surfmom

I'm in the planning paralysis stage. argh.

We are a family of 5, traveling to Stockholm next Spring. Since we have 10 days, I thought we'd add on St. Petersburg/Moscow. We will spend about 4-5 days in Stockholm and about 2-3 days each in St. Petersburg and Moscow for a total of about 10 days.

My original plan was to fly into Moscow/St. Petersburg and return out of ARN.

here is the paralysis part. We live in the Philly area. Do I:

RT: PHL-ARN (Stockholm) - PHL via UsAir for $826 (incl. taxes) = $4,130
=> good flights times, easy in and out of PHL, requires us to lose extra travel time since not flying into Moscow/St. Petersburg initially on same ticket.

Multi: JFK - MOW or LED/ ARN-JFK via Finnair for $732 (incl. taxes) = $3,660
=> tight connections in Helsinki outbound, requires driving to JFK (which adds significant time) ... does the savings of going to JFK make the airfare make sense vs. PHL ? ; flies directly into LED or MOW

Multi: PHL - MOW/ARN - PHL via USAir for $999 = $5,000 or
=> 4 hour connection in Zurich (which is good if don't worry about delays; bad to sit in airport); late arrival in MOW (5pm); easy to get in and out of Phily; flies directly into 1st city; 767 en route to Zurich instead of A330 (we like the in-seat screens!)

Multi: PHL - LED / ARN - PHL via UsAir for $1,041 = $5,205
=> flies through Munich - good connections; most expensive option; long day of traveling (4pm arrival)


I HATE MAKING THESE DECISIONS!

If this makes it easier or harder... the kids saw the jet hostel in Stockholm and are totally geeked to stay there - so a late arrival into Stockholm or early departure would be okay.

Should we consider taking the USAir flight and arriving in Stockholm - renting a car and doing something in the archipelago on day 1 and then fly out to MOW or LED the next day ? Does that make sense ? And then add the Stockholm city portion to the end ?

any and all help is appreciated.

travelgourmet

Well, which side of Philly do you live on? Just how much extra driving is it to Philly? Because the savings is pretty significant.

Other thoughts:

1) Don't worry about the "tight" connection in Helsinki. The airport is small and connections shouldn't be a problem.

2) Four hours in ZRH is rough. Too tight to head into the city for anything other than turning around, and the airport itself is dull and the food options are expensive - and this can add up with a long layover.

3) Bear in mind that the extra flight to LED or MOW will push up the PHL-ARN trip by $500 or more.

Personally, I'd seriously consider the Finnair itinerary. The savings looks to be at least $1000 over the other options.

surfmom

travelgourment, thanks for wading through everything.

We are about 30 minutes from the airport in Philly - that is our "home" airport. According to mapquest, we are 2 1/2 hours from JFK - obviously, you have to allow for traffic, too! The ride there isn't the problem... we're all excited... its the trip home. We could take a car service (which the kids would love for the first 30 minutes), but that will be about $300 each way.

I guess what I'm struggling with is the money saved worth the time spent to go to JFK ? Is the time saved on ground in Philly worth the time lost on ground in Stockholm ?

point #3 is the frustrating one...

Gardyloo

Would it be easier to fly out of Newark instead? I've used EWR for trips to (suburban) Philly pretty often.

Reason being, and without knowing your dates, I can see $704 per person in May, Newark - Copenhagen - Moscow outbound, with a 2-hour layover in CPH (change from Continental to SAS) then Stockholm - Newark nonstop on the return (also Continental.) SAS can take you from LED to ARN for $130 one way (and you could ride the train from Moscow to St. Petersburg.) So all in that would be around $834 per person, with pretty convenient timing. You might be able to leave your car in a long-term lot at EWR for less money than a car service.

A straight EWR-ARN-EWR round trip (Continental) is $766 (I know, don't expect airfares to make sense) but would be very quick. Then I'm seeing ARN-SVO//LED-ARN on SAS for $269, all nonstops. Faster but more money than the above.

surfmom

ok, gardyloo, I'm impressed. But I can't replicate the fares ? Does that include taxes ?

I agree EWR is easier than JFK ... when I originally started this journey, EWR wasn't much cheaper than PHL.

Our dates of travel are W, 5/25 (or Th, 5/26) and return Sun, 6/5 (or M, 6/6 if Finnair since they don't have the early connection that works on Sundays).

Going to itasoftware, I'm seeing EWR-CPH-SVO and return ARN-EWR direct (always a bonus) on Continental and SAS for $1,019 incl taxes.

We are planning on taking the train between Moscow and Leningrad, oops, I mean St. Petersburg, so you have the other portion correct.

what am I doing wrong ?

Gardyloo

I'm sure the difference is in the dates. I was looking earlier in the month, since all you said was "spring" in your OP.

surfmom

duoh. I was hoping there was a magical little 'I'm special' button that only you knew about.

: )

Jeff_Costa_Rica

What about eliminating Russia entirely from the trip? If I had 10 days, I'd concentrate on just Sweden, or maybe Sweden and Denmark, or Sweden and Norway, and get around by rail. Obviously, you know the trip you want, but I'd keep it simpler with a flight to and from ARN and leave it at that. It would be one thing if your destination country were Finland, in which case, a train ride to St. Petersburg is an easy jaunt. That's not the case with Sweden.

Just a thought.

usernameistaken

No opinion on the flight but I did the exact same dates to Scandinavia from May 25 to June 5, 2007. We did Copenhagen, Norway (Oslo, the train to Balestrand, ferry to a lighthouse in Maaloy, ferry & bus to Alesund, bus + train to Stockholm, 3 days in Stockholm).

