we will be doing a 12 day trip in Yunnan early this december. we are most interested in the seeing the rice terraces and experiencing the countryside of yunnan. here's our basic plan. we would appreciate any comments and recommendation. also, does anyone know just how cold it would get in yunnan around december?

day 1 - arrive in kumming, bus to Jianshui
day 2 - jianshui
day 3 - bus to yuanyang
day 4 - yuanyang
day 5 - yuanyang ; overnight bus back to kumming
day 6 - kumming; bus to dali
day 7 - dali
day 8 - dali; bus to lijiang
day 9 - lijiang
day 10 - day trip to TLG
day 11 - lijiang
day 12- fly back to kumming; leave from kumming

is that too much travelling? should we do less places? if so, which ones should we cut??
thanks.

Two long bus rides back-to-back from Yuanyang to Kunming to Dali is not a good idea.

Either take overnight train from Kunming to Dali, or fly from Kunming to Dali on Day 6.

Or investigate the possibility of busing from Yuanyang to Simou, and then fly from there. [Probably won't save you time, but you can visit one more place that way.] There is a one-stop flight from Simou via Lincang to Dali daily, I believe.

i do agree.... i am now thinking of cutting dali out. so on day 6 we will just fly to lijiang and maybe spend 2 days at the TLG. i really wanted to see dali, but losing a day and a half on the bus for a 12 days trips seems to be too much!

Well, I think it's still okay for you to go to Dali from Lijiang.

BTW, I apologize for the spelling. In my previous post, the city in Southern Yunnan with airport is spelled <b>Simao</b>.

You are not missing much in dali. You will see more and better in Lijiang.

My husband and I spent three nights in Yuanyang last January as I really wanted to photograph the rice terraces and in the winter you have the best chance of clear weather. Yuanyang's weather is very hit or miss though and we ended up with three days of pea soup. I am not exaggerating when I say that we couldn't see 50 feet in front of us for three days. I was told such weather wasn't unusual. I'm not saying you shouldn't go but just prepare yourself for the possibility of very limited visibility.

Re the cold, it was about 50 degrees F (inside the hotel room and outside) -- we definitely bundled up to sleep.

Fly to Dali/Lijiang. I much prefer Lijiang to Dali but perhaps it's a good idea to just spend a night in Dali to compare. When in Kunming, do visit the Jiu Xiang caves which is about an hour from Kunming and easily reached via a highway. These caves are only visited by the Chinese, I didn't see any westerners there. We chanced upon it when we saw some photos of travertine cascading pools in a cave. There's also a waterfall in the cave. It's the most impressive cave I've visited with the waterfall and cascading pools.
Remember to try the Lijiang papa pastry. We had a great meal in Kunming, the restaurant specialised in mushrooms served in a hotpot, many many varieties of mushrooms.

I did something very similar to this, and would definitely opt for Lijiang over Dali as far as the surroundings are concerned, but Lijiang was more besieged by (Chinese) tourists.

I flew Kunming to Lijiang, took a local bus to Dali and the train back to Kunming, but I didn't have any time constraints. The trip report for my loop south from Kunming is at www.wilhelmswords.com/rtw2004.

I am not sure about your two days plus in Yuanyang. You are heading in the opposite direction of the rest of your stops, and although I have not been there, my trusty Brandt Yunnan Province Guide (2007) scarcely spends a page on it. Noted for its rice scenery, but for two-plus days?

I would suggest you lengthen your visit to northwest Yunnan, taking a day trip to Zhongdian, which will traverse TLG. (A private taxi ride was about 450 Yuan in August this year.) You will get on the Tibetan Plateau which may be of interest. A two-day trip can be accomplished by bus incorporating fantasic scenery with magnificent vistas along the way. Lijiang is overrun with tourists, but trips to Baisha and Jade Dragon Snow Mountain were excellent. From Dali, you can explore several interesting small villages, including Zhoucheng and Xizhou. Dali also has the new Buddhist Shrine built above the Three Pagodas, the largest Buddhist Shrine in China with maybe a dozen temples all told. I enjoyed the new Shrine far more than the fairly standard boat ride on Erhai Lake. (The new shrine is a re-creation on the site of the former major Chinese Shrine to Buddha.) There is also fairly tame mountain hiking above Dali, after either walking up the mountain stairs or taking the cable car. Average daily high in Dali is 16C in December with average low of 3C. Going higher (Zhongdian and Jade Dragon Snow Mountain) will be much colder.

Have a great time, any way you go. We will be back to Yunnan soon before the tourists overrun the entire province.