dutyfree

Actually after being a flight attendant for 40 years, I have NEVER seen someone turn down an international upgrade! I actually threw this out on a recent LONDON layover with 12 flight attendants and everyone said the same thing "Sounds like the husband is honked that he didn't get upgraded and is jealous!"
My own husband of 32 years practically mowed me down last year on a similar situation when there was only one business class seat.He turned to me and said with a straight face "since you work business class all the time, I should sit up there instead!"

mrwunrfl

TC, the offered solution was to do it at the airport. OP wants to do it in advance. Apparently, Alitalia is not willing, now, to assign an economy seat to a person with a business class ticket.

davidjac, contact Delta again to see if they have economy award seats available now. I am not clear on what happened or what they told you, but availability comes and goes.

If you asked Delta to assign an economy seat then Delta can't do it because Alitalia is the one who assigns seats, so Delta will send you to them. If you asked Alitalia to change your ticket to economy class then they can't do that because Delta issued the ticket, so Alitalia will send you to Delta.

I asked about the fare class and number of miles used simply to confirm that the story you got from Delta is correct (as far as cabin type and miles used).

mrwunrfl

For example, they said they would charge you the miles for economy, but how many miles were actually taken from the account? What they told you they would do and what they actually did could be different.

PhillyFan

<<You then interpret

You are doing the exact same thing, Improviser. Unless, of course, you are the OP.

<<This thread has now moved to the ridiculous stage of basically calling the OP a liar who does not want to fly with his wife but instead wants an upgrade.

I don't see anyone calling the OP a liar. However, if you read the original post, he does complain about having to sit in coach. Later, he posts that he insisted she stay in business class, but originally he said he asked for her to be downgraded. He says he is happy for her (and he very well may be), but his *actions* at first didn't appear that way.

How can one insist someone remain in a business class seat after they have already been refused a request to downgrade? That decision had been made for them by the airline. (Someone who insists someone remain in business seat doesn't first ask for a downgrade).

It very well may be the OP didn't explain himself well at first, I have certainly guilty of that as well.

<<contact Delta again to see if they have economy award seats available now. I am not clear on what happened or what they told you, but availability comes and goes.

mrwunfl - in that situation, might the OP have to pay a change fee?

Lufthansa did recently go ahead and change a reservation (in our favor) for no fees on a FF award made with USAir points, so davidjac - this is worth a try. Perhaps you will get a more sympathetic agent the second time around.

Improviser

Dutyfree, I see no point in a 'she said, he said' debate over what every individual in the world would do in the same situation or what a flight attendant's husbands would do.

I can only tell you that if it were me that was upgraded and my wife had to sit in cattle class, I would NOT take the upgrade. If it were her that got the upgrade I would insist she take it. Do you understand what I am saying?

"The plural of anecdote is not data". That's the saying that applies to your 'evidence'. What 1 or 12 or 50 flight attendants have and have not encountered is not evidence of what any other individual would do. If I turn down a upgrade and then get on a plane you are working on, you probably aren't even going to know about it.

Some people still see a difference between what a gentleman does and what a lady does. A gentleman would not take the upgrade. A lady is free to take the upgrade.

I still open doors for my wife and I still always walk on the outside when walking on a street, among other things. That your husband would 'mow you down' speaks to his upbringing. You may see your husband and yourself as equal, my wife's smarter than that.

Philly, someone can insist after being refused a downgrade because they have been forced to have time in which to reflect on what they want to do.

First reaction was to sit together. Second reaction was to insist wife take the upgrade. The OP was given a workable solution, to change the seat at the airport or after getting onto the plane. But in the meantime, he decided to insist his wife stick with the ugrade. I don't find that hard to understand at all.

dutyfree

Improviser-I will end this here but I do hear from people the moment they cross the doorway of the airplane about one spouse sitting in coach and another sitting in business class ALL THE TIME! You would be very surprised on how people handle it.

But then I still don't understand why couples sit on the same side of the booth when they are out to dinner as opposed to sitting across from each other so they can talk and chat looking at each other? Just saying...