I politely disagree with Jeff - I would definitely to Russia! Norway was gorgeous but the spectacular scenery may be lost on kids. If I were you, I might skip Moscow and instead take the boat from Stockholm to Tallinn and then head to St Petersburg from there. Stockhom is enchanting and the Skansen will be a treat if you have kids. From what i have heard, Tallinn is absolutely charming and affordable, and St Petersburg is magical and not-to-be-missed whereas Moscow is a complete nightmare and should be avoided. The Tallin/Moscoc/St Petersburg info comes from my Belarusian friend who visited those areas last August.

Happy travels!

Bear in

surfmom

thanks for the ideas, Jeff and username.

We thought about eliminating Russia and I admit, for purely selfish reasons, I want to go there. I don't know the next time we'll be in that "part" of the world - I expect the next 5+ years to be Switzerland, Italy, or even France again. This past summer, there was an overnight ferry that went from Stockholm to St. Petersburg. It is questionable if it will still be going next summer, but if not, we can easily fly.

When I mentioned Russia, Mr. Surf's eyes lit up and he was very interested. Since vacation is about all of us, that was encouraging to me.

I loved the fjords of Norway, but I think the kids would be bored. I think they will love Skansen, the Vassa museum, the "royal" piece of it. Originally, I only planned to add St. Petersburg and maybe rent a car and spend a few days in the archipelago. I'm basically taking those days away and going to Moscow instead.

Why Moscow ? Well, there are a couple very specific reasons - 1) I never stood in line and saw Lenin. Morbid I know, but it is one of those 'once in a lifetime' things and I want to do it while he is still there. 2) I think the kids would like the Faberge eggs and they are in Moscow. 3) I think little Surf would love the Cosmonaut Museum which is new (he *loves* the Air and Space - both of them!).

I still haven't booked flights, although I've narrowed them down. I'm deciding between

Delta = direct to Moscow, direct from Stockholm.
+ major bonus being direct.
- old crappy 757's/767's (not so much a big deal on way over when we sleep, but the little surf's liked their own screen last time!)

Finnair = connect through Helsinki
+ A330's. Little surfs really like it.
- connection.

I should probably pull the trigger soon.

harryi

you should look up earlier online,and seach some deals

RainyDay09

surfmom, do you have visas to go to Russia?

surfmom

rainyday, yes, we do need visas.

The way I understand it is if you come into Russia and stay on a cruise ship (ie Baltic Cruise), you are covered under the ship's "blanket visa" or something.

If you come in individually, you must first get an "invitation" - this comes from a hotel when you get reservations. You submit this "invitation" along with paperwork for the visa and you receive a visa. I'm sure it is more complex than that, but that is the basic process.

I still haven't booked flights yet. still having angst over it. Need to make a decision!

RainyDay09

There is so much to do in Stockholm. Personally, I would probably just add another destination in Scandinavia. I am from the former Soviet bloc and Moscow seems overwhelming for a 3-day trip with kids. Just the culture shock and the gruff attitude alone would dissuade me from adding it to an overseas trip. But, I am making some bad decisions myself, according to some Fodorites, so take it with a grain of salt... What about Tallinn?

dutyfree

The Vasa museum in Stockholm is at least a half day to see-fabulous and has a nice restaurant for lunch within the museum overlooking the water!

Odin

Moscow is a great place for kids, lots to see and do. Moscow State Circus, Gorky Park (not the rides but the spaceship), some metro stations which are ornate, St Basil's interior, the Armoury in the Kremlin, the flea market at Izmailovo etc. Kids cope with the culture shock - it's the adults with pre-conceptions, misinformation and old memories of the Soviet era that have a problem with Moscow & Russia in general.

However whether there is too much to see in 10 days is another matter - 10 days in either Scandinavia or Russia might be preferable than trying to combine a complex itinerary that includes visas & train tickets (don't underestimate the cost of getting those).

surfmom

Ok, I thought I'd update everyone with what our final plans are.

We've added Norway instead of Russia and this is what we came up with:

EWR - BGO (via Oslo- 2 hr. layover)
ARN - EWR
=> ~$700 on SAS

By driving to EWR, we are able to get direct flights (or one connection to BGO). We have a 2 hr. layover in Oslo (could be too long, but the other options were 45 minutes in CPH or 4 hours in CPH).

Instead, we are flying into Bergen, renting a car and driving to Oslo. Spending a few days in Oslo and then flying to Stockholm.

I decided to eliminate Moscow and St. Petersburg. As much as I think we would have fun and learn a lot, there were a few factors that came into play:
1) language barrier. can be overcome, but would take some prep work on my part.
2) travel hassle. too many stops, lose too much time in the process.
3) kids. They would learn a lot and see a lot, but it would take a HUGE amount of prep work on my part. Its the control freak part of me.


Now, its on to hotel booking (grrrr for 5 people!)

Cranachin

Too bad you will not be there a week earlier. May 17 is Constitution Day in Norway (their national holiday) and a very colorful celebration.

June 6 is National Day in Sweden, but it looks like you are leaving just a bit too early for it. I hope that if you are leaving on the 6th itself you will not have trouble getting to the airport (and that you leave late enough to enjoy a little of the festivities).

RainyDay09

Thanks for the update! Very exciting! Like like like. I am curious to hear about your experience in the fjord country.