Don't Fly and Why

Nov 29th, 2001, 08:43 AM
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PS: Ask the insurance companies why life insurance premiums for pilots are so high compared to that for bus drivers, train engineers, and normal mortals.
Nov 29th, 2001, 10:49 AM
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Thank You Jer...

All I was trying to say is that we shouldn't act like government programmed robots and fly because of patriotism.

9/11 changed everything. Don't think for a minute that security is better. Don't feel secure...yet. Don't give in to those big-shot airline executives who get on TV and want you to 'feel' good about flying.

In the meanwhile, show your patriotism by keeping your money in the USA. Patronizing a locally owned restaurant or store is way more patriotic than feeding the powerful airlines.

Airlines are so powerful that they got billions of dollars of YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY by bullying our government. I believe that this figure is $14 Billion dollars. Translated this could be $2 million dollars for every person who died in the WTC.

Why does the govt have to support airlines? They aren't going out of business...they are 'rightsizing'. When demand increases they will get larger.

Dec 6th, 2001, 05:43 AM
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Although I can't entirely agree with the original post, I had hoped that the one positive thing to come out of 9/11 would be that Americans would rediscover/discover train travel. I feel that the tracks, etc. are probably in poor shape, it would be wonderful to see a renaissance of train travel.
Dec 10th, 2001, 04:55 AM
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you say........................

"2. Foreign countries enjoy ripping off tourists. Understand this, we make up alot of your economy. Why don't you treat us better?

6. It would be nice if USA people would fly less. They can see plenty of attractions inside the USA and keep their dollars here. When I hear that foreign economies are hurting because of lack of USA tourists I truly feel that I don't care. Chances are they don't care about us.

Well, As someone who lives in the UK I can vouch for the fact that many people cared very deeply about Sept 11th. We were as horrified as anyone about what happended on that day. However, I find your comments above both mis-guided and arrogant.

Do you not see your attitude - e.g "America is the land of the bountiful and the whole world must respect us" is exactly why these attacks happended? Why MUST you be treated "better"? Because you spend money abroad? Well who doesn't?

I love visiting America - in fact I'm flying to Boston on Wednesday for nothing more than the pleasure of visiting this mostlovely of cities, but I find your remarks insulting and totally unecessary.

Your National Anthem was played at Buckingham Palace as a unique mark of respect! Who says we don't care???

The fact that you spend so little time looking outside the borders of the USA had led you to this problem in the first place. For goodness sake - travel and meet people - its the only way to foster understanding and TOLERANCE!!!

America has been a force for good on many occasions - long may that continue.

Dec 11th, 2001, 11:44 AM
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BLOODY WELL SAID MATE........Have a great trip to your most loved city, and I hope to visit one on your continent in the future..have only made it to Germany so far and loved every minute of it...would love to see England, Manchester and some others as well.
Dec 21st, 2001, 05:47 AM
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Hi Penny

Had a GREAT trip to Boston - wonderful (unseasonal it has to be said!) weather, great food, nice hotel with big room (can recommend the radisson if anyone is interested)and friendly interesting people to talk to.

Couldn't ask for anything more from a quick trip to the US!!

One of my co-workers also flew out to NY on the same day, she also had a really great time (we're both into shopping somewhat!)- we were both touched by the amount of people in both cities who thanked us for visting.

So, if you;re planning a trip to the UK next year, post a message and I'll help with any info I can!!


I only found this site in November this year, so I still feel a bit "new" but....I'd like to say...

Happy holidays to all the other fodorites! And my very best wishes for the new year.

Dec 21st, 2001, 09:52 AM
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A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU AND YOURS. I'm glad you had such a great time on your visit to the States.
Dec 27th, 2001, 08:20 AM
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Steve is an utter moron. Airplanes kill people. It is like saying guns kill people. On occassion people are killed while onboard airplanes and most always it has some sort of human element that is responsible or contributes to the crash. Steve has taken his liberalism too far. I beleive on 9/11 terrorists killed people not the planes. They used a plane as there weapon but it was these animals who did the killing. Steve remember - not even a gun can kill if left alone. It is an unanimated object until it gets into the hand of a human being who then is able to either use it or not as a weapon.
Dec 27th, 2001, 09:59 AM
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More people die in car fatalities than on airplanes. You can drive to the store and be killed pulling out of your driveway. Living in fear and paranoia is not LIVING at all. If you choose not to fly, that's your business, but don't presume to tell the rest of us we are 'nuts' for deciding to do so. Last time I checked I had a mind and a wallet....those are what I use to decide when making travel plans.
Dec 28th, 2001, 05:27 PM
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Here is the latest...

