Thanks for all your help. Just to clarify.

Re Day 6, I meant it was written. I think we could do both Nara and Osaka on the same day and return to Kyoto -- see Todaiji in the morning / early afternoon , and then we'd just be going to Osaka for the late afternoon/evening mainly to walk around Dotonbori. Seems less of a hassle to go back to Kyoto than having to stay 1 night at a hotel in Osaka. Do you think this isn't doable? We'd rather spend 45 mins going back from Osaka to Kyoto than check into a new hotel.

Re Day 10, it is indeed an "extra day" at this point and not necessarily a day in Fukuoka. We have the final morning in Fukoka on Day 11, and I'm not sure Fukuoka is worth 1.5 days on this short itinerary. Day 10 certainly *can* be a day trip from Fukuoka or something. But we could simply make Day 10 the day we arrive in Fukuoka, see the sumo that afternoon, and then leave on Day 11. Maybe that's short changing Fukuoka / Kyushuu on this itinerary, but it's certainly an option to do it this way and add in another day in, say, Tokyo...

>> make Osaka into a 2 night stay and cut one night from Kyoto,
I think I understand now: you were thinking of changing Kyoto 4 nights into 2 Kyoto and 2 Osaka. Anyway, sure the Nara/Osaka day trip is doable. The 4 nights in Kyoto makes sense.

Day 10 - Arriving Fukuoka on day 10 is doable thought it goes against your desire to avoid 1-night stays. Might ship luggage to FUK on Day 8 (or maybe 7 or maybe Day 9).
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For Kyushu Bassho they have busses from Hakata Station that go directly to the sumo venue (tho I think I was dropped offf across the street the last time). The bus goes from the front of the station where there are several bus stops. You would do well to study and figure out - in advance - which bus stop you need. It is busy and can be confusing.

You want to be inside, if not seated in, the Fukuoka Kokusai Center by 1 PM. You can get their in the morning but the matches before noon are entirely optional. I can write more about attending if you are interested or you can just discover it on your own.

By, front of the station I mean the main entrance, the Fukuoka side. The other, back, side is the Hakata side. IIRC, when you come down the escalator from the shinkansen side you will be at the Hakata side entrance. The cinammon rolls are worth getting in line for.

You can stash your luggage in a koin rokka before heading to the bus stop. If you have time and you stay at a hotel by the station you can drop luggage there. I stayed twice at a hotel that is a couple blocks walk from Hakata side of the station. It was comfy but there might be lodging a bit closer. IDR if there is lodging on the front side of the station.

FUK airport is easy to get to. There is rail from Hakata Station to the airport and then a shuttle bus to the international terminals. So, staying near the station is convenient for both the sumo and the flight.

But, taxi is not expensive. I think I paid about 3000 to 3500 from a domestic terminal to Canal City (Grand Hyatt) which was ok with me, but it could have been much cheaper by transit.

So, here's what I get for the rail pass calculator :


So, if we spend an extra day in Kyoto or something and don't do Hiroshima-Fukuoka until after the rail pass expires (i.e., the "8th day" of the 7 day rail pass), it seems like it's not even worth it to buy the rail pass. In other words, it only makes sense to buy the pass if we get to Fukuoka by the end of Day 7...

Yes, that was my point when I wrote this:

You would need to leave Tokyo on Day 1 and get to Fukuoka on Day 7 of the JRP for it to work.

You would get a couple of benefits by not using the pass:
- you can take any Nozomi shinkansen to Kyoto instead of being limited to the slower Hikari trains
- you can go straight on through from Kyoto on the shinkansen with no train changes on the faster and more frequent Nozomi
- take any of the fastest shinkansen from Hiroshima to Hakata (Mizuho, Nozomi, Sakura)

- not having the pass makes it easier to choose one of the non-JR options to get to and/or from Miyajima.

- not having the pass makes it easier to choose Kintetsu trains instead of JR for Kyoto- Nara and/or Nara- Osaka.

Yeah, I definitely think we should just do what we want -- not worth letting $50 decide our itinerary.

I'm still torn. I suppose there's three options:

1) add a 3rd full day (and 4th night) in Tokyo. We have 2 full days, and I'm thinking we'd just skip the Sensoji and Meiji temples to prevent temple OD before we even get to Kyoto. We could spend more time in the city just doing city stuff, or do a half day trip or full day trip somewhere. Was even thinking Yokohama for the Kirin beer tour. [EDIT: We really already have almost 3 full days in Tokyo if we wait until the late afternoon on Day 3 to take the train to Kyoto. So almost 4 day sin Tokyo may be imbalanced.]

2) Instead of the 4 nights in Kyoto (with 3 full days, including a day trip to Nara and Osaka), we'd do 3 nights in Kyoto and 2 nights in Osaka. I don't like the idea of adding another hotel, and I'm not sure we'll find Osaka worth an entire extra day.

