 nights at a $400/night hotel. Any help anyone can give is greatly appreciated.
Thanks again to both of you for your help! I am departing the states in 16-days and am very excited about my trip!
Warmly,
Stacey
Below is a copy of the trip and hotels. We cannot change the tour hotels.
Grandeur of India & Nepal
Delhi, Jaipur, Agra, Varanasi, Kathmandu and Temple Tiger in Royal Chitwan National Park.
Day 1 Depart USA
Today you'll board your flight to the exotic subcontinent of India.
Day 2 Arrive Delhi, India
Arriving in Delhi in the late-evening, you'll transfer to your hotel (Le Meridien) where your evening is free.
Day 3 Explore Delhi
The best place to begin your exploration of Delhi is in the old section of the city. On a rickshaw you'll see its showpiece, the Red Fort - the most opulent Fort and Palace of the Moghul Empire. The fort's Lahore Gate faces Chandni Chowk, the bustling and colorful market of the old city. At Raj Ghat, the memorial to Mahatma Gandhi, you'll stop to see the simple square platform of black marble that marks the place where Mahatma Gandhi was cremated. After lunch the tour continues through New Delhi, designed and built by King George V's architects as an "Imperial City." You'll begin at Delhi's main avenue, the Rajpath, and see the India Gate and the imposing Presidential Palace before stopping to visit Qutab Minar and Emperor Humayun's Tomb. (B,D)
Day 4 Travel to Jaipur
Today you'll travel to Jaipur, Rajasthan's Pink City. Following an afternoon arrival, the rest of the day is free to explore the old bazaars of the city. (Sheraton)(B,D)
Day 5 Explore Jaipur
This morning's exciting excursion takes us just north of Jaipur to the Amber Palace. Riding on elegantly caparisoned elephants, we approach the fort in the traditional way; the high gateways allow us to enter on these broad-backed animals. The afternoon is spent touring the city of Jaipur, with visits to the astonishingly accurate observatory of Maharajah Jai Singh, built in 1727, the elaborate Palace of the Winds, and the art-filled City Palace. (Sheraton)(B,D)
Day 6 Drive to Agra
Rajasthan is filled with life and color. As you drive to Jaipur, you'll see women dressed in brilliant saris, camels, elephants and scenes of rural life. We'll stop at the perfectly preserved, red sandstone "ghost town" of Fatehpur Sikr. This fairy tale city and its "ruins" are still in pristine condition making it easy to imagine what the court life must have been like in the days of its heyday. After arriving in Agra, you'll check in to the hotel and then head directly to the Taj Mahal for a first look at this beautiful structure. The Taj Mahal, built by Emperor Shah Jahan in memory of his beloved queen, took 20,000 craftsmen over 18 years to complete. We';ll also visit the Agra Fort and drive through the local markets. Our evening is free. (Sheraton)(B)
Day 7 Travel to Varanasi
We fly to Varanasi (also known as Benares), one of the oldest cities in the world and the center of the Hindu faith. This afternoon we see that this area holds a special place for Buddhist devotees as well. Just south of Varanasi we visit Sarnath, the spot where Buddha delivered his first sermon, and its excellent archeological museum that displays the capital of the Ashoka Pillar: a circle of back-to-back lions that has become the state symbol of the modern Indian Republic. (Taj Ganges)(B)
Day 8 Morning on the Ganges River / Fly to Kathmandu, Nepal
At dawn, you'll take a boat ride on the Ganges River and see thousands of devout Hindus descend to the holy waters of the Ganges for purification - a moving sight. Next, fly to Nepal, a kingdom at the top of the world. (Hyatt)(B)
Day 9 Temple Tiger Jungle Lodge, Royal Chitwan National Park
True adventure awaits us as we motor south to Royal Chitwan National Park where we check-in to Temple Tiger - one of the parks best lodges and much like it's counterpart Tiger Tops. Temple Tiger, however, is in the section of the park known to be the best area for game viewing. In the early evening we climb aboard our choice of elephants or jeeps and head into the jungle for game viewing. Our goal: a sighting of the rare one-horned Asian rhinoceros. If we're lucky we may see tigers, leopards, bears, wild boars, elephants, deer, and wild ox. (TTJL)(B,L,D)