Ney York's governor, who is normally pretty good, no became in my eyes a sell out whore to the airlines with his new 'Keep America Flying' initiative.

Governor, why are you asking people to fly when there is a clear and present danger in the air? Do you value big business over people's lives? Or, are you obligated to them in any way?

Why can't people do some sightseeing near their homes and their relaxing in their homes? It will save them a ton of money and they might discover new things that are not available in a foreign land.

Here is the latest update on security...

I live in upstate New York and drive to Brooklyn daily. I take the NYS Thruway over the Tappan Zee bridge then I take the Madison Ave bridge into Manhattan and then take the Brooklyn bridge into Brooklyn.

There are a gaggle of NY state and NY City police hanging out by the on ramp to the George Wahington bridge from the Deegan Expressway. As I sit in traffic I see countless trucks and cars go over the bridge without being stopped. I cannot help but wonder, "Why are those cops there? Did they thwart anything? Will they ever check a truck out?" I tend to think that they are there to stop traffic onto the bridge if an incident elsewhere happens. It seems like the police are conceding one more incident to prevent a 'Two-fer' or a 'four-fer' like on 9/11.

For non New Yorkers...The FDR drive runs along the East side of Manhattan. At some point it runs under the UN building. There is usually a NY City police car with its lights flashing on the right in the Northbound breakdown area. Last week in traffic I saw the the cop was reading a paper. Yesterday another cop was sleeping, hat pulled over his eyes.

Just like the George Washington Bridge on-ramp I now see a cop by the Madison Avenue bridge every morning, lights flashing on his Ford sedan and all. Again, I never saw him searching anything.

I Brooklyn I work in the Metrotech complex. It has several roads that run under it and several parking garages also underneath. Right after 9/11 some cars were stopped. Now the check points are set up and staffed but the two young guards were listening to the latest rap record as I walked into my office Friday. Some security huh?

My company did a whopping thing to stop a possible? security threat. They prevented non-employees from using out cafeteria. Big deal. The cafeteria is not within the 'employee only' zone. It is a public area with ATMs etc...

All of these security measures described above are within 5 miles of ground zero. Since New York does not take security seriously why should I begin to think that other areas, let alone other countries, do either?

Sorry folks, it will be a long time before I show my patriotism by flying. I will drive to Mammoth Cave, Memphis, and Asheville for my vacation this year. I will not have to change money, go through customs, or deal with foreign idiots employed in the travel industry who pretend not to know English.

FYI... To those who slam me I can gurantee that I flew more than any of you and that I have been to more places. I never even drove more than 150 miles to a destination before. I'll bet that there are many Americans like my self that for years have been subsidizing fat airlines and two-bit foreign tourist ripoff machines who have yet see the sights in their own country.
Dec 29th, 2001, 04:27 AM
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Hmm.. Steve, I'll remember your comments about foreign countries ripping off tourists the next time I get cheated by a taxi driver in NYC or hustled by a shopkeeper in LA. I don't know why you've got this great big chip on your shoulder, but save your diatribes for your padded cell and leave the poor foreign countries alone.

Dec 29th, 2001, 08:43 AM
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I think I understand you better now. You are soooo very close to ground zero and reminded on a daily basis of the events of 9/11. May you be blessed with peace and the feeling of being safe and secure once again. But please remember, we too think about the great loss of human life that day, and how it was accomplished. It was not the foreign countries that tourist like to visit. And none of us have or probably ever will forget that infamous day. May you find peace, and happiness in the New Year.
Dec 31st, 2001, 11:41 AM
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Steve, you saw reading/sleeping cops? Why didn't you take a picture and send to NY Times? You will become famous not only on Fodor's Travel website and get $$$$ you can use to pay off your debts and maybe even more - enough to travel to Europe?
Jan 1st, 2002, 01:59 PM
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So now they've rescinded the requirement that security employees must have high school educations? Yet another flagrant example of the corporate (Republican?) rules-don't-apply-to-us mentality -- the spirit of the legislation to federalize these workers has been circumvented completely.

