Ryanair Discriminates
Jul 17th, 2002, 06:56 AM
#1
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Ryanair Discriminates
RYANAIR DISCRIMINATES AGAINST U.S. MILITARY
In May of this year my husband and I flew to Dahmstadt, Germany, to visit our daughter and son-in-law who are both sergeants in the U.S. Army. We planned on taking them to London with us for a short vacation. We purchased tickets for four from Ryanair a month in advance for a round-trip flight from Dahmstadt to London. To our surprise and horror, when we arrived to check in we were turned away as our daughter and son-in-law did not have passports. Members of the U.S. military are welcomed into all NATO countries without a passport needing only military ID and valid leave papers, and airlines also have always accepted these forms of ID. We were told that Ryanair had changed their policy three weeks ago and no longer allowed U.S. military personnel on their flights without passports “for security reasons.” We appealed to the highest Ryanair authority at the airport only to be told, “no passport, no ticket, no exceptions,” and that people were turned away “every day.” Because Ryanair was not responsible enough to notify us (by phone, mail, or internet) of their change in policy our vacation was almost ruined. Three cheers to Lufthansa for offering us discounted last minute tickets and treating us extremely well both in the airport and on the flight. Why Ryanair would choose to discriminate against the U.S. military is baffling to us. Lest they forget, the U.S. military’s presence in Europe is to protect each country’s security and freedom, including theirs. Perhaps they felt they had nothing to lose as they did not refund our money. We think they have lost their good name.
Russell and Stephanie Hansen
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
USA
In May of this year my husband and I flew to Dahmstadt, Germany, to visit our daughter and son-in-law who are both sergeants in the U.S. Army. We planned on taking them to London with us for a short vacation. We purchased tickets for four from Ryanair a month in advance for a round-trip flight from Dahmstadt to London. To our surprise and horror, when we arrived to check in we were turned away as our daughter and son-in-law did not have passports. Members of the U.S. military are welcomed into all NATO countries without a passport needing only military ID and valid leave papers, and airlines also have always accepted these forms of ID. We were told that Ryanair had changed their policy three weeks ago and no longer allowed U.S. military personnel on their flights without passports “for security reasons.” We appealed to the highest Ryanair authority at the airport only to be told, “no passport, no ticket, no exceptions,” and that people were turned away “every day.” Because Ryanair was not responsible enough to notify us (by phone, mail, or internet) of their change in policy our vacation was almost ruined. Three cheers to Lufthansa for offering us discounted last minute tickets and treating us extremely well both in the airport and on the flight. Why Ryanair would choose to discriminate against the U.S. military is baffling to us. Lest they forget, the U.S. military’s presence in Europe is to protect each country’s security and freedom, including theirs. Perhaps they felt they had nothing to lose as they did not refund our money. We think they have lost their good name.
Russell and Stephanie Hansen
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
USA
Jul 17th, 2002, 05:20 PM
#4
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You are missing Ms. Hansens point - Ryanair changed its policy after the ticket had been purchased and did not inform them of the new policy. A full refund should have been due. That being said, why do they not have passports at all? When we resided overseas, it was far easier to use our passport which is a universally recognized form of ID than to use orders and military ID and risk having a border guard not familiar with them.
I agree Ryanair dropped the ball in your case. I would hesitate to call it discriminatory of the US military though as it is for security reasons.
Vanessa
I agree Ryanair dropped the ball in your case. I would hesitate to call it discriminatory of the US military though as it is for security reasons.
