clevelandbrown

A couple of papers I read had articles today about TSA/customs (it was unclear whether it is one, the other, or both) demanding that people give them access to data in their electronic devices (cell phones, music players, computers, etc) to the extent that selected people have to turn on the devices, provide passwords, and apparently disencrypt anything they have encrypted. Sometimes the devices are taken to another room without the owner, and sometimes actually seized with the "promise" that they will be subsequently returned.

In my opinion, newspaper articles are often inaccurate, but these articles seem to say the authorities are checking what calls have been made, what emails have been sent, any financial information, and of course, whether any of your music is from unapproved sources. Apparently some companies are so concerned that they have their employees remove all company data from their laptops, and restore it from the internet once the employee has navigated through the government whitewater. I know companies have a lot of legitimate data they consider proprietary and don't want to risk its being disclosed by some government screener.

A few years ago, I wouldn't have believed this could be done, but apparently it is acceptable government activity in the brave new world we have created.

Has anyone here had to deal with this activity? I'm really reluctant to disclose any of my passwords (apparently the screener watches while you enter it) and its a lot of work to create and remember new passwords, but apparently if you don't fully cooperate, they just make you miss your flight. I'm probably doomed because I carry a couple of cartoons that don't show President Bush in the best light, and if Hillary gets elected, I'll probably end up in a concentration camp.

fmpden

I would like to read the documentation. This sounds pretty phoney.

clevelandbrown

http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/06/
AR2008020604763.html?wpisrc=newsletter

Washington Post, February 7, 2008, if the link (which apparently has a mind of its own) doesn't work. The article title is Clarity Sought on Electronics Searches, if you want to do an internet search.

luv2cthings

http://tinyurl.com/2zsjsc

fmpden

WOW !!!! Double WOW WOW !!!! That should be required reading for everyone. And who do we thank for this huge invasion of personal liberties and property?

AAFrequentFlyer

Customs - I don't mind. They are protecting our country and they ALWAYS had the right to search anything they wanted. It's part of the deal if you want to return to/visit our country.

TSA - no need, no real reason, no constitutional right. I hope somebody takes them to court and I only hope that our Supreme Court will get a chance to rule on this issue at some point.

AnthonyGA

Amazing what people are willing to give away when they allow themselves to be ruled by fear. No wonder so many dictators throughout history have depended on it. Looks like the United States is following the same path.

AAFrequentFlyer

Customs - in every country, has a right to search everything and anything. That's been the rule for centuries. You are crossing borders and the country in question has the right to know what if anything you are bringing in, is against it's laws. Nothing to do with being "like a sheep because of some kind of war, terrorism, drugs, etc."

Electronic snooping is part of the deal.

AnthonyGA

How often has Customs gone through your wallet, business papers, or personal letters?

AAFrequentFlyer

That's not the point. The point is that they have the right and it has been that way for centuries.

CBP officers' border search authority is derived through 19 U.S.C. 1467 and 19 C.F.R. 162.6, which states that all persons, baggage and merchandise arriving in the CBP territory of the United States from places outside thereof are liable to inspection.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/admissability/

AnthonyGA

Information is not the same as baggage and merchandise. There's no legitimate reason to examine your personal correspondence or telephone/address book, and I don't know of any legal authority to do so.

If your identity is stolen because TSA or Customs carelessly examined your personal information, you'll be in even worse shape than if you refuse to let them look.

AAFrequentFlyer

I believe I did state my feelings about TSA - IMHO, they should not have the right.

If we're still talking about customs, then you're way off. They have the authority to strip search you, to empty your luggage, check your laptop (child pornography, illegal drug contacts, human smuggling, etc..).

Every country that I have been to and I will visit soon has the same laws on the books. Nothing to do with your assertions. Sorry but your understanding of border control/protection is way off the map.

fmpden

So what you are saying, AA, is that if I return to the US with a file folder which contains a list of my stocks, bank account numbers, and maybe some personal information about my family and an address book, the custom officers have a right to seize that material under the heading that just maybe I had contact with a terrorist. If that is acceptable then why not just randomly stop people and search them. Sure, in time, we would catch one or two bad guys.

AAFrequentFlyer

Do you travel internastionaly? Customs does pull out people randomly and they do check out everything about the person if they feel like it. It's their job and whithin their right. Until they say "Thank You," and let you in the country, you are not in the country and you don't have the same rights as you will once you're outside the customs doors.

That's true for any country that I know of.

fmpden

I am not going to get into who has traveled the most but we have traveled extensive since 72 and have never encountered anything that you have described either going or coming. As an American citizen I am not comfortable in giving up rights under the disguise of enhanced security.

AAFrequentFlyer

Customs always, from day 1 had the right to randomly pull an arriving passenger(s), citizen(s) or not, and go as far as they want with their inspection. This procedure did not start after 9/11. The laws, allowing customs to search anything, everybody, were on the books for centuries.

I'm amazed at your lack of understanding this simple concept.

AAFrequentFlyer

It is not the intent of CBP to subject travelers to unwarranted scrutiny. Let me assure you that CBP inspection procedures are designed to facilitate the entry of U.S. citizens and aliens who can readily establish their admissibility. CBP officers must determine the nationality of each applicant for admission and, if determined to be an alien, whether or not the applicant meets the requirements of the Immigration and Nationality Act for admission to the United States. CBP officers may, unfortunately, inconvenience law-abiding citizens in order to detect those involved in illicit activities. We are especially aware of how inconvenient and stressful the inspection process may be to those selected for inspection. In such cases we rely heavily on the patience, understanding, and cooperation of the traveler.

Speaking with travelers and closely examining their documentation are some of the ways we look for mala fide or improperly documented travelers. We rely upon the judgment of our individual CBP officers to use their discretion as to the extent of examination necessary. However, CBP officers are expected to conduct their duties in a professional manner and to treat each traveler with dignity and respect.

CBP Officers use diverse factors to refer individuals for targeted examinations and there are instances when our best judgements prove to be unfounded. Although CBP does use information from various systems and specific techniques for selecting passengers for targeted examinations, a component of our risk management practices is the use of a completely random referral for a percentage of travelers.

http://www.customs.gov/xp/cgov/trave..._to_search.xml

fmpden

What a ******* pile of double speak!!! And please don't insult my intelligence by "suggesting" this is standard operating procedures that have been in place for years. You can spin it anyway you want or put on your blinders and rose color glass --- but it has changed and the change is significant since 9/11.

AAFrequentFlyer

It's clear to me now that it's you that has blinders on, but whatever...

AAFrequentFlyer

§162.6 Search of persons, baggage,
and merchandise.
All persons, baggage, and merchan-
dise arriving in the Customs territory
of the United States from places out-
side thereof are liable to inspection
and search by a Customs officer. Port
directors and special agents in charge
are authorized to cause inspection, ex-
amination, and search to be made
under section 467, Tariff Act of 1930,
[T.D. 72–211, 37 FR 16488, Aug. 15, 1972]