Day 10 Temple Tiger Jungle Lodge
Today we enjoy game viewing from a different perspective; a naturalist leads us on a morning walk to spot some of the park's wildlife. Free time in midday allows us time to rest before another game excursion in the evening. (TTJL) (B,L,D)
Day 11 Game Viewing /Drive to Kathmandu
A morning of game viewing is followed by a return to Kathmandu, where there's time to explore the city or just relax. (Hyatt)(B,L)
Day 12 Explore the Kathmandu Valley
Seizing the chance of a lifetime this morning, weather permitting, you have the opportunity for an optional flight around Mt. Everest. Later, we'll walk through Kathmandu?s colorful Durbar Square to see the Hanuman Dhoka, the ancient royal residential quarter and the house of the Kumari Devi - believed to be a living Goddess. We'll continue to the Kathmandu Valley to visit one of the ancient capitals of Nepal, Bhadgaon. Get your camera ready for a visit to Bodhnath stupa whose all-seeing eyes gaze over the entire valley. You'll also see one of the holiest Hindu shrines in the world - Pashupatinath. (Hyatt)(B)
Day 13 Fly to Delhi
Today you'll fly back to Delhi where the afternoon is free. (Le Meridien)(B)
Day 14 Return to USA
You'll be escorted to the airport for your trip home. Alternatively, continue your travel in India with one of our Travel Beyond extensions. (B)
Carefully Selected Hotels
Royal Chitwan National Park - Temple Tiger Lodge
Individual lodges furnished with twin beds, attached bathroom with running hot and cold water. Each has a private balcony for relaxation.
Delhi - Le Meridien
Jaipur - Rajputana Palace Sheraton
Agra - Mughal Sheraton
Varanasi - Taj Ganges
Kathmandu - Hyatt Regency
----------
Sameera - my number one goal is to see the Taj Mahal at sunrise/sunset and with good weather. That is the main reason for wanting to stay in Agra a few days in case there is bad weather, I could always go another day. Last year I went to the Great Barrier Reef and happened to hit "an extremely unusual" weather day with 6-8ft swells on my only day on the reef. Needless to say, my experience was not ideal.
One aspect I 'think' I would really enjoy is a 1-night camel safari. I'm just thinking Jaisalmer is too far to also fit in my extra night(s) in Agra.
Cicerone - I will be in Delhi 1/2 day Tuesday, all day Wednesday with the tour group and a 1/2 day my day of departure. The tour is not going to the Friday Mosque, but is going to Fatehpur Sikr.
The group is staying at the Le Meridien in Delhi and Sheraton in Agra. We are not able to change the hotels. If we do spend extra nights in Delhi, it would be at the Marriott as it would be free for me because of Marriott points. We don't have a budget to include Amaravilas in Agra, so I am thinking on staying at the Jaypee Palace (although I don't recall reading anyones opinion on that hotel). Or I could just stay at the Sheraton again.
I'm glad I'm not the only one to find their railways site non-user-friendly. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where the train stations are located. Is it possible to catch a train to Agra Saturday night?
Besides a possible camel safari, I am also considering a trip to Amrisar's Golden Temple OR Udaipur:
Amritsar's Golden Temple
2 Days for $299 including train travel
Leaving on board the Shatabdi Express, you'll travel to Amritsar, one of the most ancient and fascinating cities of India. You'll stay in the first class Ritz Hotel, where breakfast is included. The arrival evening, visit India's final frontier - Wagah, the only border crossing between India and Pakistan. We've made arrangements for you to watch the spectacular sunset "banging of the gates" ceremony and changing of the guards at this army outpost and then pay an evening visit to the illuminated Golden Temple - the sacred place of worship for the Sikh religion. Here, recitation of the Sikh divine word never ceases. The Golden Temple's four gates invite everyone from all directions. The next day, tour Amritsar before re-boarding the train and returning to Delhi. Your train ticket, hotel, breakfast, taxes and service charges are covered. Prices are per person, sharing a room; single travelers pay a supplement.