Vanessa
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:01 AM
#5
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Whoever told you that one can enter the UK with just a military ID card was wrong. I have lived in Germany on and off for the last 15 years. I was active duty and came back as a contractor. One could not use a military ID card to enter the UK in 1987 and it is still the same. This information is public knowledge, and all you had to do was check the state dept. website. How is it Ryan Airs responsibility to inquire if you have a passport when purchasing a plane ticket. Your daughter and son in law get a paycheck and a passport costs a hundred bucks. So instead of taking responsiblity for their lack of proper id, blame it on the airlines. That attitude is so typical of Americans. For some one who has spent time in Darmstadt, you sure can't seem to spell it...As for that comment about the US military being in Germany to protect the Germans and other europeans boy are you full of shit. The military is here because it is a strategic post that is a gateway to the middle east. Those tickets are dirt cheap so you are out a few bucks, big deal....So next time you start a thread about discrimination get your facts straight...clearly your daughter and son in law are to blame for not having passports and you are the poster child for not taking responsibility for ones' actions and getting the facts.
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:29 AM
#6
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Oh Please !!!
This drivel is all over the internet
Ryanair is not part of the US military. They should not be bullied to compromise their security by anyone (remember the appalling lack of security on various American airlines on Septmember 11th)
Why can't Americans carry passports just like everyone else ?.
This is just an "Ugly American" rant
Well done Ryanair
This drivel is all over the internet
Ryanair is not part of the US military. They should not be bullied to compromise their security by anyone (remember the appalling lack of security on various American airlines on Septmember 11th)
Why can't Americans carry passports just like everyone else ?.
This is just an "Ugly American" rant
Well done Ryanair
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:52 AM
#7
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Can't we just be nice to each other? This threads seem to bring out the worst in all of us.....I was under the impression that the US military has been in Germany since WWII, not just for the gateway to the middle east. So what if the US is in Germany just to get to the middle east, the pilots that flew into the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon were from the middle east. And, you shouldn't say shit on these threads the Fodor Police may not like it.
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:05 AM
#8
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I love researching situations such as this. Basically, since at least 1971, members of some military (including US/NATO) are permitted to enter the UK without a passport. But this only applies when serving in an official capacity, not as a tourist.
Thus, your kids did not have proper documentation to enter the UK, although they were OK in Germany as that was their posting. And, as it is always the traveler's responsibility to have the proper travel documents, Ryanair was therefore correct in not transporting them; to do so would have made them responsible for deporting the kids back to Germany or the US.
Note further that the only authority in this matter is the UK Home Office. If your kids relied on anyone in the military or US government to advise them, they were wrong.
Whether UK authorities permitted entry after your Lufthansa flight is irrelevant.
Reference: http://194.203.40.90/default.asp?PageId=1124 To wit:
"Section 8(4) of the Immigration Act 1971 exempts from immigration control certain members of armed forces.
"A person is to be regarded as exempt from control (except for the provisions relating to deportation) so long as he is:
" . a member of the home forces subject to service law;
. a member ... who is undergoing or due to undergo training in the United Kingdom ...;
. serving or posted for service in the United Kingdom as a member of a visiting force including NATO forces - see ANNEX A;
. serving or posted for service as a member of an international headquarters or defence organisation."
Thus, your kids did not have proper documentation to enter the UK, although they were OK in Germany as that was their posting. And, as it is always the traveler's responsibility to have the proper travel documents, Ryanair was therefore correct in not transporting them; to do so would have made them responsible for deporting the kids back to Germany or the US.
Note further that the only authority in this matter is the UK Home Office. If your kids relied on anyone in the military or US government to advise them, they were wrong.
Whether UK authorities permitted entry after your Lufthansa flight is irrelevant.
Reference: http://194.203.40.90/default.asp?PageId=1124 To wit:
"Section 8(4) of the Immigration Act 1971 exempts from immigration control certain members of armed forces.
"A person is to be regarded as exempt from control (except for the provisions relating to deportation) so long as he is:
" . a member of the home forces subject to service law;
. a member ... who is undergoing or due to undergo training in the United Kingdom ...;
. serving or posted for service in the United Kingdom as a member of a visiting force including NATO forces - see ANNEX A;
. serving or posted for service as a member of an international headquarters or defence organisation."