3) Use the extra day doing a day trip from Fukuoka among the various ideas mentioned in this thread. Lots of good ideas, but no one particular idea stands out particularly more than the others, so I'm not sure.

>> skip the Sensoji and Meiji temples

Do not skip Meiji Jingu. Please! This is a don't miss in November. It is worth visiting any time of the year, but there are particularly good days in November.

November 15 is Shichgosan, Shichi-Go-San, 7-5-3 day and Meiji Jingu is the place to go. It is celebrated on the days around the 15th and, especially, on the weekends before and after that date. Little kids in kimono, like the 3 year old girl in my profile picture taken at the entrance to the shrine park.

I wrote "shrine park" because the shrine is in a beautiful forested park and it is an easy stroll. The shrine is amazing. There is also a spot to visit along the way that I missed the first time (a princess's summer house, or boat house, or something, by a small lake) that is worth a few minutes. Even if the shrine wasn't there it would be worthwhile to visit the park to get away from the chaos of the city.

You can also explore the Harajuku neighborhood (better on weekends, I think, for the cosplayers). You will be taking the train to Harajuku Station to get to the shrine.

At the shrine, you might get to see a traditional Shinto wedding party. It is ok to take photos (unobtrusively). This is better than you might think.

More likely to see a wedding on the weekend than on a weekday, but there is a calendar identifying lucky days that are considered to be more auspicious for a wedding.

According to the calendar linked below, go to MJ in the morning for wedding and shichigosan and then Harajuku on Sunday the 12th (lucky in morning). the 14th luck all day, the 15th for 7-5-3 day, or the afternoon of the 18th.

ROKUYO – Lucky & Unlucky Days of the Japanese Calendar (seiyaku.com)

>> So almost 4 day sin Tokyo may be imbalanced.

1) Not really. There is a lot to see and do in Tokyo with four full days and no day trips. It has city stuff due to it being the largest metro area in the world. At this point, I think you need to look more closely at what it offers.

2) My advice is that you just stick to Kyoto so that you have enough time for there. When people post their itineraries here that include Osaka I usually ask: why Osaka? It is worth a visit, but the attractions are not as obvious as Kyoto or Hiroshima where I don't have to ask that question. Can you give me an Osaka site that you are compelled to visit? Gotta see/do it. (i would not recco adding a day to Kyoto, am not a fan, but some would say it is worth a week, at least)

3) This is a good idea. Day trip is an option that you can choose, or not, on the day. Fukuoka is a nice city (it is where I would choose to live). It has city stuff. It would be good to have a nice relaxing day there at the end of a fast-paced two-week trip before eaving the country. (adding a night to Tokyo would be a good 2nd choice, imo)

You have lots of good choices and can't really go wrong.

btw, Sensoji is a temple (Buddhist) while Meiji Jingu is a shrine (Shinto). Ok to skip Sensoji, imo. Nice temple, will be very busy, and all I remember around it was the street going to it had lots of souvenir vendors, probably a bit crammed these days.

oh, my post about Meiji Jingu hasn't made it through moderation yet. I hope it does soon. Bottom line is that I was advising (pleading/ordering) you not to skip MJ.

Thanks so much for all this!

So, for the "free day," what do you think of renting a car at Hakata station and doing Kurokawa Onsen as a day trip (possibly combined w a stop at Mt Aso? too rushed?). We're thinking an onsen town day would be nice. Looking into Kurokawa, Beppu and Yufuin. Kurokawa seems the nicest of the three, but I really have no idea. The scenic train to Yufuin (Yufuin no Mori) also looks nice.

Those are all good ideas. I think Kurokawa is the one that might better be visited by car. IDK, for sure as I have not looked into how to get there. Yufuin would be easy by train. Beppu would be third choice - easy enough to get there by rail but I don't quite have a handle on getting around that city.

I don't drive in Japan. Wrong side of the road. Different signage. Rental costs. Fuel costs. And lots of toll roads with expensive tolls (maybe not for your route). Parking.

And your other day trip ideas are not crazy, like Kagoshima. Just not my preference. End of the trip and flying the next day, a relaxing day in Fukuoko sounds good to me.

How far in advance do you have to commit to a car rental reservation? Is there a cancellation or no-show penalty? In the US the answer would be no, you are not committed until you show up at the rental car counter.

I assume that the Yufuin no Mori would need seat reservations in advance. I believe the seat reservation fee can be cancelled for a refund. That fee would not be very much to lose, I think. I guess that would open the possibility where a train is sold out but seats become available up to the last minute due to cancellations.

Am wondering if those options can be left open until the day. Am virtually certain that the OP could show up at Hakata station and buy reserved seats on the next shinkansen to Kagoshima (or Kumamoto to visit castle and garden) or go unreserved. But the Yufuin no Mori might be sold out.