-----
India's City of Dreams
2 Nights in Udaipur from $569 including airfare
Udaipur is perhaps the most romantic city in all of India, best known for the Lake Palace that rises out of the waters of Lake Pichola like an elegant fantasy in white marble. After flying in, you'll check into your hotel and then head out on a boat cruise on the serene and beautiful Lake Pichola. The second day brings an exploration of the city; we've arranged for you to visit the huge City Palace and its museum, the Jagdish temple and the spectacular Sahelion Ki Bari Garden. On your final day in Udaipur, there's an included transfer to the airport for your onward fight. Stay at the superior first class Trident Hotel for $569 per person, double. Or, admire the beauty of Udaipur from the classic Lake Palace for $799. For an out of this world experience, choose the fabulous Udaivilas Resort for your stay in Udaipur at $899 per person, double. Single supplements apply. Your flights, transfers, sightseeing and taxes are all included.
-----
We really haven't set a budget, but know we can't spend 4 nights at a $400/night hotel. Any help anyone can give is greatly appreciated.
Thanks again to both of you for your help! I am departing the states in 16-days and am very excited about my trip!
Warmly,
Stacey
Feb 10th, 2004, 08:07 AM
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Sorry, I though your original post said you were arriving into Delhi on a Sunday; in any event I would still say to split your time between Agra and Delhi if possible, and get to the Friday Mosque yourself as your tour is not doing it.
The Marriott in Delhi is a very nice hotel, fairly new, only drawback is it is not in a convenient location for sightseeing and there is not much in the neighbourhood of note. For a free hotel though, I would take it. It is close to the Qintab Minar and the Hauz Khas Village area, so you could easily go to Hauz Khas for lunch or dinner if you wanted.
With regard to the extra trips, bear in mind that you may be more tired than you expect, as travelling in India even in the winter is tiring. Also, you may end up taking longer to get places due to fog (esp flying into and out of Agra, Delhi and Varanasi) and may be tired of rushing around. I would not try to do too much, your 14-day itinerary is packed enough. If you want to add on, try to make it for at least 2 nights in a place, so you get a feel for it and can relax a bit as well.
I personally would not do the Amritsar trip, as you will be spending over 12 hours on a train in order to spend about 12 waking hours in the city. Much too short a trip for you to appreciate a totally different region and culture from Rajasthan. As you may have guessed, the Ritz Hotel there is not affiliate with the Ritz-Carlton chain.
In Agra, if you do your own trip I think I would choose the Sheraton over the Jaypee Palace, but I am sure the Jaypee is fine. (The hotels your tour is in are generally very good.)
With regard to the Udaipur trip, it looks expensive for what it is. You can fly yourself on Jet Airways for about US$220, and could do your own hotel.(Website for Jet Airways is jetairways.com. This is a private airline that is much superior, IMO, to Indian Air. Indian Air also flies for about the same price, but you have to make 2 connections and it takes 3 hours, as opposed to the 1 hour Jet Airways flight.) The boat tour is something you can do yourself and its not expensive, as is the City Palace tour, which I believe is free or a very cheap entrance fee. One drawback of doing it yourself is getting a hotel in Udaipur in February, as they are often booked. Personally, if I were going all that way I would pay for the Lake Palace, as it really is part of the charm of the place, and its location is great in terms of getting to the City Palace and other parts of Udaipur. I am a little leery of the Trident Hotel, as are really 2-3 star hotels and in some locations are quite old and run-down; however as they are run by Oberoi which generally operates very good hotels in India, that is a bit of a saving grace. Remember that the star or class rating in India is essentially meaningless, and should not be taken as an indication of quality. It has more to do with room size and facilities (which may be in terrible condition but if they are present the hotel gets the rating) than they have to do with quality and service.
With regard to trains to Agra from Delhi, if I have read the schedule correctly, the following trains run on Saturdays:
9368 Malwa Express, departs Delhi 7:20 pm arrives Agra Cantt 10:30 pm
7022 Dakshin Express, departs Delhi 8:30 pm, arrives Agra Cantt 11:30 pm
1058 ASR DR Express, departs Delhi 8:45 pm, arrives Agra Cantt midnight
2430 Bangalore Rjdhni, departs Delhi 8:50 pm, arrives Agra Cantt 10 pm
2628 Karnataka Express, departs Delhi 9:10 pm, arrives Agra Cantt 11:45 pm
1078 Jhelum Express, departs Delhi 11 pm, arrives Agra Cantt 1:30am
The Marriott in Delhi is a very nice hotel, fairly new, only drawback is it is not in a convenient location for sightseeing and there is not much in the neighbourhood of note. For a free hotel though, I would take it. It is close to the Qintab Minar and the Hauz Khas Village area, so you could easily go to Hauz Khas for lunch or dinner if you wanted.