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:29 AM
#9
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Way to go travel professional. Thanks for taking the few minutes to the state dept. regulation. For some folks they will always have to blame someone else for their poor planning. It is also ridiculous to try and say that they should have been exempt because they are in the military. Big deal, life is about choices and they choose to serve their country. That still doesn't relieve them of the responsiblity of having a passport. Also, as prior service the military is based on rules and regulations, so why they would take issue with this one is baffling. I realize that the folks were disappointed but these issues are not open to debate or negotiation. Thanks!!!
Jul 22nd, 2002, 01:09 AM
#12
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My husband, who is active duty, and I have been in Germany for the past two years. We both had to get passports before coming over here. Obviously, we would be needing them! It's basic common sense. We take advantage of Ryanair's inexpensive travel opportunities in Europe. Thank you Ryanair!
Jul 25th, 2002, 01:37 PM
#13
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CLARIFICATION OF RYANAIR DISCRIMINATES
Thank you to all who took the time to reply to my posting. Many of you spoke about what “seasoned travelers” should know. My husband and I reside in the U.S. are not seasoned travelers, nor are our children. The only other country we have visited is Canada with which we have an open boarder. My husband and I had valid passports. Our children could have gotten them if they had been told they needed them. However, they were told by superiors and others who had traveled within Europe they were not needed. All other airlines we talked to after the incident accepted military ID. British customs accepted military ID. You may not be aware but military ID is a higher grade ID than a passport. Do you not think the U.S. military does background checks on the people who enlist? I can assure you they did on my daughter! Athough my family is out well over $1000 for 8 plane tickets instead of 4 and a wasted hotel night in London--and we would gladly pay that much again for the opportunity to see Europe--this complaint is not about money but about responsibility and respect. If a company makes a major change in policy I believe they are responsible for at least posting such information on their website and notifying customers who could be affected. I also believe they should honor tickets under the policies that were in effect when they were purchased. I also believe that if they were told they would get a refund when they were not allowed to check in they should have gotten a refund. And lastly, if a company treats me differently from the way I am treated at all other similar companies, I believe that is discrimination
Thank you to all who took the time to reply to my posting. Many of you spoke about what “seasoned travelers” should know. My husband and I reside in the U.S. are not seasoned travelers, nor are our children. The only other country we have visited is Canada with which we have an open boarder. My husband and I had valid passports. Our children could have gotten them if they had been told they needed them. However, they were told by superiors and others who had traveled within Europe they were not needed. All other airlines we talked to after the incident accepted military ID. British customs accepted military ID. You may not be aware but military ID is a higher grade ID than a passport. Do you not think the U.S. military does background checks on the people who enlist? I can assure you they did on my daughter! Athough my family is out well over $1000 for 8 plane tickets instead of 4 and a wasted hotel night in London--and we would gladly pay that much again for the opportunity to see Europe--this complaint is not about money but about responsibility and respect. If a company makes a major change in policy I believe they are responsible for at least posting such information on their website and notifying customers who could be affected. I also believe they should honor tickets under the policies that were in effect when they were purchased. I also believe that if they were told they would get a refund when they were not allowed to check in they should have gotten a refund. And lastly, if a company treats me differently from the way I am treated at all other similar companies, I believe that is discrimination
Jul 25th, 2002, 03:22 PM
#14
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Stephanie, I just looked up the FAQ's for Ryanair and they require for photo ID for the UK (valid passport, driving licence, international student ID card, OR National ID Card). If they accepted a driver's licence then I agree they should accept an active duty military ID since it does have a photo, but it's not listed. It looks like your daugher and son-in-law could have presented them with a driver's licence. I understand the frustrations. Boy, you have me researching this : ) I've been reading about the refund and the only thing I see is a refund for is flight cancellation so they shouldn't have told you you'd get a refund. Btw, I was corrected. My husband said he wasn't required to get a passport to come over here. He did it to make traveling easier. It was two years ago and I forgot about that. One last note...the comment on the military ID being a higher grade ID than a passport...not sure about that.
I wouldn't rely on it when traveling in a different country. You just never know...