NeoPatrick

"But then I still don't understand why couples sit on the same side of the booth when they are out to dinner as opposed to sitting across from each other so they can talk and chat looking at each other?"

A couple of reasons:

because (if it's a banquette, one of them would have to be facing the wall rather than facing out into the room.

Because if they are next to each other in a noisy restaurant (MOST restaurants) they can say things quieter and hear each other rather than speak so loudly across the table that everyone else can hear. In fact it makes conversation MUCH easier than having a table between them!

So that if they are people watching, food watching, or admiring the decor, they can do it together -- not having one person constantly turning around to see what the other is talking about.

Because if they are going to share or even taste each other's food -- as many people do -- they can do so much more easily.

But it's funny that a person who doesn't understand why a couple would want to sit together on a plane, would think that same couple would have to look at each other when talking. Kind of a disconnect there, in my book. Can't two people talk to each other without gazing into each other's eyes? Sounds kinda more over the top that simply wanting to sit next to each other on a plane.

davidjac

Thank you Improvisor for your words supporting me. I cannot beleive this has taken on such a life of its own. I want to clarify what I though was very clear:

1. I bot two tickets one with points and one without, Delta used the points ticket for a first class ticket charging me an economy fare.
2. We both enjoy sitting together.
3. My wife did not want to sit alone but I insisted she do so to take advangtage of the situation.
4. The only solution given me by Delta was to cancel both tickets and re-purchase two economy seats paying the entire cost without the ability to use the frequent flyer miles.
5. I was not told that I could make any chnages at the check-in counter. No other solution was made available.
6. Some people enjoy the company of their spouses, others would rather be alone. That is everyone's personal view.

TC. You said the solution was obvious. Well then what is your solution since I do not see it. The fact that you did not specify one makes me assume you actually have none.

Thank you all for the responses.

Davidjac

TC

I thought this was pretty obvious, David.

<i><u>TC on Aug 5, 13 at 1:52pm:</u>
......darn near anyone in coach would make the swap with wifey in Bus Class. Just ask me! I'll do it.

<u>TC on Aug 9, 13 at 2:53pm:</u>
You also say; "So now we are flying for 8 hours apart". As I posted, almost anyone will gladly trade. All you need do is ask at the gate at boarding time. Problem of flying apart - solved.</i>

Maybe you just didn't understand my solution....simpley make an announcement in a loud voice at the gate prior to boarding -- "My wife is sitting in Business Class and she wants to sit in Coach with me. Does anyone from Coach want to trade for her Business Class seat?" Then hang on for the stampede. You seem to be waiting for the airline to solve this for you, when you could easily solve it yourself. I'm sure the airline feels they've done you a huge favor - essentially <u>giving</u> your wife a business class seat. They don't have a lot of motivation to go through the motions of taking it back. Not to mention that they don't really have a process for taking it back. So correcting this "problem" in an official way is almost (if not completely) impossible as you have learned through your conversations. Just do it yourself in an unofficial way and be done with it.

mrwunrfl

So you're original post on July 23 was a rant about a trip already taken or were you looking for a solution to a future trip?

If you are mid-trip now then you can contact Delta NOW to see if they will reissue her ticket as economy. If they can and there is a fee then ask them to waive the fee, or just pay the fee (or not) if they refuse.

If mid-trip then you can contact Alitalia to see if her seat assignment can be changed. Waiting until check-in time is not going to work.

Improviser

Umm, no TC, at the gate may not work. First, many airlines check your passport against your boarding pass at the gate and the name must match.

Second, a general announcement might cause a stampede but in fact the actual number of people David would be interested in trading with is limited to the seats directly next to him, not all economy passengers.

So the only practical approach would be to wait until boarded and then ask the person to his right or left.

Even then, if seated in a row of 3 with a couple next to him, the best he might do is switch to the aisle seat and ask the person across the aisle to trade with his wife.

It is entirely possible that the people sitting next to him will NOT want to be separated either and will refuse the offer. It is highly unlikely his offer will be refused, ONLY if it is a single person sitting next to him.