With regard to the extra trips, bear in mind that you may be more tired than you expect, as travelling in India even in the winter is tiring. Also, you may end up taking longer to get places due to fog (esp flying into and out of Agra, Delhi and Varanasi) and may be tired of rushing around. I would not try to do too much, your 14-day itinerary is packed enough. If you want to add on, try to make it for at least 2 nights in a place, so you get a feel for it and can relax a bit as well.
I personally would not do the Amritsar trip, as you will be spending over 12 hours on a train in order to spend about 12 waking hours in the city. Much too short a trip for you to appreciate a totally different region and culture from Rajasthan. As you may have guessed, the Ritz Hotel there is not affiliate with the Ritz-Carlton chain.
In Agra, if you do your own trip I think I would choose the Sheraton over the Jaypee Palace, but I am sure the Jaypee is fine. (The hotels your tour is in are generally very good.)
With regard to the Udaipur trip, it looks expensive for what it is. You can fly yourself on Jet Airways for about US$220, and could do your own hotel.(Website for Jet Airways is jetairways.com. This is a private airline that is much superior, IMO, to Indian Air. Indian Air also flies for about the same price, but you have to make 2 connections and it takes 3 hours, as opposed to the 1 hour Jet Airways flight.) The boat tour is something you can do yourself and its not expensive, as is the City Palace tour, which I believe is free or a very cheap entrance fee. One drawback of doing it yourself is getting a hotel in Udaipur in February, as they are often booked. Personally, if I were going all that way I would pay for the Lake Palace, as it really is part of the charm of the place, and its location is great in terms of getting to the City Palace and other parts of Udaipur. I am a little leery of the Trident Hotel, as are really 2-3 star hotels and in some locations are quite old and run-down; however as they are run by Oberoi which generally operates very good hotels in India, that is a bit of a saving grace. Remember that the star or class rating in India is essentially meaningless, and should not be taken as an indication of quality. It has more to do with room size and facilities (which may be in terrible condition but if they are present the hotel gets the rating) than they have to do with quality and service.
With regard to trains to Agra from Delhi, if I have read the schedule correctly, the following trains run on Saturdays:
9368 Malwa Express, departs Delhi 7:20 pm arrives Agra Cantt 10:30 pm
7022 Dakshin Express, departs Delhi 8:30 pm, arrives Agra Cantt 11:30 pm
1058 ASR DR Express, departs Delhi 8:45 pm, arrives Agra Cantt midnight
2430 Bangalore Rjdhni, departs Delhi 8:50 pm, arrives Agra Cantt 10 pm
2628 Karnataka Express, departs Delhi 9:10 pm, arrives Agra Cantt 11:45 pm
1078 Jhelum Express, departs Delhi 11 pm, arrives Agra Cantt 1:30am
Feb 10th, 2004, 08:40 AM
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Stacey, please email me at [email protected] if you want advice. I took your General Tours trip to India 3 years ago. Cheers, John G.
Feb 10th, 2004, 03:13 PM
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I agree with Cicerone - the trip to Amritsar is not worth it for the time taken. U could also consider flying to Goa for a couple nights at the beach. U could probably use your points to stay at the Mariott Goa as well - despite its non beach location it is a great hotel. Flts to Goa work well for u as there is an early morning departure from Delhi by a local airline called Sahara Air which is reliable. The Del-Goa flt is a little over 2 hrs so not a killer. Another option is Khuajraho - trains there from Del are pretty good and u may enjoy it if u like temples and architecture. New Del railway station is not far from the Meridien tho traffic around the station is bad so u have to budget some time - 30 mins is good. Agra is a small city so the train stn is not far from most hotels - in any case ask your hotel for a transfer. The Shatabdi trains are very comfy - chair cars, express speed.
Feb 11th, 2004, 04:38 AM
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Once again THANK-YOU kind people to take the time to give your opinions to my questions. Cicerone, an extra thank-you for helping out with the train schedule...I still can't figure it out! 