So my friends, you are still going to be flying without having anyone's checked baggage screened and you are still relying on people too dumb to finish high school responsible for out-witting the next terrorist -- Al Qaeeda or lone maverick -- who decides he's willing to take himself out for the sake of taking out a plane full of people.

And as for all this sanctimonious rhetoric about whether planes or cars are "safer." LORD I'm sick of that stupid, stupid comparison. It is the crudest form of statistical slight-of-hand and is always trotted out by people looking to feel good through shaming others. For example, there's the issue of choice and control -- why not run figures comparing fault -- autodrivers vs. pilots vs. passengers? I don't know about you, but in a car, I'm usually the driver while in a plane, I have yet to be the pilot.

On top of everything else, it's just plain heartless re: those who have lost anyone in any auto or plane crash -- as if someone made a "right" or "wrong" travel decision and paid with their life.

Lookit, you smartmouth finger-shakers, you're just as dead, no matter what the odds were when you got up this morning. In the meantime, if I don't want to fly because I think other people are taking unacceptable liberties with my security, a) I don't think that's a zero-probability consideration and b)I have that right.

As for expressing patriotism by spending money and taking chances? When was that written into the Constitution? What about expressing patriotism by respecting dissent, just for starters?
Jan 2nd, 2002, 01:42 PM
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To ME: Why AREN'T you?
Jan 3rd, 2002, 08:25 AM
Stephanie P.
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Your not paranoid, just observant. Recently a man w/explosive in his shoes got on an international flight. In addition, two cases of people getting past security w/guns. I'd rather just take a car and go on a local trip this year myself and not have to be excessively searched and having to get to the airport at LEAST 2 hours before flight time. Unless you are going 400+ miles, not worth the aggravation.
Jan 11th, 2002, 08:38 AM
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To all of you people pig-piling on Steve: Why so upset? He made some very valid points, especially about being treated like a criminal at airports. He said nothing even remotely racist. Do you all have vested interests in airlines or something? Just what are you so uptight about?
Jan 11th, 2002, 11:18 AM
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Hmmmmmm, no replies. Just as I suspected, y'all have some axe to grind and have to resort to name calling when you have no reasonable objections to the original posting. And BTW, please don't use the term "racist" so loosely. You only harm the legitimate use of the word when you use it in a hysterical manner.
Jan 14th, 2002, 07:46 AM
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Dear xxx,

Reread the original post: "Foreign countries enjoy ripping off tourists." It MAY not be racist, but it sure as heck is xenophobic, a massive generalization, and downright wrong.

That said, there is something wrong with the system in the US. By and large, my worst travel experiences have been at US airports and on US airlines. Have you been to Singapore's Changi Airport? No major lines there. Have you traveled on Cathay Pacific Airways? I've had nothing but first class treatment. Perhaps there's something to be learned from these "foreign countries"...
Jan 17th, 2002, 09:13 AM
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To Wild Bill...

Why do you call me a phycho when you seem to agree with almost everything that I say?

No I am not foreign. I line in NY, not the liberal gutter of NYC, but in beautiful, conservative, upstate NY. What about you? Come on out, troll.

Maybe you know what an AMC Gremlin is because you probably frive one. I forgot about that car until you brought it up. Maybe, Wild Bull, you are the only guy in Texas that cannot afford a Suburban, or a pickup truck. BTW, I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee, about $32,000. I was the only cash customer the dealer had in all 12/01.

Wild Bull, do you work for the airlines or one of their powerful lobbying groups? Are you a much hated Texas oilman?

I like to see these out-of-control industries be reined in. The travel industry, next to the wedding industry, is rather shady, unfair, and just simply frequently a ripoff.

People should save their money by seeing whats around them. THis will also boost the US economy because money is kept at home.

If foreign countries suffer, too bad. Build a good product and the world will buy it. Sitting back waiting for tourists and ripping them off will no longer carry your economy. Do some real work.

Having fewer planes in the air will reduce pollution etc...

Lets see if you have the guts to respond back.......

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