I wouldn't rely on it when traveling in a different country. You just never know...
Jul 26th, 2002, 07:07 AM
#15
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The responsibility for traveling with the proper documents always rests on the traveler.
Stephanie is correct that when policy changes it should be publicized. In this case, the policy is that of the British Home Office, not of Ryanair, and the requirements were duly posted on their Web site, as seen above. The Home Office is not required to go out and actively TELL travelers their requirements, the travelers must come and ASK, in person or on the Web site as I did earlier. To rely on information from any third party is foolish.
By the way, military ID is not a "higher" grade than a passport. They serve completely different purposes. A passport establishes citizenship and is required for entry into many countries. A military ID only says that a person is serving in the military, nothing about citizenship -- and one does not have to be a US citizen to serve in the US military. Background checks are irrelevant, some criminals have passports legally.
Stephanie is correct that when policy changes it should be publicized. In this case, the policy is that of the British Home Office, not of Ryanair, and the requirements were duly posted on their Web site, as seen above. The Home Office is not required to go out and actively TELL travelers their requirements, the travelers must come and ASK, in person or on the Web site as I did earlier. To rely on information from any third party is foolish.
By the way, military ID is not a "higher" grade than a passport. They serve completely different purposes. A passport establishes citizenship and is required for entry into many countries. A military ID only says that a person is serving in the military, nothing about citizenship -- and one does not have to be a US citizen to serve in the US military. Background checks are irrelevant, some criminals have passports legally.
Jul 26th, 2002, 02:57 PM
#18
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I have always heard that ignorance of the law is no excuse. While I am sorry that you were denied boarding of the flight I find your post very upsetting. I do not believe that denying boarding is discriminating.
I find it absurb that so many people blame others for their problems. It is not, nor has it ever been, the airlines responsibility to make sure that those who purchase tickets have the proper documentation. It is up to you, and your adult children, to do this. And in today's world policies can and do change frequently. It is up each individual country to determine what documentation is required for entry. If we followed your theory than every airline in the world could decide what is needed for entry into any country. And each airline could be different.
Even diplomats have diplomatic passports. What makes you think that military personnel are so special that they should just be allowed to travel willy nilly? You can continue to believe that we are in Europe to protect them, but we are their for our interests.
Everyone wants security, but if it inconveniences them then I guess we should just forget it.
I find it absurb that so many people blame others for their problems. It is not, nor has it ever been, the airlines responsibility to make sure that those who purchase tickets have the proper documentation. It is up to you, and your adult children, to do this. And in today's world policies can and do change frequently. It is up each individual country to determine what documentation is required for entry. If we followed your theory than every airline in the world could decide what is needed for entry into any country. And each airline could be different.
Even diplomats have diplomatic passports. What makes you think that military personnel are so special that they should just be allowed to travel willy nilly? You can continue to believe that we are in Europe to protect them, but we are their for our interests.
Everyone wants security, but if it inconveniences them then I guess we should just forget it.
Jul 27th, 2002, 07:20 AM
#19
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Pro Traveller
I don't remember for sure but i think it was when i was going on a cruise ship out of Florida and it was several years ago and of course alot of things have changed. In my opinion one should never go without a passport- period!!! I don't go across the boarder to British Columbia without it.
I use my military ID as a backup.
The airlines are always changing rules so i call them 3 or 4 different times to make sure i get the same answer atleast 3 times from 3 different people on any subject. There have been many times i have been given the wrong information from beginning airline employees, I don't fault them since they are just starting but it does happen.
I don't remember for sure but i think it was when i was going on a cruise ship out of Florida and it was several years ago and of course alot of things have changed. In my opinion one should never go without a passport- period!!! I don't go across the boarder to British Columbia without it.
I use my military ID as a backup.
The airlines are always changing rules so i call them 3 or 4 different times to make sure i get the same answer atleast 3 times from 3 different people on any subject. There have been many times i have been given the wrong information from beginning airline employees, I don't fault them since they are just starting but it does happen.