I met with my travel partner yesterday to discuss your posted opinions as well as John G's email. At this point we are considering: upon arrival on Saturday at 5pm in Delhi - transferring to the train station to take one of the 4 trains departing between 8:30pm and 9:10pm. This will put us in Agra by midnight. Hopefully we will be settled in our rooms by 2am and can sleep in late, relax and recuperate during the day on Sunday. We would plan on staying until mid-morning on Tuesday (a total of 3 nights in Agra). This would give me the opportunity for 2 sunset photos (Sunday/Monday nights) and 2 sunrise photos (Monday/Tuesday mornings). We would then take the train back to Delhi mid-morning in hope of arriving in ND by noon (of course that being my being able to figure out the train schedule back!). That would give us 1/2 day in Delhi on Tuesday as well as all day on Wednesday before we met up with our group for breakfast on Thursday. I know many of you may not agree with 3 nights in Agra, but my #1 reason for traveling to India is photographing the Taj Mahal. I would be extremely disappointed if rain/clouds or whatever would ruin my chance of getting some decent photos.
I hope no one will be offended if a make a few posts in regards to their opinions on the Golden Temple or Udaipur. I would also like opinions on the Jaypee Palace compared to the Sheraton.
Thanks again to all who have helped. I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have taken to help a total stranger. May you have a blessed 2004.
Warmest personal regards,
Stacey
I met with my travel partner yesterday to discuss your posted opinions as well as John G's email. At this point we are considering: upon arrival on Saturday at 5pm in Delhi - transferring to the train station to take one of the 4 trains departing between 8:30pm and 9:10pm. This will put us in Agra by midnight. Hopefully we will be settled in our rooms by 2am and can sleep in late, relax and recuperate during the day on Sunday. We would plan on staying until mid-morning on Tuesday (a total of 3 nights in Agra). This would give me the opportunity for 2 sunset photos (Sunday/Monday nights) and 2 sunrise photos (Monday/Tuesday mornings). We would then take the train back to Delhi mid-morning in hope of arriving in ND by noon (of course that being my being able to figure out the train schedule back!). That would give us 1/2 day in Delhi on Tuesday as well as all day on Wednesday before we met up with our group for breakfast on Thursday. I know many of you may not agree with 3 nights in Agra, but my #1 reason for traveling to India is photographing the Taj Mahal. I would be extremely disappointed if rain/clouds or whatever would ruin my chance of getting some decent photos.
I hope no one will be offended if a make a few posts in regards to their opinions on the Golden Temple or Udaipur. I would also like opinions on the Jaypee Palace compared to the Sheraton.
Thanks again to all who have helped. I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have taken to help a total stranger. May you have a blessed 2004.
Warmest personal regards,
Stacey
Feb 11th, 2004, 06:32 AM
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Stacey, I just read your itin. and our itin. was different than yours in that we stayed 2 nights at the Mughal Sheraton in Agra. This gave us the opportunity to spend the entire day at the Taj Mahal, from sunrise to sunset. I don't know why General Tours changed their trip plan. I also did not mention that I arrived a day early in Delhi, which you need because 1 1/2 days is not enough. Cheers, John G.
Feb 11th, 2004, 08:41 AM
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Stacy, a few comments on your post
If you are concerned about making your train, it might be easer to arrange for a car and driver to meet you at Delhi airport when you arrive and drive you straight to Agra. The drive takes about 3 hours, so you would make up quite a bit of time as compared to getting into Delhi and catching whatever the next train would be, which may mean a wait of an hour or more. If two people or more split it, it may not be much more than the train fare (plus the taxi fare from Delhi airport to Delhi train station and from Agra train station to your hotel). The Meriden in Delhi could arrange this or whatever hotel you choose in Agra could as well, just send them an e-mail or a fax for a fare quote.
I have no problem with three days in Agra, as I like the town. In addition to the Taj, there are wonderful photo opportunities of and from the Agra Fort, including beautiful views of the Taj. With regard to the Taj, you will pay about US$20 for each entrance, so if you only go in the morning to take a picture, you have to pay again if you come back in the afternoon.
Outside the walls of the Taj, there are dirt roads on the right and left leading to the river. If you go down these and along the banks, you can get some good views. Also, if you go across the river, you can get some good views.