Dutyfree, yes you hear when they board. I don't doubt that at all. I doubt very much I would be surprised by how people handle it. I have flown on countless flights both on business and personal travel. I'm talking in the 10s of thousands of flights. I am indeed an actual frequent flyer by any definition. But you DON'T hear from those who have already declined an upgrade. Therefore, you don't know how many may have done so.

As for restaurant seating, I think that is simply personal preference. Funnily enough, my wife and I always want the same seat. So I invariably end up sitting in a seat I would not have chosen to sit in if alone. ie. facing the wall for example.

Our preferred seating in a restaurant is neither across from one another nor beside each other but on two adjacent sides of a 4 sided table. 'Kitty corner' in other words. It's more intimate than across from each other but still leaves both with elbow room.

Jeff_Costa_Rica

In a restaurant, old-fashioned etiquette dictates that the woman be seated facing out from the wall so that she can see and be seen. That's the Emily Post rule.

PhillyFan

<<Some people enjoy the company of their spouses, others would rather be alone. That is everyone's personal view.

No one is saying they prefer to be separated from their spouse. (I definitely don't prefer that, and it would be unthinkable to actually purposely book separate seats.)

What we would prefer to do is take advantage of a "free" business class seat! This situation is a *very* rare opportunity to upgrade. Upgrades in this case are rare even for frequent fliers - this is a situation unlikely to ever happen again.

NeoPatrick

Yes indeed, Jeff_Costa_Rica, but MODERN etiquette may suggest that women shouldn't be treated equally with men.

NeoPatrick

Make that "SHOULD be treated equally with men".

dutyfree

Hey guys-the booth comment wasn't one person looking at the wall and another not. It was a wall with a bench or chairs on each side of the table so you both had the same view.

NeoPatrick

Or you mean both had the opposite view, not same, since they are facing different directions, right? Yea. I understand that is sometimes true, but other than in cheap diners, more often (especially in places like New York) the tables are banquettes (as I clearly clarified in my post above) meaning that the alternative to two people sitting on one side and both looking out, is one person against the wall and the other facing the wall. OK?

Besides, the other things like sharing and not having to talk so loudly still apply for diner type booths.

Improviser

NeoPatrick, my wife would never agree that she should be treated equally. Why would she want to downgrade her treatment?

I understood you dutyfree re booths. It's just a personal preference as far as I am concerned. When you say you don't understand it, all you are saying is you haven't considered that some people simply have a preference different from your own.

TC

<I>Improvisor: "I have flown on countless flights both on business and personal travel. I'm talking in the 10s of thousands of flights."</I>

This a curious comment. With some simple math I came up with these statistics to reach only one 10,000.... Not the "10s of thousands" you claim.

1 flight every single day (no time out for holidays) x 27 years = less than 10,000 flights
(7 flights x52 weeks =364 flights per yr. x 27 years =9828 total flights taken)

1 flight every other day (3 flights per week) x 64 years = 10,000 flights
(3x52=156x64=9984)

Improvisor, How old are you? You stated in another post that you learned to touch type. So did I. So I'm guessing that we may be roughly the same age. I'm 64. Have you really been flying 3 times a week since the day you were born?

davidjac

Thanks for all the replies and work that you readers are putting in responding to my original very innocuous question. It is amazing how I engendered such emotions among so many people.

The suggestion that was given for changing seats so that my wife would sit with me has already been fully and correctly answered.

I could only exchange with the person next to me and that person may not want to. I fear flying and so to alleviate that fear I always fly next to the window. It is somehow better for me that way. I do not know even if the flight crew would allow it.

This trip is next May so there is much time left to keep this thread rolling and perhaps break some record for the airline forum. That would be great!

In the meantime, I am perfectly happy to allow my wife who is treated as my equal to sit in first class and take advantage of Alitalia's irrational position. I do not have many favorable views of past Alitalia flights and so expect no changes or help from them.

Again thanks and keep them answers coming.

Davidjac