You can go into the grounds of the Amarvilas to take photos, and I would suggest at least one meal here. I have seen good photos taken from the verandah by the bar and the pool area. The Amarvilas is good for night shots, as the Taj is generally closed at night. There is viewing tower at the Sheraton where you can see and take photos of the Taj. There is a rooftop restaurant at Clark's Shiraz hotel (54 Taj Road) which has interesting views of the Taj over the rooftops.
Take a look at sunrisesunset.com for sunset and twilight times in New Delhi by month, as well as moon phases. Should be about the same time for Agra.
If you have time, you might want to go to Faetphur Sikri on your own, as it appears your tour will only spend maybe 1-2 hours there, which will make it hard to see the whole place and appreciate it. There is a giant Parcheesi board (slave girls were used as pieces) that is worth setting up for a shot. There are usually guys at the front entrance who will dive into the water tank at the entrance gate for a small fee. There is a temple inside the main square which unmarried girls go to in hopes of obtaining a husband. For a small donation, you can participate in the ritual which involves tying a piece of string to the marble screen of the temple, and tossing spices into a fire. Fun and photographic (but no guaranteed results of course. . .)
There are great photo opportunities in the city of Agra and Delhi, as well as at trains stations. It is polite to ask to take someone's photo (some people still have a superstition about this), and I personally never take photos of people worshipping because I would not like the same done to me. Don't be surprised if Indians ask you to be in their photos, esp if you are alone or with other women. (Has happened to me since I was in my late 20s and am now in my mid-forties, so it has nothing to do with youth. If you are with a man you are generally not asked to be included in a photo.)
With regard to train schedules, I provide them with the caveat that I may have read the schedule wrong, and they may change from time to time. I would suggest you ask General Tours to get you a correct train schedule, or fax the Meriden and ask for one. You don't need to buy a ticket now, but you should have the latest schedule.
Here is how I see the return trains from Agra-Delhi on Tuesdays:
2627 Karnataka Exp, departs Agra Cantt 8:10 am, arrives Delhi 12:10 pm
8477 Utkal Express, depart Agra Cantt 9:30 am, arrive Delhi 1:30 pm
2617 Mangala Ldweep, depart Agra Cantt 11:30 am, arrive Delhi 3:15 pm
2625 Kerala Express, depart Agra Cantt 12:16, arrives Delhi 4:00 pm
2647 Kongu Express, departs Agra Cantt 1:40 pm, arrives H Nizamuddin 4:45 pm
3007 U/ABHATOOFANEXP, depart Agra Cantt 3:30 pm, arrive Delhi 9:15pm
8237 CHATTISGARH EXP, depart Agra Cantt 3:40 pm, arrive Delhi 8:00 pm
8518 VSKP Krba Exp, depart Agra Cantt 3:40 pm, arrive Delhi 8:00 pm
2137 PUNJAB MAIL, depart Agra Cantt 4:45 pm, arrive Delhi 8:20
Note that all the trains depart and arrive at New Delhi station, except #2647 which arrives at Hazrat Nizamuddin train station , which is located southeast of Connaught Place near the river. The New Delhi train station is north of Connaught Place not far from the Red Fort. (There is also a station in Old Delhi, but I don?t think any Agra trains arrive or depart there.)
There may be many more trains arriving or departing from Nizamuddin. I cannot find anything. There used to be a train called the Taj Express which left from Nizamuddin around 7:30 am for people wanting to go for the day, and I believe there were other trains from here as well. You might check with General Tours or your hotel in Delhi or Agra.
I agree with Thingorjus that you might want more time in Delhi. If you take the 9:30 am train, you would have time to see sunrise at the Taj and still get to Delhi with half a day left.
If you are concerned about making your train, it might be easer to arrange for a car and driver to meet you at Delhi airport when you arrive and drive you straight to Agra. The drive takes about 3 hours, so you would make up quite a bit of time as compared to getting into Delhi and catching whatever the next train would be, which may mean a wait of an hour or more. If two people or more split it, it may not be much more than the train fare (plus the taxi fare from Delhi airport to Delhi train station and from Agra train station to your hotel). The Meriden in Delhi could arrange this or whatever hotel you choose in Agra could as well, just send them an e-mail or a fax for a fare quote.
I have no problem with three days in Agra, as I like the town. In addition to the Taj, there are wonderful photo opportunities of and from the Agra Fort, including beautiful views of the Taj. With regard to the Taj, you will pay about US$20 for each entrance, so if you only go in the morning to take a picture, you have to pay again if you come back in the afternoon.
Outside the walls of the Taj, there are dirt roads on the right and left leading to the river. If you go down these and along the banks, you can get some good views. Also, if you go across the river, you can get some good views.
You can go into the grounds of the Amarvilas to take photos, and I would suggest at least one meal here. I have seen good photos taken from the verandah by the bar and the pool area. The Amarvilas is good for night shots, as the Taj is generally closed at night. There is viewing tower at the Sheraton where you can see and take photos of the Taj. There is a rooftop restaurant at Clark's Shiraz hotel (54 Taj Road) which has interesting views of the Taj over the rooftops.
Take a look at sunrisesunset.com for sunset and twilight times in New Delhi by month, as well as moon phases. Should be about the same time for Agra.
If you have time, you might want to go to Faetphur Sikri on your own, as it appears your tour will only spend maybe 1-2 hours there, which will make it hard to see the whole place and appreciate it. There is a giant Parcheesi board (slave girls were used as pieces) that is worth setting up for a shot. There are usually guys at the front entrance who will dive into the water tank at the entrance gate for a small fee. There is a temple inside the main square which unmarried girls go to in hopes of obtaining a husband. For a small donation, you can participate in the ritual which involves tying a piece of string to the marble screen of the temple, and tossing spices into a fire. Fun and photographic (but no guaranteed results of course. . .)
There are great photo opportunities in the city of Agra and Delhi, as well as at trains stations. It is polite to ask to take someone's photo (some people still have a superstition about this), and I personally never take photos of people worshipping because I would not like the same done to me. Don't be surprised if Indians ask you to be in their photos, esp if you are alone or with other women. (Has happened to me since I was in my late 20s and am now in my mid-forties, so it has nothing to do with youth. If you are with a man you are generally not asked to be included in a photo.)
With regard to train schedules, I provide them with the caveat that I may have read the schedule wrong, and they may change from time to time. I would suggest you ask General Tours to get you a correct train schedule, or fax the Meriden and ask for one. You don't need to buy a ticket now, but you should have the latest schedule.
Here is how I see the return trains from Agra-Delhi on Tuesdays:
2627 Karnataka Exp, departs Agra Cantt 8:10 am, arrives Delhi 12:10 pm
8477 Utkal Express, depart Agra Cantt 9:30 am, arrive Delhi 1:30 pm
2617 Mangala Ldweep, depart Agra Cantt 11:30 am, arrive Delhi 3:15 pm
2625 Kerala Express, depart Agra Cantt 12:16, arrives Delhi 4:00 pm
2647 Kongu Express, departs Agra Cantt 1:40 pm, arrives H Nizamuddin 4:45 pm
3007 U/ABHATOOFANEXP, depart Agra Cantt 3:30 pm, arrive Delhi 9:15pm
8237 CHATTISGARH EXP, depart Agra Cantt 3:40 pm, arrive Delhi 8:00 pm
8518 VSKP Krba Exp, depart Agra Cantt 3:40 pm, arrive Delhi 8:00 pm
2137 PUNJAB MAIL, depart Agra Cantt 4:45 pm, arrive Delhi 8:20
Note that all the trains depart and arrive at New Delhi station, except #2647 which arrives at Hazrat Nizamuddin train station , which is located southeast of Connaught Place near the river. The New Delhi train station is north of Connaught Place not far from the Red Fort. (There is also a station in Old Delhi, but I don?t think any Agra trains arrive or depart there.)
There may be many more trains arriving or departing from Nizamuddin. I cannot find anything. There used to be a train called the Taj Express which left from Nizamuddin around 7:30 am for people wanting to go for the day, and I believe there were other trains from here as well. You might check with General Tours or your hotel in Delhi or Agra.
I agree with Thingorjus that you might want more time in Delhi. If you take the 9:30 am train, you would have time to see sunrise at the Taj and still get to Delhi with half a day left.
